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libido issues on cruise / reduced erection quality

TrenE

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Nov 29, 2018
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Hello,

I have been cruising for 3 months with 250mg every week. Before I have been at peak on 2g AAS + AI + HGH.
For some weeks now I have been recognizing small but noteable decrease in libido. Now I am facing massive issues in libido (in connection with ED).

I have found recent research on this topic:
"However, surprisingly, a high percentage of men reported de novo sexual dysfunctions, including ED ( 27% ) and decreased libido ( 57% ) when not taking AAS. "

"These findings may suggest that to some degree, the body becomes dependent upon hyper-supplementation of T (suppression of hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis, possible change in androgen receptor density, possible down regulation at nuclear level), an effect that is only recognized after discontinuing. "

"Two of the participants failed to regain erectile function or normal libido despite receiving T treatment."

Impact of anabolic androgenic steroids on sexual function ( 2018 )
Have you been also facing libido/ed issues when lowering your dosage to cruise-dosage or TRT in comparison to higher dosages? I thought only stopping the usage of testosterone will result in such problems and not that lowering also result in these issues.
What can be done despite of increasing testosterone/AAS dosage again or take additionally drostanolone to boos libido and sexual function? Could HCG help while on cruise or TRT?

Thank you very much.
 

Phobos

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Have you had bloodwork done recently?
I would look at E2 and Prolactin levels.
For a quick fix you could try Proviron, if you need extra androgens 100mg per day should be effective in treating the symptoms.
 

TrenE

Bluelighter
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Nov 29, 2018
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E2 and Prolactin levels were always fine to a dosage of 500mg testosterone per week without any libido issues (estradiol 90pg/ml (<44) and prolactin in reference).
So I assume that E2 and Prolactine should no problem on a dosage of only 250mg per week.

I am sure extra androgens will help, but I watched out for a way not to increase or add AAS. Maybe there is no other way out?
 

Phobos

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Androgens increase dopamine levels, if that's the issue stimulant drugs should temporarily fix it but go against recovery in the medium and long run.
 

Swim15

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I’ve been dealing with this for months now although I think my issues are likely due to other things. I have been cruising on lower doses for that period of time however so it’s probably multiple factors.

Since I’ve got other issues going on this may not work but I spent hours mapping out all of the proerectile (and negative) endocrine pathways recently and tried yohimbe to block alpha receptors after failing with cialis. End result is improved, not amazing but way improved, sex drive and zero ED problems/great erections.

Interestingly this only worked with standardized yohimbe bark (GNC brand) and not yohimbine extract. The yohimbine would work for erections but had a much shorter duration and didn’t have the same impact on sex drive so I’m guessing there are other alkaloids in the bark doing something but wish I could narrow down what exactly.

With the bark I get a lot more sides (feels like an unpleasant stim, cold sweats, etc but worth it IMO) but I’ve narrowed it down so that I can take 2/3 of a capsule in the morning and the proerectile effects last all day somehow which also leads me to believe there are other alkaloids playing a roll.

I’d also suggest trialing both the bark and the cialis as it may give you insight into which pathway, if any, is malfunctioning physiologically.

If it’s simply a libido issue, or one of the above fixes the ED but not libido, then the next go-to would be dopamine like suggested. This could be accomplished with stimulants like my favorite go-to adderall but would be better and safer to go with a dopamine agonist like Cabergoline.
 

Swim15

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One other thing I’ve found mildly helpful is having short water test in the mix for whatever reason. I can run a baseline of cyp/e if I want to but I cruise on test phenylprop as it definitely helps a little with keeping sex drive up.

Have had a few friends say the same so may be worth trying.
 

TrenE

Bluelighter
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Nov 29, 2018
Messages
82
Hey @Swim15 thanks for your detailed answer!

Cialis and Viagra did not really help which is frightening (as it improved erections always before). Cabergolin also did not help. Libido is really down at the moment.

I could try yohimbine bark as you mentioned. Maybe it would help to get libido a little bit back or close to "normal" libido in the medium-term, but I guess you get this "super" libido only on higher dosage AAS. It is strange for me that it took up to 3 months on low dosage of testosterone to lose libido.

