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L-Tyrosine

robE

robE

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 17, 2001
Messages
460
Does anyone know much about this one? It can be bought from any ozzie health food store or chemist and helps with the recovery from an E weekend. I searched the net and it seems that its different to tryptophan or 5-HTP. It seems to be more of a complement to 5-HTP...anyone have any ideas on whether it would do a similar thing?
Spose it can't be bad taking L-Tyrosine.
feedback anyone?
Rob.
 
L-tyrosine is the synthetic form of the catechol-amine precursor tyrosine (dopamine and norepinephrine are both classified as catecholamines).
As far as I am aware there are no problems associated with combining l-tyrosine with 5-HTP. It has even been suggested (by a Dr. van Praag) and recommended by others (whose names escape me), that L-tyrosine (or D,L-phenylalanine) be taken with 5-HTP .
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And the Mission is the Mouse...
 
Bootlegger- sorry dude, L-tyrosine is not the synthetic form of Tyrosine, it is one of the 2 configurations of tyrosine. There is D and L configurations of amino acids and are named according to the way the functional groups are arranged around the chiral carbon. All amino acids in protein chains are the L isomer...
Anyways, L-tyrosine is the precursor amino acid for Noradrenaline synthesis. Noradrenaline is a neurotransmitter in the brain which is believed to play a big active role in moods. It is not harmful taking 5htp and L-tyrosine together, the coexist in the body naturally (both found in body fluids)
L-tyrosine is therefore used as a natural way of treating depression my enhancing moods.
It does help with the comedown - you wont get as grouchy - but it wont help with neurotoxicity or 5htp depletion.
Ohh, and Tryptophan is actually more complemented to 5htp as that is 5htp's precursor amino acid!
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"This product may experience some settling, please upturn to re-introduce the juice"
[This message has been edited by RushingRococco (edited 22 April 2001).]
 
No point... L-Tyrosine is a dopamine precursor. Its the dopamine activity that causes neurotoxicity on comedown. Why would you want to take it? Its not needed. You want the 5-htp for the seratonin.
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The woods are dark and deep, and you have miles to go before you sleep...
 
various medical journals report that it *may* be a helpful nutritional agent for controlling anxiety and depression and assisting memory and mental alertness.
For this reason, i usually drop a few tabs when im coming down off my last pill.. not sure if it actually works or not though..
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why drink & drive when you can roll & fly?
 
Hmm I agree - if it relates to dopamine you maybe don't want it when your brain is low on Seratonin.... I believe antioxidants can also help in preventing neurotoxicity by preventing the dopamine oxidising within the neuroreceptors. In this way, the dopamine hopefully doesnt turn into hydrogen peroxide, doesnt burn out the neuroreceptors, and you dont start frying your 'happy cells' ....
Oh my god.. 3 months ago I didnt know what seratonin did, now I'm spouting garbage like this.... It's either a case of 'a little knowledge is dangerous' or 'the net rocks in giving us access to information!!'...
Hehhe...
[This message has been edited by Unk-e Benny (edited 22 April 2001).]
 
Appologies for the off topic rant here, but I couldn't help it.
Can anyone imagine the average piss head caring this much about what goes into their bodies?
wink.gif

