Misc Kratom first use

[Dogma123]

Yea don't do that at all. It's a great plant but I over used it and it's no good for me now. I don't take crazy amounts but take it everyday still.

It you keep it to twice a week you'll be good. It just makes everything worse in the end.

 

[kratnoob]

Alright good advice thanks guys. I was looking to strike some sort of balance. I'll limit to twice a week.

 

[geoffreychaucer]

I do not doubt that many people find kratom to be unsustainable and addictive long-term. However, I've been using kratom daily, with occasional breaks for tolerance, for close to 4 years. As long as you don't use more than one dose per day tolerance dosen't seem, for me, to rise too quickly. I can use kratom everyday for three weeks until I need to stop for tolerance purposes. When I first began using I felt what I thought was withdrawal but I know believe it was mostly psychological withdrawal combined with unmediated, although mild bipolar. Once I began taking lithium for this condition I found that kratom cessation had much less negative effect on my mood, i.e. I was no longer suicidal when kratom was unavailable. Kratom is most definitely something to be careful of and you will probably not be able to successfully use it to treat a condition if you take it everyday. But not everyone is the same.

 

[pinpoint]

I find it extremely hard to believe that a plant like kratom is non-addictive even though it can be substituted for heroin in opioid-dependent addicts with actions mediated through u-opioid receptors. I believe the people who tout kratom as non-addictive are either A) vendors, B) delusional, or C) haven't given it enough time.

 

[Mycophile]

I'm not surprised SSRI's didn't work. As others suggested, exercise and self-reflection is your best bet.

The only thing worse you could do than self medicate with Kratom is to self-medicate with benzos.

Just sub in the word "hydro" or "dihydro" or "trams" for "kratom". You're essentially purposefully making yourself an opiate addict.

I know that kratom is not an opiate in the traditional sense, meaning that it does not derive from the opium poppy. But it is without a doubt an "opioid" - it hits alot of the opioid receptors, and has some interesting properties all its own. As an opioid receptor agonist it is JUST AS STRONG as hydro, dihydro, and trams. Much stronger than Codeine.

e.g., I was recently prescribed 7.5/325 Norcos following a root canal. I take up to 20 grams of Bali PLAIN LEAF per day. I had to take FIVE 7.5 NORCOS in order to feel anything. This was when I realized the true extent of Kratom's effects. So this here "kratom" is not some weak-ass substance. 10mg of hydro used to floor me, 10mg oxy would make me vomit incessantly.

I've taken UEI and other extracts hundreds of times before, and trust me, they can be just as strong and euphoric as OXY - only difference being the UEI like all Kratom has a ceiling effect. You can't really OD in the classic opioid but catch a nasty opioid habit you definitely will!

At 1-2 grams, it is a fantastic stimulant, very clean feeling. Gives you the same stimulation as 2 cups of coffee without the downsides of caffeine (dehydration, increased urination, jitters)

But you will certainly catch a habit. And as others have stated, you will soon find yourself dosing just to prevent WD.

Kratom WD is just as nasty, especially for someone like yourself who is opiate-naive. To you, it will feel the way heroin WD feels to a heroin addict.

If you're new to kratom/opiates, then a spoonful of Bali or Maeng Da will be pure bliss - like a good hydro or oxy high, respectively. But it's not worth the habit and withdrawal.

Also because the ceiling that kratom exhibits, once you become addicted it's literally impossible for you to feel a kratom high - all it does is take away your WD.

OP - I hope you make the right choice, there are almost a dozen kratom-heads here to warn you about the horrors. Please save yourself the agony.

Good post, except I don't think there's anything wrong with self medicating with benzos if it's done cautiously.

Unless MAYBE you mean it's ok under doctor's orders but not without??

STILL I disagree.

I use Klonopin as needed and have never gone through WD...yet I'm DEFINITELY an extreme example because I was able to take it daily for 11 years without WDs which is nearly unheard of.

Nevertheless, I still see nothing wrong with medicating with or without a doctor's prescription with benzos or Kratom so long as you know how to do it PROPERLY.

You really think it's unnaceptable to use benzos two days a week and/or Kratom two days a week for anxiety or depression.

