Kratom Kratom for days off heroin?

[Xorkoth]

Never mind just found out half life of kratom is between 24 and 40 hours so I cannot risk taking benzo after doing it as I would risk cns depression.

Kratom does not last anywhere NEAR that long, after a few hours I come down. In fact it only takes about 6 hours to start feeling withdrawal again when I'm heavy into kratom.

 

[menidiatis]

Yes, kratom and heroin are cross tolerant.

So you and user 6am, completely different answers

Go figure

 

[Nurse Ratched]

So you and user 6am, completely different answers

Go figure

We tend to get different answers on kratom posts because this tree is very different ( biologically ) for each user. Some people say it does nothing. Others think it's comparable to codeine or vicodin, while others say it's more like 3 cups of coffee. Very weird tree indeed.

Kratom can be cross tolerant as the mitragynine is a partial MU opioid agonist. It may be a weak tickle, but a tickle nonetheless. So anything that activates the receptor could be considered cross tolerant to heroin/fent/pain pills etc.

Even though kratom is pretty weak, it is still an opioid agonist. It's the only drug I take so I researched it pretty heavily and I still am intrigued by it as it has 39 other delicious alkaloids in it that are good for depression, anxiety, eating disorders, fatigue, insomnia and a few others. But since I am different biologically this may not be true at all for other users. Not sure if I helped but I hope I did.

 

[menidiatis]

We tend to get different answers on kratom posts because this tree is very different ( biologically ) for each user. Some people say it does nothing. Others think it's comparable to codeine or vicodin, while others say it's more like 3 cups of coffee. Very weird tree indeed.

Kratom can be cross tolerant as the mitragynine is a partial MU opioid agonist. It may be a weak tickle, but a tickle nonetheless. So anything that activates the receptor could be considered cross tolerant to heroin/fent/pain pills etc.

Even though kratom is pretty weak, it is still an opioid agonist. It's the only drug I take so I researched it pretty heavily and I still am intrigued by it as it has 39 other delicious alkaloids in it that are good for depression, anxiety, eating disorders, fatigue, insomnia and a few others. But since I am different biologically this may not be true at all for other users. Not sure if I helped but I hope I did.

thanks!

my question is mostly whether it is a better option:
a)take more days between heroin uses but use kratom
b)take less day between heroin uses but use no opioid of any form

and it is really about avoid physical dependence, as psychological dependence is a given anw when you reach the point to use opioids

 

[Nurse Ratched]

thanks!

my question is mostly whether it is a better option:
a)take more days between heroin uses but use kratom
b)take less day between heroin uses but use no opioid of any form

and it is really about avoid physical dependence, as psychological dependence is a given anw when you reach the point to use opioids

My reply will always be to take as much kratom as you need to avoid having to use heroin. Only use heroin when you absolutely cannot control yourself and you are sick. If you give kratom a chance and dose it high enough, it will never replace the heroin but you might find that it will control your cravings and offer other benefits you might not have gotten yet.

I was an opioid addict and thought I would never be happy without that warm fuzzy blanket. But it was all an illusion as that blanket was actually smothering me. Take as many days as you possibly can between heroin uses and try and make kratom fit the bill. It's not easy but it is doable.

You will have to dose high for awhile ( 7 grams, 3 times a day ) but once you get stable on it you can reduce your gram intake and still get the good benefits. Good luck, man.

 

[darvocet21]

I am pushing my luck and I see that I can't stop using heroin more than 1 day. My dependence is currently psychological, but the way it goes soon I'll have physical dependence as well.

My question is, is it possible to use kratom during off days for heroin? Or do they have cross tolerance and it will accelerate how fast I get physically dependent on heroin?

I see you already got a lot of good answers. You want it to be cross tolerant. That means is tickling the same nerves that you say you are psychologically addicted having tickled that way. I never really can't tell much of a difference between psychological and physical, except that the physical craving takes longer to arrive in the mail so to speak. In a way that makes the psychological craving the harder one to beat?
Kratom for:
- when you want to take a break from from adulterated street drugs.
- when you don't have any money to score
- for staving off an even worse predicament (ie. Jail, tag on toe)

 

[Xorkoth]

thanks!

my question is mostly whether it is a better option:
a)take more days between heroin uses but use kratom
b)take less day between heroin uses but use no opioid of any form

and it is really about avoid physical dependence, as psychological dependence is a given anw when you reach the point to use opioids

If you seek to avoid opiate dependence, you will not accomplish that goal if you take kratom on off days from heroin, but are taking either kratom or heroin every day. Since kratom is an opioid, you will become addicted to opioids if you take them every day. You will avoid addiction for longer if you just take days off from heroin and do not take kratom on the off days. I would leave at least 2 days between usages, if you take heroin every 3 days or less, you will probably be able to avoid addiction, unless you have been addicted before in which the kindling effect makes it much easier to get withdrawals again, with less usage.

If you are already addicted, taking kratom on the off days from heroin and using less heroin will reduce the severity of your withdrawal. heavy kratom use really sucks to come off of, but heroin sucks worse to come off of.

 

[deficiT]

So you and user 6am, completely different answers

Go figure

Our answers actually weren't all that different, his was just more fleshed out.

Ultimately, kratom can stave off your h withdrawals, but it likely will keep your tolerance up. H will always overpower the kratom though, regardless of tolerance.

 

[menidiatis]

Thank you every body for the detailed answers I really appreciate!

 

[JuncoPartner]

I have high tolerance to alcohol. Even with several beers, 0. 75mg eti don't cause anything close to respiratory depression for me

I ve done it many times

Mate you wanna stop taking H right now.
If you carry on eventually you will be diggin anything you can get yours hands on and definitely will not give a fuck about respiratory depression.
It won't even enter your mind haha

 

[Jen X]

Kratom is a very weak opioid. If it's even an opioid..if you can get high off it quit why you're ahead.
I've tried it with a small habit and felt nothing. I'm starting to think most of it is placebo.

