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Kratom ban possible…

Pumpkin2021

Moderator: TDS
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Your mileage may vary. I find kratom WAY more addictive than marijuana (mentally as well as physically). I have weed and rarely use it, I haven't bought it in like 6 months and still have some. Every time I dose kratom once, I fall back into multiple times a day dosing and full blown addiction. Not everyone is going to be like me, plenty of people use kratom responsibly, but to anyone else reading this, I wouldn't take this opinion as a sign that kratom is safer than weed.

I still don't think kratom should be banned though, because it's much safer than other opiates and it has saved many peoples' lives and continues to do so. If kratom is banned a lot of people will turn back to other opiates. It would be insane to ban kratom given the opioid problem we have.
Well said.
 

izo

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
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HHH
i found kratom to be an opioid that has not the inherent pleasentness of many other opioids, in other words its not so good that you keep dosing it all the time without thinking twice but its still an okayish opioid nonetheless. i dont appreciate it beeing banned but that is so with any other drug i know.
 

burn out

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
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Michigan
Your mileage may vary. I find kratom WAY more addictive than marijuana (mentally as well as physically). I have weed and rarely use it, I haven't bought it in like 6 months and still have some. Every time I dose kratom once, I fall back into multiple times a day dosing and full blown addiction. Not everyone is going to be like me, plenty of people use kratom responsibly, but to anyone else reading this, I wouldn't take this opinion as a sign that kratom is safer than weed.

I still don't think kratom should be banned though, because it's much safer than other opiates and it has saved many peoples' lives and continues to do so. If kratom is banned a lot of people will turn back to other opiates. It would be insane to ban kratom given the opioid problem we have.

Well, a lot of people (myself included) are like that with weed. If we have weed we tend to smoke it.

I'm not really disagreeing with you in the sense that kratom is an opioid and is quite addictive and more physically addictive than marijuana for sure. However, if you look at society today I would argue there are far more daily cannabis users than daily kratom users. I would argue that cannabis is having a negative effect on the lives and emotional development of far more teens and young adults today than kratom is.

Of course partly this is due to cannabis being more popular but given that kratom is legal and has been around long enough now that most young people with any interest in drugs know about it and there is no huge stigma about it keeping people away from it, why is cannabis so much popular?

My overall point is that I see cannabis as a greater threat to the health of young people today than kratom. It's amazing how many young people I see today smoking weed every day and even taking dabs like it's just a normal thing to smoke weed/ dab every day. Personally I don't think it's normal or healthy and I think there is a greater risk for heavy marijuana use effecting emotional and psychological development.

That's not to downplay the risks of kratom, but like I said I don't think young people are abusing kratom to anywhere near the level they are abusing cannabis right now, hence the irony of the increasing legalization and promotion of cannabis while simultaneously banning kratom. If I get in my car I can't drive more than 5 miles without passing a billboard advertising legal cannabis. When I walk in the woods I find empty cannabis containers. If I ride my bike downtown I smell marijuana smoke. It didn't used to be like that, even 10 years ago it wasn't the norm to smell marijuana smoke in public on a regular bases.
 

Pumpkin2021

Moderator: TDS
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Well, a lot of people (myself included) are like that with weed. If we have weed we tend to smoke it.

I'm not really disagreeing with you in the sense that kratom is an opioid and is quite addictive and more physically addictive than marijuana for sure. However, if you look at society today I would argue there are far more daily cannabis users than daily kratom users. I would argue that cannabis is having a negative effect on the lives and emotional development of far more teens and young adults today than kratom is.

Of course partly this is due to cannabis being more popular but given that kratom is legal and has been around long enough now that most young people with any interest in drugs know about it and there is no huge stigma about it keeping people away from it, why is cannabis so much popular?

My overall point is that I see cannabis as a greater threat to the health of young people today than kratom. It's amazing how many young people I see today smoking weed every day and even taking dabs like it's just a normal thing to smoke weed/ dab every day. Personally I don't think it's normal or healthy and I think there is a greater risk for heavy marijuana use effecting emotional and psychological development.

That's not to downplay the risks of kratom, but like I said I don't think young people are abusing kratom to anywhere near the level they are abusing cannabis right now, hence the irony of the increasing legalization and promotion of cannabis while simultaneously banning kratom. If I get in my car I can't drive more than 5 miles without passing a billboard advertising legal cannabis. When I walk in the woods I find empty cannabis containers. If I ride my bike downtown I smell marijuana smoke. It didn't used to be like that, even 10 years ago it wasn't the norm to smell marijuana smoke in public on a regular bases.
Yup.
 

