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Alcohol Kratom vs. Alcohol

roberr

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
19
I've been fighting alcohol dependency for many years and I have just discovered kratom. It definitely helps ease my cravings for alcohol. I understand that they are both different drugs, act on different neurotransmitters, has different effects, etc. My question are: 1. How does tolerance compare? 2. How does withdrawal compare? Any insights would be most appreciated.
 

Keif' Richards

Moderator: BDD, OD, NSADD
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Lowell/Charlestown, Massachusetts
I don't have a lot of experience with Kratom specifically (used it half a dozen times), but from what I understand and have experienced, it's effect profile is similar in many ways to opiates. This "opiate" feeling however, is going to be a lot weaker than say Oxycodone/Hydrocodone at a moderate dose. I'm sure that withdrawal from said substance will resemble opiate withdrawal in a lot of ways, but not having real experience, I won't claim to know.

Anyway, alcohol wrecks your body. As I'm sure you know, withdrawal from alcohol is HELL. Even when you are still intoxicated, the effects of chronic, heavy ethanol use can still make you feel like complete shit.

I'm no doctor, but I can tell you that just about any substance is better to be hooked on that the drink.
 

HdoubleODeezy

Bluelighter
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
6,753
Location
ME- Portland
^ i agree. alcohol is horrible for the body and mind.
In case you guys were wondering.. kratom wds aren't nearly as bad as alcohols.
Basically consists of lethargy, restlessness, and some pain (almost the same as any opiate, just doesn't stick around as long IMO).

BTW Keif Richards i just noticed your location.. i was raised in NH don't live there anymore tho. I was in Manchester for 18 years of my life.
Good to see another person from NH on here.

-HOOD
 

The Doc.

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Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
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Location
Canada
I would rather see someone doing that than drinking I've had so many family's members and friends taken from me by the bottle its horrible changes a person's personality immensely and seeing a person withdrawaling from it makes you cringe for them. The nurses in detox all say the 3 drugs they see people having the hardest time with in detox is alcohol as the number 1 worst then GHB is second and number 3 methadone is a bad one too they say. This is just a few nurses opinion obviously there's people who would have a harder time quitting other drugs while on of these "worst" may seem like a piece of cake to stop. Everyone is different some can't take mental effects during detox while some can't handle physical symptoms from withdrawal.
 

roberr

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
19
Very useful information!

I've only experienced withdrawal from alcohol (several times) and benzodiazepines (1 time). Withdrawing from clonazepam, even taking a clinical dose for 8 months and tapering for 2 months, made alcohol withdrawal seem easy. Although it is still extremely difficult, alcohol withdrawal, for me, lasts about 7-10 days, with the worst of it over by day four. Comparatively, benzodiazepine withdrawal lasted months...pure agony. From what I surmise from the above posts, using kratom, at reasonable doses, for a time, while staying away from the booze, should not produce more severe withdrawals than that created by alcohol, assuming I taper off of kratom when the time is right. Is that correct?

Regarding kratom tolerance: How quickly does tolerance develop? Right now, I've been using kratom for around 4 days and I don't feel like I need more than when I started -- around 1 teaspoon in the morning (red Bali powder) and 1 teaspoon in the early afternoon.

Thanks!
 
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liftedgift

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Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
496
I used plain leaf kratom for over 2 years and just stopped just over 2 weeks ago. I have never been through alcohol WD but have been through phenibut WD and somewhat of benzo WD. I can say that kratom WD is way easier. There was an "emptiness" I guess when I stopped and I felt depressed. These feelings have subsided and I feel back to my normal self. Not to say there isn't a WD because there is, but I honestly wouldn't stress about it unless you're using extracts.

Kratom eliminated most of my cravings for any drugs and that is why I used it on probation. I would have smoked weed or something if I didn't have it. I went from smoking daily to not smoking in 2 and a half years thanks to kratom (not that I advocate kratom over weed quite the opposite really, but Texas views things differently). It would probably take 2 weeks or so of daily use to feel the WD, but it may be sooner as I didn't keep track. I LOVED kratom at work, caffeine and kratom (low doses) had me in work-mode. If you do physical labor I could see you loving low doses of kratom, again there is a WD but I really wouldn't worry about it. I would take kratom WD over alcohol/benzo any day easy. I can't imagine using alcohol or benzos for 2+ years daily and going through that WD. If its keeping you off other drugs that would negatively impact you somehow then by all means go for it.
 
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KyleOpium

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Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
146
Regarding kratom tolerance: How quickly does tolerance develop? Right now, I've been using kratom for around 4 days and I don't feel like I need more than when I started -- around 1 teaspoon in the morning (red Bali powder) and 1 teaspoon in the early afternoon.

Thanks!

Kratom tolerance grows, but not nearly as quick as traditional opiates, or even booze's tolerance grows.

I've been using 3-4 times dailys (every 4.5 hours) for about 6 straight months now. When I first started, it took a teaspoon during my day doses, and 1.5 teaspoons at night to feel content, and not wanting to use alcohol or Gabanergics.

