Misc Kratom -- Anyone?

[scarlet_tunic]

OK so I know there's a thread on kratom, but I'd like to post something here so I can get some recent input on it.

I've been taking it for 2 years now (just about) and although it's addicting as hell, the worst it is is something fun to do in the evening. I liken it to smoking a joint. Except I don't like weed. It's addicting in that when the evening comes, I usually want to do some. However, during the day when my mind is preoccupied with work and other things I don't think about it. It's sort of like... coffee is my drug during the day, and kratom is my drug during the night. I am not proud of the frequency with which I take it in the evening (usually every night, with one or two days off during the week), but it hasn't completely been ruining my life. It's sort of like someone having a glass or two of wine every night. Has anyone had this experience with kratom? Or has anyone taken this drug at all?

Share your experiences.
Thank you

 

[Mycophile]

OK so I know there's a thread on kratom, but I'd like to post something here so I can get some recent input on it.

I've been taking it for 2 years now (just about) and although it's addicting as hell, the worst it is is something fun to do in the evening. I liken it to smoking a joint. Except I don't like weed. It's addicting in that when the evening comes, I usually want to do some. However, during the day when my mind is preoccupied with work and other things I don't think about it. It's sort of like... coffee is my drug during the day, and kratom is my drug during the night. I am not proud of the frequency with which I take it in the evening (usually every night, with one or two days off during the week), but it hasn't completely been ruining my life. It's sort of like someone having a glass or two of wine every night. Has anyone had this experience with kratom? Or has anyone taken this drug at all?

Share your experiences.
Thank you

Lots of people on this forum love Kratom.

I don't use it more than 2-3 days a week because I don't want to become physically dependent/addicted but mentally speaking I am kind of addicted and it can be hard to resist.

What I don't understand is how you take Kratom at night and manage to sleep!!!

I LITERALLY cannot sleep a wink for AT LEAST like 6 hours AFTER the Kratom has WORN OFF...meaning that for me Kratom lasts about 4 hours so if it kicked in at 8PM and lasted till midnight I cannot fall asleep until at least like 6 or 7AM.

For that reason I ALWAYS take it as early in the day as possible.

I know some other people who can take it at night but also have talked to several people who can't sleep on it like me.

It's far too stimulating for me to sleep on...granted I have a HUGE caffeine habit which may add to it...but can sleep fine on that so no...it's definitely the Kratom.

Kratom and sleep do not work together for me.

 

[SS373dOH]

^ This is because some strains are stimulating, and others are relaxing, just like weed strains.

@ Scarlet, oh half of BL has taken kratom! It's a very popular substance around here. That's good you have self control with it, I approve the use of kratom for this reason, it gives off a decent buzz, but it's not mind blowingly euphoric, to the point where people crave it around the clock, like heroin. However it still is physically addicting, have you gone an extended period of time, without taking it? Were you addicted to opiates, before your kratom use?


- SS373dOH Soul

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

I think it's more dose dependent than strain dependent. Higher doses being more sedating.

 

[SterlingM.Archer]

I think it's more dose dependent than strain dependent. Higher doses being more sedating.

Most likely a factor as well, but I recently obtained two distinctly different strains. One claiming to be more stimulating w/ reviews that said the same. And the same for one that was more sedating. I took the stim. In the morning and the sedating one at night. It was great. Although when I first got it I took ago 2-3GS of each and it was pretty rough lol. Got sick after like 3 hours but that was the only time. I'm guessing since it was the first time taking quality stuff as opposed to what I had done previously from a headshop. Smooth sailing after that though. And yes it worked great to give me energy throughout the day and the chill out and sleep at night.

 

[SS373dOH]

I think it's more dose dependent than strain dependent. Higher doses being more sedating.

Well dosing will definitely affect it, but there's specific strains geared towards either stim', or sedation.



- SS373dOH Soul

 

[MoreFeens4Morphine]

I genuinely don't see a problem with you taking it every night as long as it's in a moderate amount. Unfortunately I wasn't the most responsible user and I experienced some pretty bad side effects. I just don't waste my money on it anymore. I wish it was something for me but it just isn't.

The only thing I would advise is to monitor your tolerance. Once you start eating 10g> of leaf/powder you're stomach will get quite fucked up.

Stay safe,
-MF4M

 

[scarlet_tunic]

^ This is because some strains are stimulating, and others are relaxing, just like weed strains.