Sorry, back on topic now...
smile.gif
 
L-Phenylalanine and L-Tryptophan are
essential amino acids, required via dietary
intake to maintain health. They are used in
the synthesis of many substances in the
body, and are precursors for dopamine/
epinephrine and serotonin respectively.
L- Tyrosine is not an essential amino acid
as it can be synthesised in-vivo from
phenylalanine catabolism involving the
enzyme phenylalanine hydroxylase and
coenzyme tetrahydrobiopterin. NADH and
O2/H2O are also involved.
This is also the normal mechanism the body
uses to regulate levels of phenylalanine.
Tyrosine is the regarded precursor of
epinephrine, via Tyrosine--> Dopa--> Dopamine--> Norepinephrine--> Epinephrine.
As tyrosine can be derived from phenylalanine, both can be regarded as
precursors to both dopamine and epinephrine.
Excesses in these amino acids does not tend
to raise produced neurotransmitters beyond
certain levels, as many routes of catabolism
exist for these when present in excess.
This is not to say that neurotransmitter levels aren't increased by taking these as supplements, it's just that most people (without genetic disorders in amino acid metabolism) can handle excesses without necessarily producing large quantities of neurotransmitters or toxic by-products.
Regarding the three major neurotransmitters, dopamine, epinephrine and serotonin; in
pre/post loading with any of the three
mentioned amino acids, it is obvious that
tryptophan is the most likely to be needed when taking E, as serotonin levels are definitely reduced (used up).
The action of most phenethylamines, cocaine and many tryptamines, while usually having a primary mode of action upon one particular
neurotransmitter, usually also affect the
others.
MDMA is neurotoxic mainly because of a
secondary action of releasing dopamine,while at the same time depleting levels of
serotonin substantially. It is fairly well
known that damage occurs to neurons once
serotonin is used up, a situation that
allows the produced dopamine to enter and
destroy the serotonin neuron via the
reuptake transporter and subsequent oxidation by mono-amine oxidase, a process that produces toxic by-products.
Preloading with L-tryptophan is in my opinion better than 5HTP, as the required enzyme for converting it to 5HTP is only found in certain cells, whilst the required enzyme for producing serotonin from 5HTP(aromatic amino acid decarboxylase)is found in almost every cell.
The reduction in effect from MDMA reported by some users of 5HTP could be explained by the body finding alternative routes to reduce high levels of 5HTP. Raising levels of 5HTP to 100's mgs, may prevent the desired action of turning 5HTP into serotonin by prioritising such elimination routes, rather than serotonin production.
Post loading is a different story, as with levels of serotonin having likely been reduced, the body would probably prioritise replenishment of serotonin. I have personally found Tryptophan works better, and is safe. See your local friendly GP
Taking tyrosine or phenylalanine would not be likely to result in radically increased levels of dopamine for the same reasons; they would most likely be catabolised via alternative routes. The argument that more dopamine may be produced from these supplements because levels of this are used up through the action of MDMA is plausible, but remember initial release of dopamine is a secondary mode of action with lower doses of MDMA ( ~< 120mg ), and quantities produced are much less than with amphetamine.
Dopamine levels, however do not have to be
high to cause neuron damage, if available
serotonin is almost completely depleted.
Much more of a concern is the widely
practiced habit of taking speed with E, as
this would definitely raise dopamine levels
and cause subsequent neuron damage. In such
cases tyrosine and phenylalanine could
definitely raise dopamine, and should be
avoided.
phase_dancer
 
RushingRococco
Your body does have the ability to synthesise l-tyrosine, as it does with all amino acids, with the exception of the eight essential amino acids (isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine).
As far as I am aware, the "L-" only denotes the form which is used by the body (for most purposes.)
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And the Mission is the Mouse...
 
L-tyrosine is one of the two configs of tyrosine... D-tyrosine is not useful to us humans. Levo and Dextro they stand for, and refer to different arrangement of the atoms of the molecule. Dextro can be ignored when talking about humans.
L-tyrosine is a dopamine precursor... dopamine is an adrenaline and noradrenaline precursor.
Main point is that dopamine goes into your seratonin channels when there's no seratonin in them. This is the cause of neurotoxicity. You know how you get skin cancer from the oxidative effect of UV light rays on your skin? Dopamine going into your seratonin channels has an oxidative effect on those channels... hmmmm.
So if you take L-tyr you boost up your dopamine levels... which means more dopamine available to go into your seratonin channels... which means more neurotoxicity.
L-tyr is good to take after having speed, if you haven't had pills. Cos speed causes dopamine release, and by taking L-tyr you can get your levels up to normal a lot quicker. tryptophan (where you form 5-htp and serotonin from)and is an essential amino acid, which means your body can't synthesize it from scratch, and you have to supply the right precursors... or the substance itself
smile.gif
L-tyrosine you can synth yourself, but by pumping the substance ready-made, you cut out the time lag, and hugely increase the available levels. So by taking these supplements you increase the speed of your recovery by a fucking huge amount
smile.gif
Or perhaps even, with correct use, prevent a state of 'recovery' from occurring.
L-tyrosine should be ok to take if you've had a combo of speed and pills (very bad for you cos you're putting dopamine where it can do the most damage, into the serotonin channel area.) But take it AFTER you've restored your serotonin levels!
I'm sure there's heaps of info in the FAQ forum!!!!!!! (and anything that makes it into their has been validated and referenced!)
[This message has been edited by entropope (edited 23 April 2001).]
 
