Misc Kratom dependancy

[williamsmark801]

How long does it take to become dependent when using kratom? I'm currently going through PST w/d and I'm on day 6. I've been using kratom since day 1 as a crutch to get me through the w/d symptoms. It's been a real life saver, but I'm concerned I may become dependent if I'm not careful. I honestly don't enjoy the "high" you get from kratom, so I'm not worried I'll want to get high off of it, I'm just concerned I'll get hooked while kicking the PST.

 

[DoctorMolecule]

Everyone will become dependent on Kratom at different times, from my experience I could use Kratom everyday for about two weeks and not feel the slightest WD symptoms, a whole month of use is a different story, mild withdrawl symptoms. When I used it for about 8months straight the withdrawals were difficult for about 5 days
I don't think you have anything to worry about... for now. At some point in the near future you'll have to consider tapering.

How much are you using to stabilize?

 

[Coolwhip]

You are already "hooked" on opiates. The dependency is to the activation of mu receptors, your body doesn't care what you use to activate them, if it did then kratom wouldn't help with PST WD.

 

[williamsmark801]

How much are you using to stabilize?

About 6grams or so in the morning, then I add about 3 after a few hours, and probably another 3-6 a few hours after that depending on how I'm doing. It's hard to keep track exactly though because I capsuled it, and they aren't exactly uniform by any means. I'm swallowing A LOT of pills though, you can't get much kratom into a 00 capsule.

 

[williamsmark801]

You are already "hooked" on opiates. The dependency is to the activation of mu receptors, your body doesn't care what you use to activate them, if it did then kratom wouldn't help with PST WD.

So you think I'm just prolonging my PST WD symptoms using kratom then? Today is day 6 and though I am doing better I would have thought I'd be doing even better than I am

 

[Coolwhip]

You are prolonging the WDs, but if you don't have the strength to stop using PST cold turkey at your current dose then that is moot. Eventually you will stabilize on kratom, but you won't be able to just stop taking it and not have WDs you will have to WD from kratom but it will be easier to WD from, its easier to gauge how many active alkaloids you are ingesting(control the dose and taper), has a shorter half life so the detox is generally over quicker, is g-protein biased, and has lower intrinsic activity, so the WDs are less intense.

 

[Speed King]

So you think I'm just prolonging my PST WD symptoms using kratom then? Today is day 6 and though I am doing better I would have thought I'd be doing even better than I am

If you use the Kratom and at some reasonable
pace, lower your dosage (start keeping track) even a small amount at the time, you will be able
to come off the pst.'

If your just using, it is really easy to substitute one habit for another.

 

[DoctorMolecule]

If you use the Kratom and at some reasonable
pace, lower your dosage (start keeping track) even a small amount at the time, you will be able
to come off the pst.'

If your just using, it is really easy to substitute one habit for another.

Thank you speed king: a most eloquent summation that I couldn't possibly attempt.

 

[burn out]

Yes if you keep gradually lowering your dose of kratom it will be a very effective way to come off. There's no need to worry about "prolonging withdrawals" because while it will prolong them a little bit, it will make things so much easier that it will be worth it. I mean which would you rather, suffer like hell for 7 days and then get better or barely suffer at all for 12 days?

The only thing is, the last step when you jump off krater will be difficult because you ll be tempted to just keep taking kratom. If you can avoid that and truly jump off youll be golden.

 

[Blackout2906]

We don't do get high threads so I'm gonna close this out.

Closed.

 

[Snake_Eyes]

So you think I'm just prolonging my PST WD symptoms using kratom then? Today is day 6 and though I am doing better I would have thought I'd be doing even better than I am

Kratom dependency is a walk in the park in comparison and very easy to taper. Personally I'd rather deal with an easy withdrawal for 2-3 weeks than spend a week curled up on bathroom floor sicker than dog shit.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Kratom and pst both act on opiate receptors...so it's not a matter of getting hooked on kratom
..u are already hooked on opiates to begin with just switching them

 

[JackARoe]

Here is what I learned about kratom withdrawal. If it is used to come off another stronger opiate then coming off kratom is tougher when it is stopped. I am not sure the science behind it. Maybe although not strong enough to create new receptors but strong enough to hold over the ones created by using an external opiate like heroin. (I realize I could be talking out my @ss)

Basically when I came off just straight up kratom use, tapering made it no more uncomfortable than a light opiate withdrawal along with caffeine withdrawal. A quicker return to equilibrium. When I used it to come off a stronger opiate it seemed the original withdrawal was always waiting around the corner making it seem kratom was just as hard to come off.

