Alcohol Kratom vs. Alcohol

[《Plasticity》]

^ I haven't gone through that entire thread but I can tell you that a month long withdrawal is almost unheard of, or at least so rare that I haven't heard of it aside from people who used kratom to get off something stronger like oxy or buprenorphine. For most, withdrawals last from 5 days to 2 weeks (not counting days tapered, most fall into the week or so category from anecdote).

Kratom withdrawal isn't fun, but even the most seasoned kratom users typically won't run into month long withdrawals, though I guess it's a rare possibility. The half life of kratom is something like 3.5h iirc, that's very short. The intensity of the withdrawal seems to be far more variable then the duration, some say it's pretty damn rough while others sort of shrug it off. Sadly, there's no way of knowing til it's too late I guess. I can tell you from experience that both rebound from a week on phenibut and a rather mild etizolam habit (on seperate occasions) made kratom withdrawal quite comical, but it's still FAR from my idea of a good time.

@Thanatos I don't buy that, I've been prescribed opiates for colds and flu's before getting on kratom and while I felt content and euphoric, I coul still tell that I was sick underneath it all. The runny eyes, nose, and chills from a true sickness isn't resolved with opiates ime. Most symptoms are indeed masked, but definitely not all. I'm not quite sure what your trying to say about the fever/cold effects from withdrawal, please do explain.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

I would highly reccomend taking Kratom over an alcohol habit, that's for sure. I used it when trying to cut back my pill in-take, but was taking very large amounts of the Plain Leaf 12-20 TABLEspoons a day..not teaspoons(mostly bali, would switch up every now and again because it supposedly helps with keeping tolerance down, Thai and Green Malay were the ones I would switch up with, I found them to be more stimulating than Bali even though I don't consider Bali to be the least bit sedating myself.) It did cut back my appetite a lot also. Some people say the w/d are bad and some say they are not, I say they are not, mostly would just find myself bored and restless for 2-3 days then I was back to normal..then would go back on pills again,ha. I got REALLY tired of eating all that powder(I would grind the leaf in a coffee grounder.) I had no craving for alchohol the whole time I took it, although that is true with ALL opiate like drugs for me, really can't stand alcohol. But if someone was asking me which is a better daily habit(if there is such a thing) then Kratom, HANDS DOWN.. Reason I went to Kratom was because of the Pod shortage all of the sudden and Roxi's/dillies/lortabs were just to pricey for my habit..Never would say it got me high, just put me in a better mood and helped with W/D's. Now on Bupe, and would consider Kratom to be Bupe Ultra Ultra light, just my opinion.

 

[Thanatos9]

^ I haven't gone through that entire thread but I can tell you that a month long withdrawal is almost unheard of, or at least so rare that I haven't heard of it aside from people who used kratom to get off something stronger like oxy or buprenorphine. For most, withdrawals last from 5 days to 2 weeks (not counting days tapered, most fall into the week or so category from anecdote).

Kratom withdrawal isn't fun, but even the most seasoned kratom users typically won't run into month long withdrawals, though I guess it's a rare possibility. The half life of kratom is something like 3.5h iirc, that's very short. The intensity of the withdrawal seems to be far more variable then the duration, some say it's pretty damn rough while others sort of shrug it off. Sadly, there's no way of knowing til it's too late I guess. I can tell you from experience that both rebound from a week on phenibut and a rather mild etizolam habit (on seperate occasions) made kratom withdrawal quite comical, but it's still FAR from my idea of a good time.

@Thanatos I don't buy that, I've been prescribed opiates for colds and flu's before getting on kratom and while I felt content and euphoric, I coul still tell that I was sick underneath it all. The runny eyes, nose, and chills from a true sickness isn't resolved with opiates ime. Most symptoms are indeed masked, but definitely not all. I'm not quite sure what your trying to say about the fever/cold effects from withdrawal, please do explain.

Ok it might not be powerful enough to cover a really bad cold but there's no proof kratom or opiates (which are immunosuppressants) get rid of them, generally withdrawal involves the exact opposite rebound effect as the drug, that's my point with the fever/cold like effect from w/d....

 

[liftedgift]

I just read the below post and it's spooked me a bit. One person claims that kratom withdrawal can last for over a month. Having been through benzo withdrawal and several alcohol withdrawals has left me a bit raw. I'm taking krtaom now to stay off of alcohol, but I don't thrill at the thought of months worth of kratom withdrawal. Any thoughts?