@ Scarlet, oh half of BL has taken kratom! It's a very popular substance around here. That's good you have self control with it, I approve the use of kratom for this reason, it gives off a decent buzz, but it's not mind blowingly euphoric, to the point where people crave it around the clock, like heroin. However it still is physically addicting, have you gone an extended period of time, without taking it? Were you addicted to opiates, before your kratom use?


- SS373dOH Soul

First of all I appreciate all of the replies! These forums are very nice.. people are friendly. I had a bad experience with another forums.

I wouldn't say control is really a good word to use... doing it 6 nights a week non-stop isn't really control -- at least not according to me. Control is being able to say no and to take breaks if just for the sake of taking breaks. My kratom use has been up and down.. last summer due to working a lot I was taking it 5 - 6 days a week non-stop. I tapered it down to 4 nights, and then it kind of rocketed back up to 5 nights. At Christmas it was everyday again. I remember when I started and it used to be a 'treat,' like 3 nights a week or only on the weekend. I am trying to get to that point. My BF is getting frustrated because he doesn't think I can cut it, and if we plan to have a family I can't be doing kratom when I'm pregnant.. (not that that is close to happening but maybe in a few years). I just feel like I disappointed him by doing it so many days in a week, and I disappoint myself too. So no.. it's not exactly like I crave it the next morning (oh God no, when I wake up I want anything but kratom) or even in the afternoon... but I do crave it at night immensely.

I was even going to throw it out this morning, but I realized that if I did, I would just be buying it from the local head shop.

I am going to try to hold off on it tonight... I hope I can come back here and have all of your support! :D

Oh yeah, and about the sedating vs. stimulating effects... I am a kratom expert so I will tell you that essentially, all the strains are the same. It's HOW MUCH you take. If you take 3 - 4 teaspoons of anything it will sedate you, whether it's borneo red or maeng da. This is why I always order the simple cheap strains...

 

[morphine-dreams]

Yes, I think that's quite common with kratom, or any pleasant sunstance really. You enjoy it, so you use it regularly, but not to the point that it starts detrimentally affecting your life. It's good that you're not redosing, seems that you're avoiding physical dependence that way. Honestly, I think you're ok here. All of us have some type of vice, I smoke weed every night. Nightly kratom use seems to be one of the least harmful ones, and the fact that you've been using for 2 years without (presumably) developing an opioid problem is a good thing. This thread is a great example of why kratom should remain legal IMO, I agree that it's not far different from a nightly bowl or morning coffee. Just stay away from the enhanced versions.

 

[Snake_Eyes]

I think it's more dose dependent than strain dependent. Higher doses being more sedating.

In Mycophile case it's not from dosing too low his doses are or at least were ridiculously high.

 

[Mycophile]

First of all I appreciate all of the replies! These forums are very nice.. people are friendly. I had a bad experience with another forums.

I wouldn't say control is really a good word to use... doing it 6 nights a week non-stop isn't really control -- at least not according to me. Control is being able to say no and to take breaks if just for the sake of taking breaks. My kratom use has been up and down.. last summer due to working a lot I was taking it 5 - 6 days a week non-stop. I tapered it down to 4 nights, and then it kind of rocketed back up to 5 nights. At Christmas it was everyday again. I remember when I started and it used to be a 'treat,' like 3 nights a week or only on the weekend. I am trying to get to that point. My BF is getting frustrated because he doesn't think I can cut it, and if we plan to have a family I can't be doing kratom when I'm pregnant.. (not that that is close to happening but maybe in a few years). I just feel like I disappointed him by doing it so many days in a week, and I disappoint myself too. So no.. it's not exactly like I crave it the next morning (oh God no, when I wake up I want anything but kratom) or even in the afternoon... but I do crave it at night immensely.

I was even going to throw it out this morning, but I realized that if I did, I would just be buying it from the local head shop.

I am going to try to hold off on it tonight... I hope I can come back here and have all of your support! :D

Oh yeah, and about the sedating vs. stimulating effects... I am a kratom expert so I will tell you that essentially, all the strains are the same. It's HOW MUCH you take. If you take 3 - 4 teaspoons of anything it will sedate you, whether it's borneo red or maeng da. This is why I always order the simple cheap strains...

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

Although I don't take Kratom nearly as often as you and rarely exceed 3 days a week my tolerance is MASSIVE due to having been irresponsible in the QUANTITIES I took in one shot, even though I was quite responsible in taking breaks not to get dependent, so I fucked up my tolerance while still being able to stave off physical dependence.

