Opioids Last dose of prescribed suboxone 43 hours ago, Kratom experiment

[darkbinary]

Hey all,




I went to an apothecary yesterday and picked up some kratom (Yes I have a real apothecary near me, hippy town for the win). I have experimented with kratom once before from a different source but never got anything from it because the fiend in me couldn't wait for the WDs to start from the suboxone.


I'm on a high dose 16-20mg a day and sometimes 24mg a day. I've been on suboxone for years but it doesn't work like it once did. All it does now is put me in this hell where I'm stuck with cravings and unable to satisfy them. I don't like the meetings I go to anymore, the groups of people I was close with have either moved away or disappeared. Going to a meeting doesn't make me feel any better anymore.


I've completely wrecked my peripheral vascular system. My jugular veins have recovered and I have access on my feet (but ouch!!) and I really don't want to finish the job or progress to something like the clavicle or femoral. I just so badly need to feel good. I've been stuck in depression, malaise, overall anhedonia with life.

Anyways, basic addict with basic addict cravings and addict thoughts. I've been thoroughly indoctrinated into why my thinking is wrong, can't trust my own thoughts etc. etc. need to go to more meetings, work more steps, need to find inside solutions instead of looking to external factors to cure me because they will eventually fail me. I'm not looking to get fucked up, I just need a mood lift. I've read that kratom can provide energy like caffeine along with some euphoria and pleasant feelings in the body. Maybe if I could get a little reprieve I could eventually start back on my recovery again in earnest but i'm the type of person who is thoroughly rooted in "Once I feel X, I'll do Y" but all the mental health advice I've gotten says "Do Y and then you'll feel X" to which I say fuck that, too much work, If I can take a simple Z to feel X that enables me to do Y that seems much easier although I admit it doesn't seem like any kind of feasible long term solution.


My last dose of suboxone was 43 hours ago. The last time I went through WDs I think it took 5 days for the WD to really incapacitate me but my sense of time might have been off because at the time I was taking other sedative tranquilizers. This is pure torture, the subs don't give me really any of the moodlift and energy they used to give me but I'm still thoroughly addicted to my routine of taking them, the act itself provides minor relief. I know that even at 48 hours the kratom will still be a waste. I'll have to somehow endure for at least another 48 hours, if not 72.

I've tried getting off suboxone in the past for the purpose of going completely clean and I never realize how much it does for me until I don't have it anymore. Even now I notice that the obsession is hitting me with a vengeance and my mood and energy are low.

I obtained a '00' cap of 50x extract they called Golden Buddha from the apothecary and an ounce of dried leaf that they called redwings, it supposed to be one of their stronger leaf varieties with more euphoria, sedation and pleasant body feelings. I don't remember everything I read from their literature, i wish I would have taken pictures so i could refer to what i bought but i basically went for the stronger more relaxing products. I've always been able to get an incredible amount of work done on opiates and be very engaged in whatever activity i set out to do, so energy wasn't exactly what I was going for and I also kept in mind that I would have suboxone withdrawals to cut through first.

I had planned on making the powdered leaf into tea but I'm not sure if I'll have enough time alone to make tea. I may have to just toss and wash, or perhaps get some applesauce and quickly mix it in and eat it. Anyone involved in my life tells me that taking my suboxone and working recovery are requirements and I just can't stand it anymore. They go into fits just by me trying some new herbal tea or taking anything with the purpose of making me feel better/change how i feel.

At any rate, here I am counting down the seconds, trying to listen to music and keep myself occupied but I can't focus on anything except searching in vain for what I can do to speed this whole process along. Suboxone was once a blessing for me, now it's just a huge curse. When I start on it again after this kratom binge i'm going to try my hardest not to go past 4mg/day. I feel like I'm stuck in pseudo-hell. No withdrawals, but I feel mentally lousy and I'm craving bad.

I've read over this post a few times and gone through a portion of the rules for posting around incrimination and such. Back in the day we all just used SWIM, but nothing I've posted about is illicit so I'm hitting post thread. All my meds are prescribed and kratom is perfectly legal where I live. Let me know if I need to change anything and I'll do it.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

The potency of 7 Hydroxymitragine is something like 15-20 times more than morphine but I'm too lazy a shite to look up Ki/pD values right this second. Point being I'm not sure if the Kratom will break through that high of a dose of suboxone and on top of that the rate of elimination can vary fairly widely between people and 7-HydroxyM is a partial agonist so this might be difficult to get an exact answer for but I sure hope you come back with an update and result. Hope you find what you're looking for..

