Opioids Kratom extract snorted -> potentiation!?

[plumbus-nine]

First, most kratom extract is bunk. I've had a handful different brands, no-name internet as well as Dutch headshop stuff and the no-name tends to be better but out of maybe 5-6 samples I only had two really good ones, first a Switzerland based (shop closed due to ban, thank Nixon) resin extract which of course will have consisted of pretty high amounts of mitragynine and I stupidly overdosed, it was like a common opioid overdose with violent nodding and blackout but I'd agree to that kratom doesn't depress respiration like the real/full agonist opioids. Maybe like buprenorphine but I had 2mg of this w/o opioid tolerance and it was nowhere near the strength of said resin.

Now my recent vendor added a 20x extract to his menu, and I only ordered out of curiosity and because it was pretty cheap. It's a total alkaloid extract so should mimic kratom just in more potent but its profile even orally is quite different. Less dysphoric (for those who react as strongly as I do to kratom's antidopaminergic properties) and somehow more clean. The strength might be roughly accurate. But what really makes a difference is insufflating this stuff - just tiny amounts like 30-50mg (eyeballed) make me sleepy in a relaxed way, fell asleep on it while watching a movie twice and this when I had residual prolintane in my system and usually would just have been tossing around in bed.

Is kratom really so heavily first pass metabolized? I'd say it's pronounced enough for to exclude placebo as I still have tolerance to ~100mg morphine (there was none of it in me though at the point of kratom ingestion; but kratom usually also didn't do much potentiation of other opioids for me.)

 

[negrogesic]

Well it has been theorized that mitragynine may be in part a prodrug for the far more potent 7-hydroxymitragynine so not sure the implications of snorting in this regard.

Never tried snorting extract, but sublingual extract definitely seemed to work. Wasn't a big fan as it seemed to make it more sedating and dizziness inducing.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Well it has been theorized that mitragynine may be in part a prodrug for the far more potent 7-hydroxymitragynine so not sure the implications of snorting in this regard.

Never tried snorting extract, but sublingual extract definitely seemed to work. Wasn't a big fan as it seemed to make it more sedating and dizziness inducing.

Sedating for sure, I'm somebody who can't sleep on morphine unless dosages which are below tolerance level but kratom extract makes me sleepy - no dizzyness though but I don't get nausea easily anyways so maybe that's why. I dislike the effects of usual extracts somewhat as when tolerance is higher and one needs more than just 2-3g, the off-targets like D2 and 5HT2a antagonism become more pronounced.

Interesting, I read too that mitragynine and its 7-HO-derivate metabolize to each other which is kinda of metabolic mesomerism and seems to be rare so far. Mitragynine isn't dependency inducing in animals and behaves partially as a mu antagonist while 7-HO is a full agonist. Maybe it has to do with solubility and the nasal route avoids the antagonism but that's a far guess now.

Sublingual is a bit stronger than oral for me but not much.
It's the second plant which shines as insufflation powder (this extract here doesn't smell or taste a lot, just a bit like any herb, and goes up painlessly). The first as kanna, which substitutes for and helps to withdraw SNRI antidepressants.

Just tested it again, a tiny bit like 25mg are giving me a reasonable opiatey feeling maybe like 40mg morphine (intranasal too; morphine has poor BA by any non-invasive routes so maybe it's half as potent in weight).

 

[plumbus-nine]

Actually I need revise myself a bit, kratom follows a different dosage - repsonse curve than morphine, it's more like 1/4 probably but this route pretty darn nice. Hadn't I known, I could no tell that it wasn't morphine what I took and this is when even high dosages of standard powdered leaf stuff was dysphoric as much as that I'd rather go through some withdrawal than to continue using it ... Curious what's going on here. I don't see how one could absorb more 7-HO than with oral route specially when these two produce each other - first pass is one possibility, and the extract itself another one - the strength is accurate but maybe it's laced with some RC for them to save leaves - I have no clue how much wholesale kratom costs but guess it would needa be something along the potency of fentanyl to be economic but we had O-DSMT before in extracts and this one is on the expensiver side of RCs. Might be that they artificially increased the price to keep sales and attention down though. Anyways, I'm going buy some more of this extract before it runs out.

As the company I got it from is among the first search results, I doubt somehow that they infuse with chemicals - rather might it be that Kratom degrades quickly and they used fresh leaves, leading to a different mixture of alkaloids. But well, then the extract would degrade even more quick, doesn't it?

Remarkable is the absence of bitter taste which imo speaks against chemicals. More like they just over-did their work at extracting lol (no I know it's not possible to magically increase potency. That's why I'm posting here. Maybe just nobody tried the nasal route with a decent extract yet [somebody will have but maybe not publicated the results.])

Pretty stimulating now, with staggered dosages there's no sleepiness at all. But have some residing prolintane in my system, maybe that's why even when it's faded off - at least kratom speedballs are possible.

 

[G_Chem]

So when I was in withdrawal trying to stop a 4mg a day buprenorphine habit, I bought all sorts of kratom products, leaf and various extracts. The leaf felt like green tea, the 20x was ok but still lacking… But when I snorted the highly pure Da Maeng extract I had that’s when I finally felt some very noteworthy effects. It only took away my pain for a couple hours but was very euphoric and gave me energy I desperately needed at the time.

The suggested 150mg oral dose on the site, I was getting good effects at 30-50mg snorted. Highly effective. Just the smell, it got to me.

-GC

 

[plumbus-nine]

Oh I actually like the smell of my 20x extract here. But indeed confirm that it's only active for a few (2-4 max) hours, much shorter than tea which kept physical withdrawal (but nothing else really) at bay for most of a day - morphine works 2d for me with euphoria for like 6h and then subsides, but withdrawal takes 2d to manifest and 3-4 to peak.

Weird, I don't see a simple explanation for why snorted kratom is so different. Maybe there's only traces of the 7-HO formed out of mitragynine but all of what's in tea gets destroyed by first pass?
I need to tray kratom plugged lol, maybe tomorrow.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Okay, guess I under-estimated my dosages a bit, this powder is pretty heavyweight and much less fluffy than I am used to from ketalogues. But what remains is that kratom's a wholly different drug intranasal - and interestingly (sadly as well) there is a ceiling effect, would say after 75mg 20x extract there's pretty much finished for the moment, took 2-3x more without getting much more intense effects but things are prolongable, and it's becoming a tiny bit spaced out but not very comfortably so. Let's see how I feel tomorrow, have some pregabalin handy.