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-435879.html

Eh, the physical symptoms didn't last more than 5-6 days for me and the depression started really subsiding by day 4 or so. I can see someone quitting and feeling empty/bored because they are not used to going without kratom. Kratom was my "content with life" drug and you have to readjust when you don't have it anymore. They might mistake this for withdrawal. But everyone is different.

The depression/mental aspect was really strange, I was hysterical by day 2. Songs that I never cared too much for gave me chills/goosebumps and sometimes sort of a adrenaline rush. I was laughing my ass off one second while smoking weed with some friends, and then looked outside or something and waves of sadness would come over me for some reason. It wasn't unbearable just very weird if your not used to that. I did make the mistake drinking on day 2 or 3 and it made the sadness worse. Although phenibut always helped my kratom WD symptoms.

I guess quitting kratom started sending all these emotions in my brain. Not that kratom made me emotionless, far from it. Kratom actually made me think "psychedelic" ,if you will, as I felt more empathy towards others and perhaps more introspective.

I'm getting close to 3 weeks without kratom, and the only thing that is still bothering me is eating more fibre. I'm eating whole wheat breads,complex carbs, veggies and still not having the ease I had when I was on kratom. When you first start, you will probably be constipated but at some point my body got used to all the plant matter and I never was constipated for around 2 years, barely ever had a stomach ache, and I don't think I ever threw up. This coming from somebody who always had a weak stomach, kratom made my stomach steel. Somehow, I do think kratom helps your digestive track and I wish more was known about all these compounds and their pros/cons.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I've been fighting alcohol dependency for many years and I have just discovered kratom. It definitely helps ease my cravings for alcohol. I understand that they are both different drugs, act on different neurotransmitters, has different effects, etc. My question are: 1. How does tolerance compare? 2. How does withdrawal compare? Any insights would be most appreciated.

good luck you choose the better of the two (imo) addiction wise. Even if the witdrawal woul be equally painfull, which it isn't if I recall corect. Al the other benefits are in kratoms favor. The effects are much more grounded/ wellrounded high and when not overdone quite unnoticable for outsiders. It's certainly for me way more longterm sustainable health & moneywise, social, psychelogical and emotional. No hangovers and alcohol depression sure kratom will have such feature's but again way more favorable.

Personally the tolerance factor seems alsmost non existment after a short sharp rise in dosage it sort of plateus. Is this caused by one of kratoms many actives?
A manageable level of cravings for dosage increases. Which I believe I read before to be true specially when one abstains frome extracts/ enhancements. Enjoy kratom Robber and do yourself a favor try to always taper the kratom which makes the drug even softer and more benign.

 

[Ignot]

I was immune to kratom. Its a complete ripoff for me.

 

[roberr]

Thank you all very much for helping set my mind at ease. It certainly seems that the vast majority overwhelmingly favor kratom over alcohol as far as addiction.

Currently, I am taking kratom daily, but I do not plan to increase my intake. Once I've been without alcohol for a substantial period, I will consider tapering down or taking a break.

For now, for me, kratom is working. Granted, I've never had any substantial experience with opiates, other then some stints with Vicodin after minor dental procedures; but I am experienced enough with substances to know that it's working.

 

[《Plasticity》]

@ ignot If you have a low opiate tolerance, you got shit kratom. If you have any real tolerance to opie's then kratom does very littl.

Ok it might not be powerful enough to cover a really bad cold but there's no proof kratom or opiates (which are immunosuppressants) get rid of them, generally withdrawal involves the exact opposite rebound effect as the drug, that's my point with the fever/cold like effect from w/d....

Ah, okay now I get what you were trying to say. I failed to grasp the correlation of the second to last sentence to the point you were trying to make.

I mean yeah, I'm sure there's some symptom supression going on. That I agree with. I'm also not saying there's any real evidence towards kratom preventing sickness, nor am I trying to build a case either lol (though I'd love to see some studies done on the link between opioids and sickness).

Kratom does contain documented immunostimulants though, as well as tons of other goodies ranging from anti-inflamitory to cancer preventatives (anti-mutagenics?) and I can only speak for kratom when I say this, but my experience is that kratom stopped being strong enough physically to be considered a significant contender to a full blown cold after like a year or two, and during a 4 year period of use I never got any noticeable sickness once.

I used to get at least a full blown flu once a year, and even shot of heroin wouldn't fix many of the symptoms like nausea, and the extreme chills, and skin sensitivity I got during these flu episodes. Kratom contains alot more healthy alkaloids than the opium poppy, these alkaloid profiles can be found all over the web if your interested. Whether these benefits are enough to warrant the risk of dependancy is up to the user.