Xorkoth

🎨 ARTministrator 🎨
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Well, a lot of people (myself included) are like that with weed. If we have weed we tend to smoke it.

I'm not really disagreeing with you in the sense that kratom is an opioid and is quite addictive and more physically addictive than marijuana for sure. However, if you look at society today I would argue there are far more daily cannabis users than daily kratom users. I would argue that cannabis is having a negative effect on the lives and emotional development of far more teens and young adults today than kratom is.

Of course partly this is due to cannabis being more popular but given that kratom is legal and has been around long enough now that most young people with any interest in drugs know about it and there is no huge stigma about it keeping people away from it, why is cannabis so much popular?

My overall point is that I see cannabis as a greater threat to the health of young people today than kratom. It's amazing how many young people I see today smoking weed every day and even taking dabs like it's just a normal thing to smoke weed/ dab every day. Personally I don't think it's normal or healthy and I think there is a greater risk for heavy marijuana use effecting emotional and psychological development.

That's not to downplay the risks of kratom, but like I said I don't think young people are abusing kratom to anywhere near the level they are abusing cannabis right now, hence the irony of the increasing legalization and promotion of cannabis while simultaneously banning kratom. If I get in my car I can't drive more than 5 miles without passing a billboard advertising legal cannabis. When I walk in the woods I find empty cannabis containers. If I ride my bike downtown I smell marijuana smoke. It didn't used to be like that, even 10 years ago it wasn't the norm to smell marijuana smoke in public on a regular bases.

I wonder if it's different in areas like where I am where it is displayed in gas stations and with electric signs on the door? I'm not sure, since I don't know any kids around here. I know a lot of people use it, not as many as weed though, for sure. It's pretty ubiquitous, but then, it was before we legalized it, too, among the people I knew and hung out with. Most of my friends my age started smoking between age 13 and 15, I didn't start until I was 17. There was no kratom back then, or any idea that weed would be legalized in my lifetime.

Weed and kratom should both be legal. I am not convinced that legalizing it is causing the huge increase in people smoking weed that you think it does. I'm sure there is some increase, but weed's been popular and common and easy to get for a long time.
 
Last edited:

burn out

Bluelighter
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Nov 11, 2006
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Michigan
I wonder if it's different in areas like where I am where it is displayed in gas stations and with electric signs on the door? I'm not sure, since I don't know any kids around here. I know a lot of people use it, not as many as weed though, for sure. It's pretty ubiquitous, but then, it was before we legalized it, too, among the people I knew and hung out with. Most of my friends my age started smoking between age 13 and 15, I didn't start until I was 17. There was no kratom back then, or any idea that weed would be legalized in my lifetime.

Weed and kratom should both be legal. I am not convinced that legalizing it is causing the huge increase in people smoking weed that you think it does. I'm sure there is some increase, but weed's been popular and common and easy to get for a long time.

I'm curious where you are that you have electric signs about kratom. Is it in a major city? Here kratom is sold in smoke shops and an herb/nootropic store that sells a lot of legal psychoactives. I've only seen it in a couple gas stations and it was just small packs of capsules with a ridiculous price and no signs.

I also don't think marijuana legalization is causing a huge increase in people smoking weed, but when I think back to when I started smoking weed and how difficult getting primo buds could be sometimes (I mean I actually smoked weed with seeds in it, lol) it's hard to imagine the changes not leading to an increase in the amount of THC being consumed. I mean we used to use terms that are irrelevant now like "mids", "schwagg" and "beasters" for different grades of weed that were all below the quality of the bottom shelf weed at any dispensary now and we used to pay as much for decent quality "regs" as people do now for top shelf dispensary weed and that's without even taking inflation into account. Back then dabs were unheard of, hash was usually unavailable and you mainly had no choice of what strain you got or any idea what it was.

It's my theory that when price goes down and availability, quality and social acceptability all go up, people will use more of the drug in question. At least no one was dabbing every day back then, although for sure heavy users existed.

But I'm not trying to argue we should go back to cannabis prohibition, I am just pointing out the irony I see in banning kratom while at the same time relaxing cannabis laws. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
 

Xorkoth

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Doesn't make sense to me, either. I hope it doesn't get banned. I am in a quickly growing medium sized city that has a kava bar, so that says something I think. I mean like how there are Open signs in windows... there is one that says "kratom". Most gas stations have display stands. One gas station I tend to get it from has prices down to almost online prices from a local supplier, not sure how they make any profit. For a while it was insane prices with little selection, now between a few gas stations I can get pretty great prices whether I want extracts or powder.
 