In the end I know for sure that adding a DHT like drostanalone/masteron would bring back my libido or just increasing testosterone (to increase DHT indirectly). Maybe this is the only real solution to maintain libido (especially this "super" libido) in the long run as we got dependent upon hyper-supplementation of AAS.
 

Phobos

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Hey @Swim15 thanks for your detailed answer!

Cialis and Viagra did not really help which is frightening (as it improved erections always before). Cabergolin also did not help. Libido is really down at the moment.

I could try yohimbine bark as you mentioned. Maybe it would help to get libido a little bit back or close to "normal" libido in the medium-term, but I guess you get this "super" libido only on higher dosage AAS. It is strange for me that it took up to 3 months on low dosage of testosterone to lose libido.

In the end I know for sure that adding a DHT like drostanalone/masteron would bring back my libido or just increasing testosterone (to increase DHT indirectly). Maybe this is the only real solution to maintain libido (especially this "super" libido) in the long run as we got dependent upon hyper-supplementation of AAS.
Increasing your test too much (or adding Drostanolone) would bring up your bad cholesterol, consider that it might mean a heart attack in 15 or 20 years.
But probably not by much if you keep in shape and under 500mg per week.
 

Swim15

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Low doses of DHT shouldn’t impact bloods that much. Should be able to mitigate with lifestyle and/or using a less harsh compound like proviron. Lotta guys cruise on something like 100mg test/100mg mast though.


OP- id try the bark as an alpha blocker. It doesn’t make a ton of sense to me in terms of mechanism that anyone would need high androgen levels to maintain erections. Sex drive I could see a little more but if they are both gone then I’d question the physiology of whats happening. And you could test it as well by introducing a high dose of test prop or ace for a few weeks.

Beyond that, the other thing I could suggest is raising estrogen some as that has made a difference for me in the past and have heard a number of anecdotal reports saying the same. I usually do this by adding 10-15mg if dbol per day and I’ll notice sex drive changes within 48 hours.

I’d go through all of those systematically if I were you to try and narrow it down, starting with the least detrimental on health markers. At the end of the day though quality of life is important and I’d rather live to 60 with good quality of life than 90 with shit quality of life.
 

TrenE

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Nov 29, 2018
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@Phobos Thanks I am controling lipids etc. regularly. Of course an important point when it comes to DHTs.

@Swim15
Yes it seems that yohimbine would not help for massive issues on decreased libido. I am sure short acting testosterone or Dbol will help as it really seems we are used to higher dosages within blasts and therefore peaks in androgens would also help. So in conclusion cruising or going on TRT for more than 2 months will obviously have impact on libido and sexual function which are hard to encounter without even small amounts of additional AAS. Or someone can get used to lower or normal libido as maybe we have forgotten how normal libido looks like as we have been on AAS for longer durstions.
 

Genetic Freak

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Increasing your test too much (or adding Drostanolone) would bring up your bad cholesterol, consider that it might mean a heart attack in 15 or 20 years.
But probably not by much if you keep in shape and under 500mg per week.
On its own LDL is no longer seen as a marker for coronary artery disease..

Eat plenty fats (including saturated), to increase HDL, significantly lower sugar to keep triglycerides within lower range (triglycerides are now seen as a primary marker in CAD)...
 

Swim15

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@Phobos Thanks I am controling lipids etc. regularly. Of course an important point when it comes to DHTs.

@Swim15
Yes it seems that yohimbine would not help for massive issues on decreased libido. I am sure short acting testosterone or Dbol will help as it really seems we are used to higher dosages within blasts and therefore peaks in androgens would also help. So in conclusion cruising or going on TRT for more than 2 months will obviously have impact on libido and sexual function which are hard to encounter without even small amounts of additional AAS. Or someone can get used to lower or normal libido as maybe we have forgotten how normal libido looks like as we have been on AAS for longer durstions.
I wouldn’t necessarily say a lot of that though. Can you be sure that it’s simply due to lower dosages alone? Libido I get but ED doesn’t make sense. I’ve cruises for periods much longer than 2 months before and have never had either of those issues until now, although I think it’s primarily due to other factors for myself.

As far as the bark - I’ve been having what I’d call massive issues. I’m not sure I elaborated enough but I’ve had drastically reduced sex drive the past 3-4 months and the past 4-6 weeks I’ve had 100% zero sex drive. Then for about two weeks from the start of this month I was 100% non functional sexually. I’m on day 3 or 4 of the lower dose yohimbe and everything is back. Drive, sexual aggression, erections, etc. More interested to elucidate exactly what mechanism all of it is occurring through though.
 