 

[darvocet21]

Withdrew from oxy 40 milligrams a day and I'm on day 14 withdrawal. Legs hurt but use 20 mg klonopin a day at night to sleep. Take a 800 mg neurontin in the morning to calm me down. I find one builds a really fast tolerance to neurontin. Tried kratom a few times and felt nothing. There are super potent extracts of kratom which I never tried because I feel they may have a very high possibility of addiction. Coming off of oxy feels like a constant adrenaline rush which is why I use the above meds. Getting off of neurontin has been easy for me but klonopin will be a very slow taper.

You'd be better off switching the Neurontin to night time and taking Klonopin as needed throughout the day. since what happens on 20 mg of Klonopin is more like a long blackout then sleep

 

[Xorkoth]

Kratom is a very weak opioid. If it's even an opioid..if you can get high off it quit why you're ahead.
I've tried it with a small habit and felt nothing. I'm starting to think most of it is placebo.

It's no placebo but if you're dependent on a full agonist you will barely feel it. Recently I found myself addicted to poppy pods and kratom doesn't even touch it. barely helps prevent withdrawals. But if you're not addicted to a full agonist, it gets you high and is quite pleasant, and produces withdrawals that suck. Using kratom here and there, it can be quite pleasant, in fact it was how I got into opiates in the first place, I used to LOVE kratom, back when I was an opiate virgin. I used to get an awesome high from it when I dosed a half ounce at a time using the traditional tea method (discard the leaf material, this allows you to dose higher without experiencing the dizzy/nauseating side effects). But dose it every day and it starts to suck and you get withdrawals.

Anyway there is no debate on whether kratom is an opioid, mitragynine and to a greater extent, 7-HO-mitragynine, are partial mu opioid receptor agonists.

 

[menidiatis]

It's no placebo but if you're dependent on a full agonist you will barely feel it. Recently I found myself addicted to poppy pods and kratom doesn't even touch it. barely helps prevent withdrawals. But if you're not addicted to a full agonist, it gets you high and is quite pleasant, and produces withdrawals that suck. Using kratom here and there, it can be quite pleasant, in fact it was how I got into opiates in the first place, I used to LOVE kratom, back when I was an opiate virgin. I used to get an awesome high from it when I dosed a half ounce at a time using the traditional tea method (discard the leaf material, this allows you to dose higher without experiencing the dizzy/nauseating side effects). But dose it every day and it starts to suck and you get withdrawals.

Anyway there is no debate on whether kratom is an opioid, mitragynine and to a greater extent, 7-HO-mitragynine, are partial mu opioid receptor agonists.

Could you please elaborate what are poppy seeds? Cause I read about it on many posts here but I don't get it what they are?

Here in NL they sell at head shops poppy seeds which the employee claimed can be used to grow opium. Is it the same thing?

Are they more powerful than Kratom? Good for H withdrawal?

Sorry for the bombarding of questions

 

[Xorkoth]

Poppy seeds are the seeds from the opium poppy. They're the same poppy seeds that you find in the spice section and you can make poppy seed muffins and stuff with. But most poppy seeds are washed... if you find unwashed seeds that were harvested from popp pods that were harvested for opium, they will have traces of opium left stuck to them. So if you get a lot of them (like a half pound or more, depending on how strong they are), you can make a "tea" by washing them with water and drinking the water, that contains opium.

 

[menidiatis]

Poppy seeds are the seeds from the opium poppy. They're the same poppy seeds that you find in the spice section and you can make poppy seed muffins and stuff with. But most poppy seeds are washed... if you find unwashed seeds that were harvested from popp pods that were harvested for opium, they will have traces of opium left stuck to them. So if you get a lot of them (like a half pound or more, depending on how strong they are), you can make a "tea" by washing them with water and drinking the water, that contains opium.

Ah OK sounds troublesome to get doubt I ll find these ones at the headshop

 

[Derschieber]

harm reduction lmao
like a lamb to the slaughter.

 

[Xorkoth]

What do you mean? I would always recommend someone not try opiates but the fact of the matter is, people do, so we should be able to talk about it without adopting a "just say no" approach among existing users.

But for the record, I wrote this piece years ago and I like to link to it when new users are asking if they should try opiates for the first time:

Opiates - Retrospective - Description of the Opiate High

I was in another thread today and I found this post I made a while ago, and I thought that the post would be better as a trip report. This report is written in 2nd person perspective and my goal with it is to give an accurate description of the total spectrum of the effects of opiates and...

bluelight.org

 

[menidiatis]

harm reduction lmao
like a lamb to the slaughter.

The point of this comment?

 

[tarman]

I'm a seasoned kratom vet. It absolutely can help. Where people fuck up is they get a low quality brand or they don't take enough. You might need to take four or five 8 gram doses to get you through the day. I usually maxed out at five or six gram doses and did it every 3 or 4 hours.
It scratches the itch enough that it's worth it to take it but there's still plenty of separate space if you were to draw a simple Venn diagram with heroin and kratom. And that's part of the beauty, it's a very different drug. And my humble opinion, I think your tolerance would drop if you took kratom as a replacement. Now again, if you think of a Venn diagram there is some overlap so maybe there is some sort of cross tolerance, and in my experience that crosstolerance has to do with the mental aspects.
Like when I quit heroin and jump to kratom, when I quit the kratom it's the mental aspects that makes it extremely difficult to quit. This is all just my two cents and my experience. Beware all the shitty vendors that have pretty websites and look legit- do your homework. I suggest trusting the hungry hungry hippo.