So after using it 4 times a day for 6 straight months, I now have to use 1.5-2 teaspoons during the day, and about a tablespoon to fall asleep at night. So consistent daily dosing over half a year has roughly doubled my tolerance. I can take less if I want to, but to get the "buzz" I need to take more. The withdrawals are cake compared to benzos, alcohol, or opiates. Even weed I felt is harder to quit then kratom. I get mild soreness, some anxiety, but the lethargy is probably the worst symptom. Easily combated by large doses of caffeine and ephdrine.
 

roberr

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Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
19
Thank you for your insights, liftedgift! Out of curiosity, why did you quit after 2 years?
 

treezy z

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Aug 2, 2008
Messages
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belly of the beast, MA
I'm using Kratom to get off benzos and alcohol myself. Not planning on using it long term got a kilo of bali and that's it but its helped me with the withdrawals and i haven't used anything else.
 

muskolo

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Joined
May 8, 2011
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USA
I've known people who have successfully used kratom to stay away from alcohol. Kratom withdrawal, while tough in its own regard, is nothing compared to benzo/alcohol withdrawal. From what I understand, it is a great aid in preventing cravings for alcohol.
 

liftedgift

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
496
Thank you for your insights, liftedgift! Out of curiosity, why did you quit after 2 years?

I just got tired of always buying it, carrying it around. With kratom, I would dose around 5-7 times a day so it could get annoying at work or something and someone sees you shoving 4 grams of green powder down lol.

I also wanted to see what it was like without it, as I couldn't remember. Work and going to the gym is definitely less satisfying without it, but I love not having to worry about any WD symptoms anymore.

It really helped me out though during a tough time in my life, kratom will always be good in my eyes but it to deserves respect.

And I'm sure like any other drug, tapering would be more comfortable than cold turkeying kratom like I did. For some reason, I would crave it more if I tried to taper since it doesn't last long. Maybe someone with kratom tapering experience can offer you a better tapering plan if you get to that point.
 
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sekio

Moderator: N&PD
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streets of simcity
Kratom is far better for you than alcohol is, even in an abuse type scenario. Esp. whole leaf kratom.. if you're eating 25+ grams of that shit a day, there's your fibre, minerals, vitamin C+E, flavonoids, all sorts of shit in addition to the goodness of mitragynine and the other kratom alkaloids.
 

liftedgift

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
496
Yeah, I never got sick while taking kratom as in a cold/flu/allergies. I usually get sick once a year but haven't had anything for around 3 years now.

I also need to eat more fiber now, while eating kratom my daily dumps were quick and easy. Now I shit like 3 times a day lol my body must still be readjusting.
 

roberr

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
19
Thank you all for responding! Hearing from those more experienced than myself has proven very enlightening.

Currently, I've only consumed alcohol once since I began taking kratom, and certainly not an entire fifth of vodka. So far kratom is proving to be effective at reducing cravings, and I have no hangover in the morning, either. If anything, I seem to be more uplifted when I wake.

I'm still relatively concerned about tolerance. I've yet to experience a reduction of effects after 1.5 weeks of daily use. I'm currently consuming approximately 3/4 of a teaspoon of Red Bali powder t.i.d., and I feel no need to increase at this point.

I understand that Red Bali is a more relaxing strain, and that's my interest. Does anyone have opinions regarding different strains? Also, approximately how many grams of kratom powder are in a leveled teaspoon?

Thanks again for all of your contributions and insights!
 
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zzz101

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Jan 1, 2012
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London innit
i took kratom for around two weeks stright.. minus a few days. one night was bad(but ok) the rest doable. you don't even notice it during the day. i now do it every now and then.

wasn't that bad, just didn't sleep - could not keep/lay still for one second.. aches in legs and when it was bad, arms too. felt like running on foot and jumping into a pool. (anyone had that in withdrawl??you just want to be somewhere different) a warm bath would of prob helped.
 

muskolo

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Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
178
Location
USA
I've always doubted the whole "fiber richness" in kratom. What's the source for this claim? I see it all the time. Kratom constipates me something terribly and if I don't take a fiber supplement, I will not go.
 

《Plasticity》

Bluelight Crew
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Sep 21, 2013
Messages
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Well, all plants contain fibre (sources can be found all over the web). Kratom still contains mu agonists so it's no surprise some still get clogged up, sometimes fibre just isn't enough. Personally, kratom kept me regular but your definately not the only one to complain of constipation. Perhaps it's diet related, do you eat alot of breads, grains, pasta's or simple carbohydrates?

I can attest to the "never got sick on kratom". I just simply never got even the slightest cold during the whole time I was on kratom, it was quite interesting as I've always gotten sick at least 1x a year before that. Haha actually, if you really think about it, once your dependent you always get sick... it's just called withdrawal lol.
 
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Thanatos9

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
79
I've heard lot's of reports of opiate addicts not getting colds etc. this applies to kratom as well (as an opioid), it suppresses the symptoms of colds, the coughing, runny nose, et al. Notice how you get that sort of fever/cold effect from the withdrawal. It won't get rid of it just the symptoms.
 

HdoubleODeezy

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Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
6,753
Location
ME- Portland
I'm on day 3 off kratom and have a bad cough. Just as I always did in the morning before dosing my kratom.
Everyone in my house thinks it's from me smoking so much. I tell them it's part of wds. They don't understand lol.
 

roberr

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
19
I just read the below post and it's spooked me a bit. One person claims that kratom withdrawal can last for over a month. Having been through benzo withdrawal and several alcohol withdrawals has left me a bit raw. I'm taking krtaom now to stay off of alcohol, but I don't thrill at the thought of months worth of kratom withdrawal. Any thoughts?

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-435879.html
 
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