TrenE

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Nov 29, 2018
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You are right, I am facing only massive libido issues (this week my sex drive is at zero). I have mixed libido issues with ED as ED refers to organic problems.

I am sure that it is simply due to lower dosages because I have changed nothing else. This is the first time I have been cruising with 250mg for 3 months. Before I always have only lowered the dosage to 500mg per week while cruising. So I guess in the next blast when increasing dosages then libido issues will go away.

It sounds incredible that your libido issues have gone away with just supplementing yohimbe bark as research does not show such strong effects, but I will give it a try. Are you sure that this results can only be caused by yohimbe?
 

Serotonin101

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My first question is:
Are you having any of these problems trying to get off solo? Or is it only with a partner?
 

Swim15

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You are right, I am facing only massive libido issues (this week my sex drive is at zero). I have mixed libido issues with ED as ED refers to organic problems.

I am sure that it is simply due to lower dosages because I have changed nothing else. This is the first time I have been cruising with 250mg for 3 months. Before I always have only lowered the dosage to 500mg per week while cruising. So I guess in the next blast when increasing dosages then libido issues will go away.

It sounds incredible that your libido issues have gone away with just supplementing yohimbe bark as research does not show such strong effects, but I will give it a try. Are you sure that this results can only be caused by yohimbe?
I gotcha. And fortunately/unfortunately I’ve been blown away but it is entirely due to the bark. I’ve skipped days and as soon as I do, I literally could not have sex if I wanted to. Throw it back in and good to go. I know my doc is gonna say the same bullshit as an objection but I’ve pulled it in and out and there’s no way it could be anything else. Only thing I’ve changed recently after months of issues so just glad to have found a temporary fix
 

Swim15

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My first question is:
Are you having any of these problems trying to get off solo? Or is it only with a partner?
Won’t speak for OP but mine have been both - first thing I was curious about as well just looking back at things. I’ve had times where there’s only an issue with a partner so that’s obviously psychological but months of issues with both isn’t (as well as 100% loss of spontaneous erections which I have thankfully gotten back now lmao).
 

TrenE

Bluelighter
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Nov 29, 2018
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@Swim15 I am glad to hear that yohimbe bark helped you that much, massive problems with libido are hard to deal with.

My first question is:
Are you having any of these problems trying to get off solo? Or is it only with a partner?
Hey, I have these problems also solo, thats why I recognized that I am having massive problems right now. There is no reaction to sexual stimuli.

In the past I had similar problems on Tren and Deca, but I learned to encounter them with a DHT like drostanolone or with cabergolin in terms of Deca. In some days I got my libido fully back while staying on Tren or Deca (speaking of cycles of 2g AAS in total). But now I have the same problem with just only 250mg testosterone per week. In my last cruise with 500mg testosterone per week I had no libido issues.
 

Serotonin101

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The next step is blood work. You can "feel" fine and shit be messed up. Anything without evidence is just a guess which could cause more harm than good and you're then essentially throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. Get blood work, it's not expensive, and then we can offer better suggestions based on the results.
 

TrenE

Bluelighter
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Nov 29, 2018
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Guess your right despite the fact that my last blood work was fine some months ago on 2g AAS. Therefore it is hard to believe that now 3 months later something is messed up while cruising. Also I want to blast again soo so I will think about my next steps and keep you up to date also if I have blood work done (with all necessary parameters - E2, prolaktine, progesterone, cholesterol, liver, blood etc. - its up to 200$). Maybe giving yohimbe a try.
 

Swim15

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Since this is for a specific issue you wouldn’t really need to get all that blood work at once.

I’d go with serum and free testosterone as well as a sensitive e2 panel. After that I’d look at prolactin/DHT/SHBG based on the results of the testosterone/e2.

There’s so much that can go into sex drive and function though (dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, NO, and ACh to name a few and potentially a lot more) along with all the typical hormones so I agree that blood are probably the best starting point but they may very well not reveal anything.

At that point you gotta go back to throwing things at the wall and see what sticks which is what I’ve been doing. Gotta love the human body lol
 
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