If so, well I couldn't disagree more.

 

[strigoi]

I've used kratom on and off for the last few years and I can tell you it never helped with anxiety, and in the long term seemed to make it worse. Kratom is ok once in a while, and terrific if you want to get off 'harder' opiates. Daily recreational use is a huge waste, after day 2 any good feelings it brought about are gone and you are just left experiencing the side effects.

 

[Mycophile]

I've used kratom on and off for the last few years and I can tell you it never helped with anxiety, and in the long term seemed to make it worse. Kratom is ok once in a while, and terrific if you want to get off 'harder' opiates. Daily recreational use is a huge waste, after day 2 any good feelings it brought about are gone and you are just left experiencing the side effects.

Maybe it didn't help YOUR anxiety, but it certainly CAN help with both social and generalized anxiety at least in the SHORT TERM, and has definitely helped me with mine, as someone who has both social and generalized anxiety.

I've been in public situations where my anxiety would normally act up where I had none since I was on Kratom, but you are still only treating SYMPTOMS not the cause.

It most definitely is capable of having anxiolytic effects, as I would assume probably almost any opioid or opiate could.

So just be sure to realize that your experience is not the same as everyone else's.

Essentially probably ANY central nervous system depressant at all, be it an opioid/opiate,benzo, barbiturate, alcohol, even sleeping pills, are probably capable in the right context with the right person of having an anxiety relieving effect...being as they "depress" both the brain and body.

 

[Dogma123]

You'll say you will use twice a week but we are a little alike. Those used to be my problems but I've got over those in some ways.

You will start justifying using 3 days a week instead of 2 and so on and so forth. It's the way most of us here end up using some type of substance daily.

The exception to the rule is if you don't really have any problems in life like depression or anxiety. Say your just a normal guy. That person 9 out of 10 won't become addicted. There is always the 10% or so that get addicted to any substance.

My previous post in the thread was a little wrong, we used to have the same problems then I started using Kratom and it worked great. Then stopped using Kratom and got over those initial issues that were causing anxiety and depression. Few months later picked up the Kratom habit out of boredom and since it's not a real hard drug per say I justified using It everyday.

I think it's best for short term treatment, like most drugs. It still benefits me some but nothing major, just a hour or two of warmness and generally happy. You have to try and just work out your problems man. I know it can be so hard to do but you can get better without drugs I'm sure.

For me coming off Kratom isn't too bad, I find cannabis to be way worse to come off of just because of the mental aspect. So that's just me. Good luck with whatever you decide

 

[RDP89]

Just like most opioids, kratom makes a very poor daily anti-anxiety/anti-depressant drug. You will become dependent on it and it will almost invariably be a hellish experience, especially since you do not have any other opioid addictions under your belt for comparison.

Cycling strains everyday to avoid tolerance is bullshit as well. If you take kratom on a regular basis, even if it isn't everyday, tolerance will still be a problem. Just ask Mycophile, another one of our members, how only using a few times a week worked out for his tolerance.

Unless you want to end up like me - a slave to a plant and considering suboxone treatment - then I would highly reccomend against using kratom daily. And, if you truly want to avoid tolerance, you should probably use it no more than maybe once a week, and even then you'll probably still end up using a lot more over time.

This exactly. Im in the same boat for the second time (with Kratom that is, that's not counting going thru hell with alcohol,benzos,etc. throughout my life. Argghh why do I keep doing this to myself??? Addictive personality/self medication sucks. I am also stuck on Kratom trying to taper,possibly considering, depressed and frustrated, trying to hold it all together (family,job and all)

 

[Mycophile]

You'll say you will use twice a week but we are a little alike. Those used to be my problems but I've got over those in some ways.

You will start justifying using 3 days a week instead of 2 and so on and so forth. It's the way most of us here end up using some type of substance daily.

The exception to the rule is if you don't really have any problems in life like depression or anxiety. Say your just a normal guy. That person 9 out of 10 won't become addicted. There is always the 10% or so that get addicted to any substance.