Now I cannot get high on anything less than 7 grams and that's about 4 teaspoons for me and that will be a VERY VERY mild high for me, barely even a high at all, just a bit of energy and light mood lift.

To get a PROPER high I NEED to consume AT LEAST 10 grams which I guess is probably like 6 teaspoons, not sure....depends on strain...but to get REALLY high I have to take 12 grams or more and generally when I dose to get as high as possible my dosage ranges between 14--18 grams.

Now while it IS true that when I take an 18 gram dose I will usually get quite sedated for part of the experience, I will still USUALLY have at least PART of the experience also be a stimulant effect.

And yet...Even if the ENTIRE experience FEELS sedating....and I have had that happen...it doesn't matter for me when it is time to go to bed...I STILL can't sleep.

I can swallow as much Kratom as I want and get as sedated as I want, the most that will happen is I MIGHT be lucky enough to "nod off" for a second or two but then my eyes will pop wide open again one minute later all night long.

In fact, even if I THINK I waited long enough to dose before bed I quite often sleep lightly and badly and will find myself waking up almost every hour throughout the night in the middle of a thought almost unaware that I am even awake at all for a few minutes before I stop to think "oh wait...Im awake....was I asleep??"


So NO....in my case, sedating effect while high on Kratom does not necessarily = being able to fall asleep once it wears off and DEFINITELY not while on it (which would be a waste IMO anyway).

Kratom is an odd substance and effects everyone differently.

 

[Mycophile]

In Mycophile case it's not from dosing too low his doses are or at least were ridiculously high.

Yes, you are right, they still are, but luckily I got them back down from what they WERE at one point when I was actually up to taking an ounce a day and it was pretty bad and i stopped for months.

Now, even though it's STILL an insane amount...I never exceed 18.5 grams in a day..that's my cut off lol....but I sometimes stop at 12--14 grams if that feels right or I may have "lighter" days where I am afraid to take a "proper" dose but will just dose anywhere from 7--10 grams and get a nice mood boost.

In the end though...it doesn't really matter for me NOW as long as I don't exceed that except in the fact that if I do choose to go that high I will often have MILD WD for a day or two afterwards...nothing really bad but I just won't feel like doing anything that requires much effort lol...which is a bit of a problem so I'm thinking of taking another break just to prove I can do it.

But the lower I dose the less likely I am to feel out of it the next day.

It's still not a big deal anymore in the sense that at one point I THOUGHT I had PERMANENTLY ruined Kratom for myself but a tolerance break was able to get it back to this point where even though my doses are still ridiculously high they aren't OBSENE like they were and if I dose carefully and deal with a little fatigue the next day I can usually get away with dosing twice a week and still never build a "DEEP" or unbearable level of physical dependence or raise my tolerance higher than it already is.

So for now...I'm happy and just not exceeding that.

 

[scarlet_tunic]

I got off it for one night and ended up not sleeping and getting sick the next day Not only that but I had anxiety and restlessness... I now have a sinus infection too. I am not sure this is related to the withdrawals. I have had mild withdrawals before (tired the next day, not enough sleep, etc...) but this was really something else. I was off it for one day but since I became sick and my chest hurt, I took a couple of T3's just to help me sleep last night. Today my shipment is kratom came in so I am going to do that in the evening. Yeah, I think this is definitely a dependence of some sort. I only do it at night and during the day I go about my business... feeling a little anxious but good. Went for a jog today before work... I don't know. I think it's something I've come to enjoy at night and I could go without it but I get bored and end up going to bed early.

 

[scarlet_tunic]

Yes, you are right, they still are, but luckily I got them back down from what they WERE at one point when I was actually up to taking an ounce a day and it was pretty bad and i stopped for months.

Now, even though it's STILL an insane amount...I never exceed 18.5 grams in a day..that's my cut off lol....but I sometimes stop at 12--14 grams if that feels right or I may have "lighter" days where I am afraid to take a "proper" dose but will just dose anywhere from 7--10 grams and get a nice mood boost.

In the end though...it doesn't really matter for me NOW as long as I don't exceed that except in the fact that if I do choose to go that high I will often have MILD WD for a day or two afterwards...nothing really bad but I just won't feel like doing anything that requires much effort lol...which is a bit of a problem so I'm thinking of taking another break just to prove I can do it.

But the lower I dose the less likely I am to feel out of it the next day.

