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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Kratom ban possible…

Well, a lot of people (myself included) are like that with weed. If we have weed we tend to smoke it.

I'm not really disagreeing with you in the sense that kratom is an opioid and is quite addictive and more physically addictive than marijuana for sure. However, if you look at society today I would argue there are far more daily cannabis users than daily kratom users. I would argue that cannabis is having a negative effect on the lives and emotional development of far more teens and young adults today than kratom is.

Of course partly this is due to cannabis being more popular but given that kratom is legal and has been around long enough now that most young people with any interest in drugs know about it and there is no huge stigma about it keeping people away from it, why is cannabis so much popular?

My overall point is that I see cannabis as a greater threat to the health of young people today than kratom. It's amazing how many young people I see today smoking weed every day and even taking dabs like it's just a normal thing to smoke weed/ dab every day. Personally I don't think it's normal or healthy and I think there is a greater risk for heavy marijuana use effecting emotional and psychological development.

That's not to downplay the risks of kratom, but like I said I don't think young people are abusing kratom to anywhere near the level they are abusing cannabis right now, hence the irony of the increasing legalization and promotion of cannabis while simultaneously banning kratom. If I get in my car I can't drive more than 5 miles without passing a billboard advertising legal cannabis. When I walk in the woods I find empty cannabis containers. If I ride my bike downtown I smell marijuana smoke. It didn't used to be like that, even 10 years ago it wasn't the norm to smell marijuana smoke in public on a regular bases.

I wonder if it's different in areas like where I am where it is displayed in gas stations and with electric signs on the door? I'm not sure, since I don't know any kids around here. I know a lot of people use it, not as many as weed though, for sure. It's pretty ubiquitous, but then, it was before we legalized it, too, among the people I knew and hung out with. Most of my friends my age started smoking between age 13 and 15, I didn't start until I was 17. There was no kratom back then, or any idea that weed would be legalized in my lifetime.

Weed and kratom should both be legal. I am not convinced that legalizing it is causing the huge increase in people smoking weed that you think it does. I'm sure there is some increase, but weed's been popular and common and easy to get for a long time.
 
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They won't rest until they are the sole providers of all drugs. We won't even be allowed plant medicine under the current directives.

Until there is a widespread revolution against the pharmaceutical industry, resistance is futile and there's nothing we can do. They are taking over everything and destroying the world.
 
I wonder if it's different in areas like where I am where it is displayed in gas stations and with electric signs on the door? I'm not sure, since I don't know any kids around here. I know a lot of people use it, not as many as weed though, for sure. It's pretty ubiquitous, but then, it was before we legalized it, too, among the people I knew and hung out with. Most of my friends my age started smoking between age 13 and 15, I didn't start until I was 17. There was no kratom back then, or any idea that weed would be legalized in my lifetime.

Weed and kratom should both be legal. I am not convinced that legalizing it is causing the huge increase in people smoking weed that you think it does. I'm sure there is some increase, but weed's been popular and common and easy to get for a long time.

I'm curious where you are that you have electric signs about kratom. Is it in a major city? Here kratom is sold in smoke shops and an herb/nootropic store that sells a lot of legal psychoactives. I've only seen it in a couple gas stations and it was just small packs of capsules with a ridiculous price and no signs.

I also don't think marijuana legalization is causing a huge increase in people smoking weed, but when I think back to when I started smoking weed and how difficult getting primo buds could be sometimes (I mean I actually smoked weed with seeds in it, lol) it's hard to imagine the changes not leading to an increase in the amount of THC being consumed. I mean we used to use terms that are irrelevant now like "mids", "schwagg" and "beasters" for different grades of weed that were all below the quality of the bottom shelf weed at any dispensary now and we used to pay as much for decent quality "regs" as people do now for top shelf dispensary weed and that's without even taking inflation into account. Back then dabs were unheard of, hash was usually unavailable and you mainly had no choice of what strain you got or any idea what it was.

It's my theory that when price goes down and availability, quality and social acceptability all go up, people will use more of the drug in question. At least no one was dabbing every day back then, although for sure heavy users existed.

But I'm not trying to argue we should go back to cannabis prohibition, I am just pointing out the irony I see in banning kratom while at the same time relaxing cannabis laws. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
 
Doesn't make sense to me, either. I hope it doesn't get banned. I am in a quickly growing medium sized city that has a kava bar, so that says something I think. I mean like how there are Open signs in windows... there is one that says "kratom". Most gas stations have display stands. One gas station I tend to get it from has prices down to almost online prices from a local supplier, not sure how they make any profit. For a while it was insane prices with little selection, now between a few gas stations I can get pretty great prices whether I want extracts or powder.
 