My previous post in the thread was a little wrong, we used to have the same problems then I started using Kratom and it worked great. Then stopped using Kratom and got over those initial issues that were causing anxiety and depression. Few months later picked up the Kratom habit out of boredom and since it's not a real hard drug per say I justified using It everyday.

I think it's best for short term treatment, like most drugs. It still benefits me some but nothing major, just a hour or two of warmness and generally happy. You have to try and just work out your problems man. I know it can be so hard to do but you can get better without drugs I'm sure.

For me coming off Kratom isn't too bad, I find cannabis to be way worse to come off of just because of the mental aspect. So that's just me. Good luck with whatever you decide

This isn't always the case.

It's true for many people, maybe even most (there's still no way of knowing though) but for some they just stick to what they say.

I've said 3 times a week max, and so far in a year of using I've yet to break that rule.

Now it's easy to say "sooner or later you will"...but I'm sure I won't...and again, it's easy to say "everyone says they won't but they will" lol...which is what most usually say.

In the end, it comes down to personal will power.

I've also heard the line on here "no it doesn't cause you are involved in a process that erodes will power".

While I kind of understand the point...I still say no...even if you are engaged in addictive behavior, where and when it begins and ends still stops with the individual.

For example, both of my grandparents on my mom's side were addicted to cigarettes when the surgeon general finally announced that they were bad for everyone (I believe it was in the 1960s??) my grandfather immediately put them down and NEVER smoked another cig again in his life...while my grandmother...unfortunately continued and died of lung cancer (R.I.P)

Now who knows what made them different...it's anyone's guess...but the point is, my grandfather was involved in the same "will-power-eroding activity" and still decided to quit despite it, and I do truly believe had he wanted to continue but make smoking a once a week thing he also could have done that while others like my grandmother can't/couldn't.

It's all a matter of how important something is to you and what you have to lose or gain by getting addicted (or anything for that matter) (probably also along with some amount of undefinable genetic predisposition towards either addiction or enhanced will in the face of it).

If it's important enough for you to stick to 2 or 3 days a week and/or you are afraid enough of addiction, you can make it work regardless of what anyone else says.

 

[Areyouhappynow1]

Definitely do not TRY to make it a daily habit. Had a pretty bad 6 month habit where I was taking anywhere from 8-15 grams a day depending on how big my spoon was that day (literally, I just quit measuring it out cause i just needed a fix). Effects got worse and worse everyday to the point where I would only get a good buzz for about 30 minutes or so then i would just be extremely irritable for the rest of the day. Then I joined the Navy and have been clean ever since, but still to this day I get urges to purchase some even after of 4 months of being clean. This being said, if you are going to turn it into a habit, potentiation and benadryl will be your best friend (diphenhydramine completely got rid of the nausea for me).

 

[strigoi]

Maybe it didn't help YOUR anxiety, but it certainly CAN help with both social and generalized anxiety at least in the SHORT TERM, and has definitely helped me with mine, as someone who has both social and generalized anxiety.

This is a good post, and I agree. I used kratom to get off of pharmaceuticals, so there were other things happening other than the kratom. Maybe if I could better 'feel' the opiate activity of kratom, it would have had better anxiolytic effects.

 

[maddawg300]

Ah Kratom, I remember taking a full ounce of kratom extract which was like 50 bucks and I was nodding g the fuck out in class and the professor told me to leave. Then I walked to a gas station to buy beer and this random dude asked me if I was on heroin and if I could get him some......

 

[pbuilder]

This exactly. Im in the same boat for the second time (with Kratom that is, that's not counting going thru hell with alcohol,benzos,etc. throughout my life. Argghh why do I keep doing this to myself??? Addictive personality/self medication sucks. I am also stuck on Kratom trying to taper,possibly considering, depressed and frustrated, trying to hold it all together (family,job and all)

I can say I am addicted to kratom, I used it to get off harder opiates and am dependent on it. But I'm not sure how mycophile uses so much, even though he only uses 3 times a week. I can get by on 5 grams twice a day. I've never used anywhere close to an ounce, so I just find it interesting that he needs to take so much to get high. But maybe it's because I don't chase the high nearly as much with kratom and try to just use it as a maintenance drug. I occasionally will push the dose up to 7 grams.