I really do believe it is based on if the kratom use was started by virgin kratom use or used to come off a stronger opiate. There seems to be much to learn about it. I can say this. Coming off virgin kratom use is a world different than say using it to come off methadone and then stopping the kratom. As far as I am concerned it is two different things based off the state the brain is in.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Sorry to be that guy, but kratom isn't an opiate and doesn't act on opiate receptors, it's an opiod that acts on opioid-receptors.

Opiate is properly limited to the natural alkaloids found in the resin of the opium poppy

(Wikipedia)

 

[Tikhil]

First, I highly recommend making a OJ based drink with the kratom and leaving the caps behind.

A few ways to make a it:

1. Take a tall glass, add your kratom dose, add very hot water (just enough to cover Kratom) mix until the kratom is all wet and in the solution. Add OJ, and perhaps some artificial sweetener to taste. Goes down pretty easy.

2. Buy the small bottles of OJ, drink a sip, add dose, shake real well. Drink.

For me, tapering off kratom after switching from subs when easy, and happened almost naturally as I would skip doses when I didnt feel like drinking Kratom. Once i kicked from daily use, I had minor w/d symtoms, but nothing worse then a mild cold.

 

[Snake_Eyes]

First, I highly recommend making a OJ based drink with the kratom and leaving the caps behind.

A few ways to make a it:

1. Take a tall glass, add your kratom dose, add very hot water (just enough to cover Kratom) mix until the kratom is all wet and in the solution. Add OJ, and perhaps some artificial sweetener to taste. Goes down pretty easy.

2. Buy the small bottles of OJ, drink a sip, add dose, shake real well. Drink.

For me, tapering off kratom after switching from subs when easy, and happened almost naturally as I would skip doses when I didnt feel like drinking Kratom. Once i kicked from daily use, I had minor w/d symtoms, but nothing worse then a mild cold.

Pretty much the method I use. I microwave approx. 2oz water for 20 seconds, add my kratom and about 6oz of lemonade (free from work) then down in one breath so I only have to taste it once. I've used OJ and V8 many times in the past but you can't argue with free.

That said I also use 000 capsules for convenience, larger doses or when I simply get tired of drinking the sludge.

 

[Tikhil]

When i take the time to make it really well, and add some sweet and low, I have come to actually enjoy the mix. I also often use an enhanced kratom product (a light extract mixed in with ground leaf) so I can use far less then I would with plain leaf. But I wouldn't recomend an enhanced product while tapering, stick with the plain leaf to allow your receptors to normalize (moreso then if using the stronger extract).

I would have struggled not to overuse the enhanced product while tapering, but now its a very easy substance to control my use around. YMMV of course.

A well made tea is also remarkable, and I would often make tea while coming off subs. The process takes awhile, but that can be a good thing as it provides a nice distraction. If one enjoys green tea, the kratom tea ends up being highly tolerable, even enjoyable with honey. I make large batches while camping with friends, and i've never heard anyone take issue with the taste (and they are non-kratom drinkers). The tea is good for a few days if stored in the fridge, makes it easy to grab and go, and helps for the AM dose (when you may be a bit sick). Also useful for late night withdrawal when making a proper drink, or capping out kratom is a bit annoying. Tea can be made VERY strong (good and bad of course), which might allow one to have to tolerate drinking alot less to get desired effects.

 

[The Shadow Self]

If you use Kratom wisely, you can save yourself a WHOLE lot of heartache, my friend. I know...I helped myself off of opiates more than once and I'd do it again if I had to. You have to get the dosing down right, and some think less will get the job done, but I found I started with enough to make me fell MUCH better 3 to 5 gr), then re-dose however many hours later. It even helped with the RL nonsense that is usually part of the WDs. I am the biggest proponent of Kratom since I know, at least for me, it works. If I can save myself suffering, you bet your ass I will, and K has done that for me on more than one occasion. You just taper off, over a couple of weeks, and you might be shocked at how much better you feel.

 

[Tikhil]

If you use Kratom wisely, you can save yourself a WHOLE lot of heartache, my friend. I know...I helped myself off of opiates more than once and I'd do it again if I had to. You have to get the dosing down right, and some think less will get the job done, but I found I started with enough to make me fell MUCH better 3 to 5 gr), then re-dose however many hours later. It even helped with the RL nonsense that is usually part of the WDs. I am the biggest proponent of Kratom since I know, at least for me, it works. If I can save myself suffering, you bet your ass I will, and K has done that for me on more than one occasion. You just taper off, over a couple of weeks, and you might be shocked at how much better you feel.

I agree very much with this. My actual sub kick (after 2.5 years of constant opi use) was easier then some of the w/d I had during my use period, resulting from not being able to get opis. For me, Kratom was a wonderdrug. And in my post opi world, Kratom continues to be a wonderful substance I use on occasion.