Las Veghost grower

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Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
887
Location
Las Vegas
It’s don’t make sense it makes dollars…cannabis is different cause it is now being researched and more people are accepting that it is a legitimate medicine, and it works, really well in some cases and for a wide variety of conditions and a lot of people fought for a long time to get where we are. Also Philip Morris is getting into the weed game an other tobacco giants, We’ll see where that goes… on the other hand kratom is pretty opiate specific for the time being and it’s obviously a threat to subs and methadone
 

Burnt Offerings

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
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USA
r but given that kratom is legal and has been around long enough now that most young people with any interest in drugs know about it and there is no huge stigma about it keeping people away from it, why is cannabis so much popular?

Cannabis has a lot more history behind it, at least here in the USA. I probably didn't even know what kratom was 10 years ago. Outside of some recreational drug subcultures it's still not super well-known, whereas everyone knows what weed is
 

burn out

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
7,667
Location
Michigan
It doesn't actually have that much history behind it though, does it? I mean wasn't marijuana very rarely used in the United States at the turn of last century and didn't it not really become popular until the 1960s?

Something that I've always wondered is why kratom and kava aren't more popular. They are both every bit as good as marijuana in their own ways and they're both legal. I guess with kava a lot of people think it doesn't work because they tried some pills or something.

I dunno, I guess another irony is how much effort, how many billions of dollars have been spent trying to enforce marijuana laws and all the while there are perfectly legal plants that can be just as much fun as marijuana and yet only a small fraction of people are using them compared to marijuana.
 

Burnt Offerings

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I mean, I don't think it was necessarily widely used for much of its history, but people here in the states have been messing around with it for a long time. A hell of a lot longer than with kratom anyway

But I do agree with you in that I wonder why kratom isn't more popular sometimes too
 

burn out

Bluelighter
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Messages
7,667
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Michigan
I mean, I don't think it was necessarily widely used for much of its history, but people here in the states have been messing around with it for a long time. A hell of a lot longer than with kratom anyway

But I do agree with you in that I wonder why kratom isn't more popular sometimes too

That is true there were people messing around with it but that brings me to another question which is why it didn't become popular until the 1960s. It's not like Americans didn't like drugs before that, when you consider that opium, tobacco, cocaine and morphine were all fairly popular, so much so that the government banned opiates and cocaine due to the widespread addiction issues they were causing. Why wasn't cannabis popular amongst American drug users back in those days? Why weren't doctors more interested in it, considering their at times liberal prescribing of drugs like opium and cocaine?
 

bluemonkey

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Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
176
I got good news in my email this morning. The AKA successfully pushed for a court order mandating that the FDA reopen comments until August 24th. If you have not already done so please go to https://www.protectkratom.org/whocomments to submit your kratom story. People who know you well like your friends and family can also submit comments about how kratom has helped you.

Anyone who wants to comment but doesn’t feel comfortable sharing their email address can create an email address just for this by putting whatever they want in front of @ikfam.33mail.com.

Doing that will ensure that any resulting junk mail gets forwarded to me instead of showing up in your inbox. Please let me know if you use it and the full address you created with it so I can turn off that address if needed.

Alternatively, 33 mail is free and easy to create an account. I just offer mine to make things as easy as possible for even the most technologically challenged

Important: the American kratom association is asking people to submit comments through their website even if they have already commented to the FDA directly because the FDA doesn’t have to present the comments it receives. They only have to “ consider” them. So the best way to ensure your voice is heard is probably to use the link above.

They say that they have 50K comments already and are aiming for 75K+ now.

This deadline extension is one victory let’s keep trying for the next!
 

negrogesic

Moderator: BDD, OD
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Negronesia
Lets hope the american kratom association can help do it again.

The kratom industry is big, somewhere slightly north of a billion dollars a year in the US (something like $1.2B). Then again thats around 1/100th the size of the marijuana industry. Still pretty big (thats what she said).
 

JackARoe

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
1,701
Good to see the AKA in communications with the proper people.

We will win again. Kratom saved me. Between us I don't even think I should be alive. Like my path was one of OD'ing but kratom extended my life. I wish I knew why. lol

My stories was one of association and mentioned some other herbals I do. I even through in turmeric in the story. :) I like to keep the stuff in the herbal column for people. Since we already have herb shops. Association does work. (and I can hear some people saying kratom ruined their life and is a drug but frigg em, I needed to associate to herbals for this)

But yes incredible momentum from the good side. If you have doubts just meditate on the DEA backing off. So much momentum. It is hard to outlaw plants. Delta 8 snuck itself in. lol
 
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