It’s don’t make sense it makes dollars…cannabis is different cause it is now being researched and more people are accepting that it is a legitimate medicine, and it works, really well in some cases and for a wide variety of conditions and a lot of people fought for a long time to get where we are. Also Philip Morris is getting into the weed game an other tobacco giants, We’ll see where that goes… on the other hand kratom is pretty opiate specific for the time being and it’s obviously a threat to subs and methadone
 
r but given that kratom is legal and has been around long enough now that most young people with any interest in drugs know about it and there is no huge stigma about it keeping people away from it, why is cannabis so much popular?

Cannabis has a lot more history behind it, at least here in the USA. I probably didn't even know what kratom was 10 years ago. Outside of some recreational drug subcultures it's still not super well-known, whereas everyone knows what weed is
 
It doesn't actually have that much history behind it though, does it? I mean wasn't marijuana very rarely used in the United States at the turn of last century and didn't it not really become popular until the 1960s?

Something that I've always wondered is why kratom and kava aren't more popular. They are both every bit as good as marijuana in their own ways and they're both legal. I guess with kava a lot of people think it doesn't work because they tried some pills or something.

I dunno, I guess another irony is how much effort, how many billions of dollars have been spent trying to enforce marijuana laws and all the while there are perfectly legal plants that can be just as much fun as marijuana and yet only a small fraction of people are using them compared to marijuana.
 
I mean, I don't think it was necessarily widely used for much of its history, but people here in the states have been messing around with it for a long time. A hell of a lot longer than with kratom anyway

But I do agree with you in that I wonder why kratom isn't more popular sometimes too
 
I mean, I don't think it was necessarily widely used for much of its history, but people here in the states have been messing around with it for a long time. A hell of a lot longer than with kratom anyway

But I do agree with you in that I wonder why kratom isn't more popular sometimes too

That is true there were people messing around with it but that brings me to another question which is why it didn't become popular until the 1960s. It's not like Americans didn't like drugs before that, when you consider that opium, tobacco, cocaine and morphine were all fairly popular, so much so that the government banned opiates and cocaine due to the widespread addiction issues they were causing. Why wasn't cannabis popular amongst American drug users back in those days? Why weren't doctors more interested in it, considering their at times liberal prescribing of drugs like opium and cocaine?
 
I got good news in my email this morning. The AKA successfully pushed for a court order mandating that the FDA reopen comments until August 24th. If you have not already done so please go to https://www.protectkratom.org/whocomments to submit your kratom story. People who know you well like your friends and family can also submit comments about how kratom has helped you.

Anyone who wants to comment but doesn’t feel comfortable sharing their email address can create an email address just for this by putting whatever they want in front of @ikfam.33mail.com.

Doing that will ensure that any resulting junk mail gets forwarded to me instead of showing up in your inbox. Please let me know if you use it and the full address you created with it so I can turn off that address if needed.

Alternatively, 33 mail is free and easy to create an account. I just offer mine to make things as easy as possible for even the most technologically challenged

Important: the American kratom association is asking people to submit comments through their website even if they have already commented to the FDA directly because the FDA doesn’t have to present the comments it receives. They only have to “ consider” them. So the best way to ensure your voice is heard is probably to use the link above.

They say that they have 50K comments already and are aiming for 75K+ now.

This deadline extension is one victory let’s keep trying for the next!
 
Lets hope the american kratom association can help do it again.

The kratom industry is big, somewhere slightly north of a billion dollars a year in the US (something like $1.2B). Then again thats around 1/100th the size of the marijuana industry. Still pretty big (thats what she said).
 
Good to see the AKA in communications with the proper people.

We will win again. Kratom saved me. Between us I don't even think I should be alive. Like my path was one of OD'ing but kratom extended my life. I wish I knew why. lol

My stories was one of association and mentioned some other herbals I do. I even through in turmeric in the story. :) I like to keep the stuff in the herbal column for people. Since we already have herb shops. Association does work. (and I can hear some people saying kratom ruined their life and is a drug but frigg em, I needed to associate to herbals for this)

But yes incredible momentum from the good side. If you have doubts just meditate on the DEA backing off. So much momentum. It is hard to outlaw plants. Delta 8 snuck itself in. lol
 
If it does get banned you guys should move to Canada.
I highly doubt it will ever get banned up here
 
I know its a long time ago but when the US had alcohol prohibition, Canada did not

It's different now. Canada and the U.S. have harmonized a lot of their systems. If one country bans a drug but not the other, then the other country can become a source of the illegal drug. So they usually ban things together. Mexico is the only country in North America that kind of gives the middle finger to all that, but not always.

If the U.S. bans Kratom, citing research, then Canada will likely follow. I don't see how it wouldn't. In some ways Canada is worse than the U.S. for drug regulation. At least the U.S. has a lot of OTC drugs grandfathered in before the FDA was created. Canada got rid of its grandfathering laws so they can ban almost anything, and they have been. I'm an herbalist and in the past 5 years half of my apothecary has disappeared because of Health Canada. They are closing in.

Until a revolution happens against big pharma, they are going to take over the world, and they will do so by making everyone ill while hiding the cures.
 