 

[darkbinary]

I actually through much research found some equivalency values for kratoms two primary alkaloids vs other opiates.

From what I've uncovered my one ounce bag of kratom contains about equivalent to 60mg of morphine, plus the 50x extract capsule that puts me somewhere over 60mg of equivalent morphine. I've always had a sensitivity to opiates which is why I got so hooked on them at such an early age. My first ever experience was half of a vicodin after wisdom tooth surgery and I was in heaven. When I've relapsed in the past on traditional opiates, once the withdrawal fully sets in from the subs it doesn't take me much to get me to a happy place.

I may have to consume all I've got, but I think I'm in for at least one good day. I'll make sure to report back later in the week after all is said and done.

In the past a friend of mine who had a similar body chemistry and experience to myself used to IV the 60mg morphine sulfate pills and found it a very pleasurable experience, although the 100mg variety really was the sweet spot but definitely incapacitating which is not what I'm looking for at this time.

If I achieve anywhere near a state of being incapacitated it will turn too many heads and provoke too many questions.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320503011664 No value just a claim of much higher efficacy.

This one claims 30 fold higher than Mytraginine and 17 higher than Morphine,, Pubmed:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15770543

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11082707 ~~ No value just a claim of much higher efficacy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11960505

What is used to make High-octane Kratom extracts:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27752985

Overall the values seem to vary quite a bit.
Both (Morphine & 7 HM) walk like a duck & talk like a duck but one isn't really a duck..I'll be waiting for your update.

 

[exdoper]

What I have done so far is gone from fentnol to sub and plan on stretching out my now 3 mg dose of sub 12hrs every 3rd day that's how I went from doing a lot of fentnol to just 3 mg of sub a day just started using kratom to lift mood and energy and got stronger red kratom for sleeping. Gonna keep on my 3day taper I usually drop a mg or streach out dose every 3 days.
Been feeling okay but the kratom first day was today and helping a lot with mood I'm actually feeling like me again. Been good two years. So far day one with kratom and feeling a lot better day 20 with out pills and any the other junk. Kratom has helped me have best day so far since. Not out of the woods yet but getting better every day. Won't be long now.
Am kinda wondering about how to taper off on the kratom or if I will even have to considering I went thru 4 days of bed ridden hell going from fentnol to sub. Thinking that should be a breeze and I can take it like a man. Lol glad to be feeling better tho and I can say first time was a big success I'll have to see how I sleep gonna take stronger red one with supper and white for mood and energy for day time. Ill post back about how red one works I've done a lot of reading about this and it seems to help a lot of people recover faster and be normal after opiate abuse.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I seem to remember reading that mg for mg 7-HM is basically the same potency as oxycodone (although only up to a certain point). Personal anecdotal experience on my part seems to confirm this. Too bad the stuff is so pricy

 

[darkbinary]

So at about the 72 hour mark I took about half an ounce of kratom along with the double 00 stuffed capsule of 50x extract. I definitely felt it, but it was short lived. I had no idea how much of an iron stomach I would need just to get down the hatch what i managed to. Redosing the next half of the ounce of powdered leaf a few hours later did nothing to bring the warm glow back that I had initially. I ended up feeling pretty sick to my stomach later on in the night and went to bed early.

Being on such a large dose of suboxone for such a long time has my body and brain thoroughly saturated, a minimum of 5 days needs to be waited before trying any other opiates, they just don't work like they should otherwise. Being so disappointed with my kratom experience pushed my buddy over the edge. He is on the same amount of suboxone for the same length of time as I, at the 4 or 5 day mark he went off to the big city and scored a gram of H. He found a couple random people to split it with and they all went back to their place and fixed up. He prefers company when he decides to use and only went into it intending to get a dub, the D man was selling grams or nada though so he took the gram. In the end he thinks he should have been a selfish bastard and took it all back to his lonely hidey hole to fix because the suboxone even after 4-5 days thoroughly dampened the experience. In the end this is probably a good thing, if he would have ended up nodding out somewhere or been noticeably fucked up in some other way it would have provoked questions and gotten him into trouble. Demoralizing isolation is better left well enough alone, it usually comes on its own as part of the territory of heavy opiate use and dependence. In the end, the company was probably a good thing and he knows he made a couple people very happy by choosing to hang out and share with them.

Ultimately, urge satisfied.