It's still not a big deal anymore in the sense that at one point I THOUGHT I had PERMANENTLY ruined Kratom for myself but a tolerance break was able to get it back to this point where even though my doses are still ridiculously high they aren't OBSENE like they were and if I dose carefully and deal with a little fatigue the next day I can usually get away with dosing twice a week and still never build a "DEEP" or unbearable level of physical dependence or raise my tolerance higher than it already is.

So for now...I'm happy and just not exceeding that.

interesting... For me, I usually don't do more than 4 teaspoons, which is probably about 10 grams. Sometimes I'll put it up to 4.5. I tend to take it on a fairly empty stomach and then eat after when I'm buzzed. From all of my friends who have tried it I'm the only one who seems to enjoy it, and who gets THAT much out of it. My friends just say they get tired / sleepy.

I agree with you with the fatigue; I don't know why this time was a full-on sleepless night and getting sick. Usually I just sleep a little bit lighter and am a little tired the next day, with no change to mood. I've been doing it for 2 weeks every night straight with only 2 days in between that entire 2 weeks.. maybe that's why the withdrawals were hard. The thing with me is that I don't want it at all until it comes to when I'm relaxing at home at night with nothing else to do.. when I can sit down and make my tea and chill.. I liken it to a bit of a smoking habit. I can definitely go without it, but I get a bit antsy and I have to do something to occupy my mind. I have also started drinking chamomile and other teas on days I don't do kratom.

 

[shadowstryker]

What's everyone's average dose? I usually need 60-70g for a sedating high. I also take it 4-5 times a week though and I'm slowly starting to fear I'll become physically addicted. I work at a smokeshop where I get a 25% discount on all my kratom which doesn't help much..

 

[scarlet_tunic]

What's everyone's average dose? I usually need 60-70g for a sedating high. I also take it 4-5 times a week though and I'm slowly starting to fear I'll become physically addicted. I work at a smokeshop where I get a 25% discount on all my kratom which doesn't help much..

Do you get it for cheaper than an online vendor? I doubt it.. look up online vendors. 60 - 70 grams.. are you sure? It takes about 8 - 12 grams to get the sedating high. At that dose you'd probably just get really sick and throw up. Welcome to the club. I used to do it 2 times a week, then 3.. then it went up to 4 and 5. Now it's hovering between 5 and 6, depending on the week.. I have YET to upgrade to the almighty 7 8)

Are you physically addicted... that would depend... do you feel physically ill without it? For me, I am fine in the morning and during the day when I go about doing my duties. It's only at night when I crave it, because I feel like I want to relax after my day is over. I am a freelance writer too and don't tell anyone but if I have an assignment I'll also sometimes write it in the evening with some kratom Kratom also helps with the cramps and muscle aches I get as a result of being a jogger

 

[CfZrx]

3 or 4 grams is fine with me. i use for pain, about 3 times daily.

 

[shadowstryker]

Do you get it for cheaper than an online vendor? I doubt it.. look up online vendors. 60 - 70 grams.. are you sure? It takes about 8 - 12 grams to get the sedating high. At that dose you'd probably just get really sick and throw up. Welcome to the club. I used to do it 2 times a week, then 3.. then it went up to 4 and 5. Now it's hovering between 5 and 6, depending on the week.. I have YET to upgrade to the almighty 7 8)

Are you physically addicted... that would depend... do you feel physically ill without it? For me, I am fine in the morning and during the day when I go about doing my duties. It's only at night when I crave it, because I feel like I want to relax after my day is over. I am a freelance writer too and don't tell anyone but if I have an assignment I'll also sometimes write it in the evening with some kratom Kratom also helps with the cramps and muscle aches I get as a result of being a jogger

I get it pretty cheap, and I use kratom extracts so I don't have to literally eat 70g of kratom now, but yes I'm positive I dose 60-70g. I don't know if it'd effect my tolerance to kratom or not but I was also pretty addicted to heroin for a while, and still use occasionally, so I feel like I have a high tolerance to kratom from that.

 

[Znegative]

You know my dosage of kratom varies wildly depending on how much of it I have. Usually I'll get 1kg of one strand or I'll get a lb of one strand and 10oz of another, but anyway, when I first get it I inevitably start taking irresponsibly high dosages, usually 7g about 4-5x a day. Then after a week I'll look at what I have and realize I'm kind of in trouble, so I'll start tapering down, taking around 5g-4xday, and then when I'm really getting down to the bottom of the stash I'll start taking 2-3g-4x day. What I like about kratom is that it's actually really easy to taper your dose down within a few days, and the truth of the matter is that I actually feel lower dosages much more then I do higher ones.