 

[roberr]

OK, so it seems I underestimated the strength of kratom. Yesterday, I tried using the kratom like one would chew tobacco. I figured that, in doing so, I could squeeze every last bit of alkaloids out. I began feeling dizzy and my heart began to race. Lesson learned. I guess I'll stick with toss and wash.

 

[3dmusic]

Don't have kratom ontop of alcohol unless you want to lose all your kratom.
I did this and threw it straight back up.
Alc after kratom is ok though

 

[roberr]

Ha! Thanks for the pointer. I'm trying to use kratom to permanently kick my alcohol addiction, so, hopefully, that won't be an issue. Even if I did, after many years of alcohol dependency, I have a relatively iron stomach. I have yet to experience any nausea related to kratom usage.

 

[roberr]

I have two questions. I hope someone will be able to answer the following:

1. How quickly does kratom tolerance develop?

2. I understand that lower doses are stimulating, while higher doses are sedating. Is this true? If so, why?

Thanks!

 

[dankplantgrower]

Roberr, how often do you have to dose to keep alcohol cravings at bay? Is Kratom more cost effective than cannabis in your opinion? Are cannabis and Kratom even comparable, in the sense of keeping an alcoholic from craving? Cannabis helps but I sometimes slip up and get a bottle even when Im set on weed.

Im a severe alcoholic having a terrible time with a taper, my self control with regards to booze is very poor, and really hoping Kratom might be stronger than cannabis in the "dont get drunk dumbass!" department..

 

[Stotched]

Take the kratom DankPlantGrower. I'm a former heroin addict. I have to take kratom 4-6 times per day (every 4 hours i'm awake) to ease cravings and feel normal. I was spending 100 dollars on heroin a day. Even with how much I use kratom, I spend 100 on it a month. People say not to trade one addiction for another, but for some of us addicts, it's impossible to be stone cold sober. I went from being a 27 year old junkie drinking rum, and shooting dope all day in my moms basement, to having my own place, being a manager at a large warehouse chain, and in general just loving life.

I always say, addiction doesn't need to be a bad things. I run out of kratom a few times a year, and withdrawing from it is nothing compared to alcohol or opiates. You'll get tired and depressed for 2-3 days. By day 4 you're back to normal. Kratom saved my life, it really did. I wish more people were willing to give it a shot. Just dont use extracts and you'll be good.

Also: I find kratom still makes me have cravings for alcohol. But after 2 beers I just don't want to drink anymore. I believe kratom has opioid antagonist and NMDA antagonists in it as well, which leads you to not wanting to drink.

 

[roberr]

For me, I don't have access to cannabis; although I have partaken in the past. From my experience, cannabis and kratom are not synonymous. Cannabis is more relaxing, while I find kratom to be more stimulating, even at higher doses.

I don't think kratom is necessarily a good option while withdrawing or tapering from alcohol. The stimulating effect may be a little too much to handle. However, once you're off the booze, I find it gives me a bit of a lift throughout the day.

I'm taking about 2 to 3 teaspoons a day. I've tried taking higher doses a couple of times, and it did seem more sedating. I'd still like to know why that is.

 

[Jdubs38]

Kratom Withdrawal

I've been fighting alcohol dependency for many years and I have just discovered kratom. It definitely helps ease my cravings for alcohol. I understand that they are both different drugs, act on different neurotransmitters, has different effects, etc. My question are: 1. How does tolerance compare? 2. How does withdrawal compare? Any insights would be most appreciated.

Ok i can't keep reading all this without letting everyone know that kratom withdrawal can really really suck. I'm talking heroin wd sucking. I've tried coming off of heroin many times and finally did 3 years ago.
Back to kratom. I was taking an incredibly powerful extract and using about 50g a day. I know it's a huge dose. So when i tried to stop the first 3 days was burning skin, anxiety, the runs, just feeling uncomfortable. The worst thing however was i did not sleep one minute for 3 nights. On the 3rd day with no sleep i was starting to lose my mind. I'm a very experienced user of DXM so i thought it may help me feel better. I took my usual dose of 1000mg (large dose but not for me) two hours later i was having crazier hallucinations than after taking 4 hits of acids. It was like i was ok for 5 seconds and then would go into dream mode. I thought the whole world was waiting for me to come out (so they could save me) of my apartment and had helicopters outside and i kept hearing a voice saying "just unlock the door." Then I'd walk outside and start hallucinating again and "wake up" five minutes later (or could be five seconds) on the floor. That's what these hallucinations would do being so intense. You'd fall right to the ground when they started. My mom finally came to check on me and took me to the hospital. By the time i was at the hospital all i could do was look up. I couldn't say a single word. Oh yeah and when the hallucinations happened i couldn't control my body so after hitting many doctors they handcuffed me to the bed. After hours i got to where i could say 1 word every 6 or 7 seconds. I couldn't pee so they put a cathader (sp) in. They wouldn't give me any medicine because they were afraid of all the dxm in my stomach. I sat in the hospital the whole night without sleeping and got admitted into a detox the next day.