Statement from the AKA. Funny how rumors start. But I have seen a lot of rumors not this one so I was surprised to get this email. The AKA has their finger on all the right bottons.


Statement on Indonesian Kratom Supply Chain

Kratom Advocates:

The American Kratom Association is aware of reports that The Kratom Herald article published two months ago is being recirculated on social media claiming that kratom will be banned in Indonesia within 6 months and that will cause a collapse the global kratom supply.

There is no evidence to support this conclusion, and we strongly encourage all kratom consumers to reject the recommendation in the article to stock up on kratom before the claimed ban will take place.

The AKA has been working closely with Indonesian government officials and growers groups for the past several years and no one believes that the BNN’s proposed ban will actually be enacted. In fact, the BNN would not have the authority under Indonesian law to enforce such a ban without the support and approval of a number of Indonesian Ministries or the President of Indonesia.

In fact, when the question was asked directly of Indonesian contacts about whether there would be any ban implemented Indonesia in 2022 as predicted by The Kratom Herald, one official stated such claims were “irresponsible."

The American Kratom Association
 
More great news: 1. The WHO has a different comment deadline than the FDA. September 27! So although the FDA comments portal is probably offline now you can still comment or have friends, family or anyone who will stand still long enough to understand and agree to help comment on protectkratom.org. Note: if you have already commented they are asking that people not comment twice. Instead ask others to comment.

2. The international community is rallying around this issue. Kratom was just completely legalized in Thailand yesterday according to the AKA webnair speaker I heard tonight ( Mac Hadwood I think but several people spoke so it’s a bit hard to remember who said what). Anyway, they don’t want to see this decision undone at an international level.
So scientists from Thailand will be supporting the AKA at the virtual meeting with the WHO and UN etc on October 11.

3. Despite earlier concern about a kratom ban in Indonesia next year, if I understand right that is off the table for now. In large part because no satisfactory replacement scheme has been proposed that would allow vast numbers of farmers to support their families which is obviously a bigger problem for them in light of COVID-19.

So experts from Indonesia will also be supporting the AKA at the big meeting.

4. The FDA made themselves look bad during the legal proceedings that the American kratom association started about the original deadline.

5. a decorated Navy Seal started consuming kratom to deal with incredible pain associated with war injuries and he has volunteered to make a testimony video for the AKA. The buzz around the zoom chat on the webniar was that his name is Drew something.

My guess is that he could be pretty famous if he is well known enough to be known just as “Drew the Navy Seal”.

So this could be a huge boost to the effort to get the word out about what Kratom is, how it helps people and what the FDA is trying to weasel.
For better or worse American ( as a cultural whole) lives by the sword and values it’s war heroes. So getting one to champion the cause could be a huge advantage.

5. The American kratom association has found a donor who is willing to match donations starting September 9th I think they said

That is the list of good news I heard from the meeting. The concerns I heard are as follows:

1. speaking time at the meeting in October will be limited to 5 minutes and not everyone who applies will be chosen to make statements.

2. with each crisis the AKA feels the impact of donor/advocate fatigue. And yet this will either be our biggest victory or biggest loss. So we really need to rally everyone.

3. The new presidential administration seems to be under the misconception that the FDA bases everything on science. So the AKA needs to do some fast education of the official who said that on the record ( I don’t remember the name or role of the official they named in the webnair).

4. There are kratom supporters who are dividing the kratom community by wrongful saying that the AKA is trying to undermine small vendors by imposing extra regulations.

5. If this issue of a ban isn’t nailed into a coffin in October the next stages will get progressively more difficult.

however there would be a year at least before any international ban went into effect. Ergo, the American kratom association is saying that no one needs to stockpile kratom at the moment. I guess this point should have gone on the good news side of this post.

Things you can do to help:
1. Comment and ask others to do so.
2. If there are shops that sell kratom near you the AKA has emailed a flier that you can ask the shop to post. I’m not that technology savvy but I will try to post the flier file here.

3. Donate if you can. Personally I plan to save all of my soda cans between now and September 15th, recycle them then, load a visa gift card and donate the money. I drink a lot of soda so it is a strategy that works for me but things like surveys and rewards programs like swag bucks could work too if one has been sitting on points for a while,

4. (religious content below so if it’s not your thing kindly stop reading here, Thanks. I don’t want to start a debate)

Most important I think: if you are a Christian or serve YHWH or are otherwise the praying type: pray constantly for the concerns above. Pray that the lord will direct who gets to speak at the October meeting. Pray for the speakers as they prepare.
And especially on the 11th of October fast and pray if you can. I can’t completely fast from food but I will probably do sugar or technology that day or something.

Let all the prayer warriors be vigilant and on their knees that day! And don’t forget praise is a very strong spiritual weapon. I am a Bible student so yeah it is showing here! We Christians have an enemy and it’s not the FDA although He would love for us to get confused and distracted on this issue and forgot that he is the real problem.
 
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