I just got another kg, some green borneo, and I'm going to try and not fall into that pattern. It's just difficult, after being a heroin addict for so many years to not try and chase some high. Kratom is in a way like buprenorphine in the way that it's self limiting, but it's a bit more flexible. For instance, say I've tapered down to 2-3g dosages, then re-up on a kilo and take 7-8g in one go-I will definitely feel that dose much more then the 2-3g. But after a few days of doing that, I don't feel it much at all, and it doesn't really make a difference if I double that dose, or even triple it. I've heard some speculation that the self limiting properties found in kratom might have to do with certain alkaloids being opioid antagonists, but I think it's more of a matter of my body only being able to break down so much kratom at a time.

On the other hand, with tea, it's much less limiting. I imagine this is because the alkaloids that are water soluble are already extracted, so your body's not trying to get through all that nasty plant matter. Unfortunately making the tea is also kind of wasteful. When I'm done with my outpatient program I'm going to do another alcohol extraction and then use the leftover plant matter to do a water extraction. I did this before and interestingly enough the water extraction produced much more pronounced sedative effects then usual, which makes me think that maybe the alcohol extracts some of the more stimulating alkaloids? IDK, kratom is a weird but very interesting plant.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Just throwing some experience into the pile...

I've been an avid kratom user for....jeez going on ~5 years now give or take a year. I've been using daily with minimal breaks for a little over half of that time. My dose varies from ~7-9 grams, often twice a day on a habitual routine: Once in the morning after waking up, and another after lunch. Occasionally, I'll take a third dose at night but that's rare. I've shared kratom with many friends who have absolutely loved it, none have reported any issues, and I even have a few friends with kicked-harder-opiates-with-kratom stories to tell. Even with my usage at this level, I've stopped cold turkey many times before (WITHOUT any aides like weed or benzos) with minimal "withdrawal" symptoms, hard to even call them that. The absolute worst symptom is insomnia, and that only lasts a few days, if that. Nothing some benedryl and a couple glasses of wine can't fix, especially if you have some weed. This week, I'm trying to lower my tolerance simply to get better effects from my doses, so I've been lowering my habitual dose every day by literally a full gram each day. Hasn't made a difference to my days or nights whatsoever! No anxiety, no insomnia, no cold sweats, no potty issues, no depression, no craving, absolutely nothing. I've had things like phenibut, prolintane, and percocet cause more immediate dependence and subsequent withdrawal effects within a matter of days of use/abuse. Kratom and I are going on years, and we're still friends. Shit, even not having weed to smoke makes me drink like a fish... But kratom? Whatever.

I'd be lying if I said the thought of "I might be doing some harm by using this often, this much, and for this long" hasn't crossed my mind. However, I really have to say, nothing bad has happened, or seems to be happening. I never have any potty problems, I poop quite regularly and healthily. I have a healthy appetite too. I haven't ever experienced the mythical "jaundice" (which I believe was dis-proven anyway). I often check myself by skipping a dose, and aside from simply feeling like a part of my routine is missing, nothing bad happens at all. ANY distraction and it's out of my head. At this point, kratom and coffee are nearly on par with each other regarding their contribution to my daily life and their importance. There is not a single aspect of my life or my usage that is representative of a typical opioid-addicted person's lifestyle (and no, I'm not thinking that Requiem for a Dream is a typical addict's life...).

There is one thing I will say though. YOU CAN'T TREAT KRATOM LIKE A RECREATIONAL DRUG. Not only will you be disappointed, but you'll be sick from shoveling too much leaf into your face trying to force a "high", and you'll convince yourself of false things which leads to placebo withdrawals and side-effects. Kratom does not get you HIGH, it's not meant for that!! Kratom is an experience-enhancer, not an experience-maker. If you have disorienting effects, strong sedation, nodding, anything like that, you're taking way too much for your body. My dose is high due to years of tolerance building atop an already strong opioid tolerance, not because I'm trying to nod off. Maybe it's because I have this attitude towards kratom that it hasn't caused me any issues?

Keep kratom legal by not trying to get high on it. If people were selling coffee in headshops with names like "MegaEUPHORIA" or "Herbal Ecstasy" and idiots kept trying to get twacked out on it and kept ending up in ER's, that'd become illegal soon too. Kratom is doomed due to fuck heads and I'm pissed about it. You're going to get a good thing taken away from me and thousands of other responsible users because a few idiots who are too scared to try heroin or too anti-social to score some pills keep trying to get "smacked-out" on 20g's of ground up leaves....