Ok so my point is please don't underestimate kratom. Granted i know the hallucinations were due to lack of sleep and dxm. I haven't ever hallucinated on dxm even in larger doses, so i guess another point is not sleeping will drive you crazy. Just be careful. I'm currently trying to come off alcohol. Thinking about using kratom and benzos to get through it.

 

[Mycophile]

Ok i can't keep reading all this without letting everyone know that kratom withdrawal can really really suck. I'm talking heroin wd sucking. I've tried coming off of heroin many times and finally did 3 years ago.
Back to kratom. I was taking an incredibly powerful extract and using about 50g a day. I know it's a huge dose. So when i tried to stop the first 3 days was burning skin, anxiety, the runs, just feeling uncomfortable. The worst thing however was i did not sleep one minute for 3 nights. On the 3rd day with no sleep i was starting to lose my mind. I'm a very experienced user of DXM so i thought it may help me feel better. I took my usual dose of 1000mg (large dose but not for me) two hours later i was having crazier hallucinations than after taking 4 hits of acids. It was like i was ok for 5 seconds and then would go into dream mode. I thought the whole world was waiting for me to come out (so they could save me) of my apartment and had helicopters outside and i kept hearing a voice saying "just unlock the door." Then I'd walk outside and start hallucinating again and "wake up" five minutes later (or could be five seconds) on the floor. That's what these hallucinations would do being so intense. You'd fall right to the ground when they started. My mom finally came to check on me and took me to the hospital. By the time i was at the hospital all i could do was look up. I couldn't say a single word. Oh yeah and when the hallucinations happened i couldn't control my body so after hitting many doctors they handcuffed me to the bed. After hours i got to where i could say 1 word every 6 or 7 seconds. I couldn't pee so they put a cathader (sp) in. They wouldn't give me any medicine because they were afraid of all the dxm in my stomach. I sat in the hospital the whole night without sleeping and got admitted into a detox the next day.

Ok so my point is please don't underestimate kratom. Granted i know the hallucinations were due to lack of sleep and dxm. I haven't ever hallucinated on dxm even in larger doses, so i guess another point is not sleeping will drive you crazy. Just be careful. I'm currently trying to come off alcohol. Thinking about using kratom and benzos to get through it.

Sorry man, but you can read the bolded part of your text and STOP right there.

We are generally talking about PLAIN LEAF Kratom powder NOT extract when we talk about the WD not being that bad.

Everyone knows that the Extracts are essentially an ENTIRELY different drug and I took 14-18 grams of PLAIN LEAF powder 4 days a week and got nothing more than mild depression and a runny nose for 4 days after stopping COLD TURKEY.

You are talking about like the difference between say, beer and Moonshine for example: one has incredibly low alcohol content and the other is practically PURE alcohol.

Or maybe the comparison of Codeine to Heroin would also work.

The extracts are PURE isolated chemicals in the plant which by itself has a ceiling dose and you were taking a MASSIVE amount of powerful extracts EVERY DAY so OF COURSE you will have horrible WDs.

If you use some common sense, use PLAIN LEAF powder and DON"T use it EVERY SINGLE DAY the WDs are not that bad.

I mean with the ban coming it's not like we can undo the bad image Kratom has but we still need people saying good things about it now if there's ANY chance for it to become legal again (which there probably isn't).

So no offense, but with your very first post you are showing you probably haven't read much about the differences between Plain leaf Kratom and Kratom extracts and get right to attacking Kratom and how when used in the most irresponsible way possible it CAN lead to bad WDs.

No offense, but it's kind of annoying and short sighted.

I also would expect that 2 six packs of beer a week will cause fewer problems than a gallon of pure Moonshine consumed every day.