 

[Mycophile]

I can say I am addicted to kratom, I used it to get off harder opiates and am dependent on it. But I'm not sure how mycophile uses so much, even though he only uses 3 times a week. I can get by on 5 grams twice a day. I've never used anywhere close to an ounce, so I just find it interesting that he needs to take so much to get high. But maybe it's because I don't chase the high nearly as much with kratom and try to just use it as a maintenance drug. I occasionally will push the dose up to 7 grams.

Well I don't need NEARLY an ounce to get high to be clear.

If I take less than 10 grams though I wont really get high, just a bit relaxed. If I take 10 that's about the minimum that might get me a LITTLE high.

12 grams is usually a very good dose for me and will get me quite high, and 14 grams will get me about as high as I can really get off quality Kratom and going beyond that point WITHIN 5 hours (which I have done plenty of times lol) is usually most likely just compulsion and probably I've already hit a ceiling and am just chasing something that's not there and wasting it.

So 12 grams is really my go to dose, but IF I have no concern of wasting Kratom 14 gs over the course of 4 or 5 is about is good as it gets.

When I said I take an ounce that's from trying to be high on Kratom all day long, and I find Kratom lasts me 4 or 5 hours...so, yeah, do the math if 12 ounces is one high and I want 2 or 3 highs in a day......

It's still a SHIT LOAD, but you make it sound like I need a whole OZ to get high.

Given that I've already heard a number of posters say they had a naturally high tolerance and started off at 10 grams per dose then 12 grams per dose after I have one isn't totally nuts...

But yes, I TOTALLY chase the high as far as it can go because I don't use any other opiates.

It's not maintainence for me, it's the entirety of my high.

 

[kratnoob]

What is everyone's thoughts on the following cycle, to avoid tolerance/addiction?

Monday: Phenibut 1.5g
Tuesday: Kratom 4g
Wednesday: Alcohol, 2 standard drinks
Thursday: Valium, 5mg
Friday: Kava Kava, 1 bowl
Saturday: Alcohol, 2 standard drinks
Sunday: Rest

Repeat..

This is for a planned indefinite cycle. Thoughts? I've previously had good success with discipline (I've been on phenibut 1x a week, 1.5g for 2 years now, and 5 mg valium 2x a week as needed for 5 years).

 

[Mycophile]

What is everyone's thoughts on the following cycle, to avoid tolerance/addiction?

Monday: Phenibut 1.5g
Tuesday: Kratom 4g
Wednesday: Alcohol, 2 standard drinks
Thursday: Valium, 5mg
Friday: Kava Kava, 1 bowl
Saturday: Alcohol, 2 standard drinks
Sunday: Rest

Repeat..

This is for a planned indefinite cycle. Thoughts? I've previously had good success with discipline (I've been on phenibut 1x a week, 1.5g for 2 years now, and 5 mg valium 2x a week as needed for 5 years).

Looks fine to me.

I personally think you could take Kratom 2 days a week and your dose doesn't even need to be only 4 grams.

I think you could go up to 8 grams or even a little more SPREADOUT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE DAY you use it, just preferably not two days in a row, in fact, preferably with 2 days between Kratom usage to let it get past it's half life and leave your system.

But yeah, your schedule right there looks even safer than is necessary, and absolutely to ME doesn't look at all problematic and sounds pretty responsible.

 

[Dogma123]

I mean you could possibly stick to that regimen but that Sunday will make you want to take something since you will be taking drugs 6 days out of 7.

If you think you could do it, just try it and let us know. I myself couldn't do that I would start mixing all those together and blah blah blah. I think if you've had success before you can but maybe change it to at least only 5 days out of 7.

 

[Fetus Fetish]

if you are looking for sedation, euphoria, opiate like high then get bali and dose 5 grams, but if stimulation is what you want get maeng da but IMO a low dose of bali is just as good for stimulation. But what ever kind of kratom you are using 1.5 grams wont do shit, go for something like 4-5 for sedation and 2-3 for the mild stimulation but i find kratom better for just relaxing i never use it for stimulation