Great post entropope, Agree with all points you mentioned. The importance of taking tyrosine AFTER you replenish serotonin levels as you mentioned and NOT BEFORE should be REALLY EMPHASISED.
Most people I've talked to on this have no idea of the increased potential for neural damage from taking MDMA and speed together. Most assume that the sum of the bad parts cannot be greater than the whole??!!
Perhaps such info should highlighted on pamphlets outlining harm reduction and E
Do you know of any specific research that's been done on the increased neurotoxicity from these or other combinations?
phase_dancer
 
I questioned the issue of taking amphetamines with MDMA in a previous post. It certainly sounds like a bad combination due to the fact that speed is not only a dopamine agonist, but blocks its reuptake at the receptor sites. This would greatly increase the chances of dopamine neurotoxicity. Before I knew better, I took speed on the tail end of a roll. The comedown was terrible, like my mind was literally unravelling. Never again my freinds...
I know that prozac helps due to its properties as a SSRI, but what about generalised CNS depressants that downgrade dopamine activity? Diazepam, Xanax, Cannabis?
Is there anything else that can prevent sustained release of dopamine?
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The woods are dark and deep, and you have miles to go before you sleep...
 
Everything above is great info!!
dont forget the whole competing nutrients across the blood brain barrier idea.
Plain and simple, after MDMA, getting your serotonin levels up is the ONLY concern. So taking 5-HTP ONLY is the thing to do. You dont want it competing with other less crucial nutrients, esp ones that u dont want around anyway; e.g L-Tyrosine.
I do agree that the whole pre-load notion is probably an exaggeration for the reasons phase-dancer said, but post-load, 5-HTP imo has no equal.
Lets face it, serotonin levels were never meant to be altered in the way MDMA effects them. The body will do absolutely everything possible to return them to normal, as its such an unnatural state. As tryptophan is relatively rare in the diet and the hydroxylase enzyme (converts tryp -> 5-HTP) is rather slow/rate-limiting, giving urself 5-HTP will have it crossing the BBB, and the decarboxylase enzyme acting on it almost immediately, getting those serotonin levels up again...FAST. Or at least a lot faster than otherwise.
SSRIs after a roll i do think r the answer. And then start HTP a fair bit after that; maybe 6 hours. u dont want serotonin syndrome; but if ur stocks r empty this is unlikely, provided an ordinary dose of HTP.
Too many people i know will take speed after MDMA. I do it on occasion and i agree this has gotta be bad news.
Whilst not categorically proven, a strong SSRI then a line of amphetamine may be far less of a problem.
And i agree, that when i did have access to SSRIs and used them that scattered feeling was unapparent; which is esp apparent taking speed after a night on the pills.
As for other things to take after, if dopamine is a problem then surely GHB is very good. And t makes for a most pleasurable and fun comedown too. Plus the ability to induce safe sleep if u really cannot deal with staying up anymore.
Shame its almost impossible to get
frown.gif

[This message has been edited by Biscuit (edited 23 April 2001).]
 
So is the consensus that speed after e = bad. What about taking speed before taking MDMA??
I don't do much speed, I'll tend to have a bit early in the night (like just before I leave the house) to keep me going till about 1:00 - 1:30, then take my pill. Is this scenario more neurotoxic than the pill alone??
 
Phase Dancer - I didnt even know about the harmful potential of mixing these two substances.... I'll put it on the list for the little document I'm trying to get together at the moment... Many thanks!
 
Phase Dancer - I didnt even know about the harmful potential of mixing these two substances.... I'll put it on the list for the little document I'm trying to get together at the moment... Many thanks!
 
Phase Dancer - I didnt even know about the harmful potential of mixing these two substances.... I'll put it on the list for the little document I'm trying to get together at the moment... Many thanks!
 
Phase Dancer - I didnt even know about the harmful potential of mixing these two substances.... I'll put it on the list for the little document I'm trying to get together at the moment... Many thanks!
 
Ahh great responses ppl!
Well i definately understand more than when i first posted this message. Yep its definately BAD to take anything which increases Dopamine production after MDMA, especially speed. Otherwise dopamine is taken by the Seretonin reuptake transporters and broken down into hydrogen peroxide and oxidised.
I too want to know then answer to the previously asked question...how about taking speed or dexies before dropping an E? Would there still be masses of dopamine levels in the brain by the time seretonin is depleted? I assume there would be.
Also what prozac could be taken on a comedown? and when should it be taken? at 7am'ish say? Where can you get it?
Cheers,
RobE.
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Yeah nice one brov! :)
 
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