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Opioids Kratom and Opiates

It's all relative dose and BA. Also lower dissociation constants = higher affinity (mostly)
 
Man in the Dark said:
Have a question. I am trying to taper off my prescribed pain meds and eventually come off. Can I use Kratom in the morning/ afternoon and my opiates at night. I am new to Kratom so any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
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I do that all the time. I get wds from oxycodone which I only take at night and have for about two years. At some point I started feeling like half dead shit in the afternoon. I took about five grams of Kratom and that took care of it nicely. I do that most days now.
 
Man in the dark and others, usage of opiates can be used correctly and a person can totally have a normal life. We are here to educate and make sure that people are safe with them on there own and in combination with other drugs. Harm reduction first and formost.
 
Tramadol is a weak opioid so people have to relatively large doses. That's also the receptor activity for tramadol not the demethylated metabolite. It's just another example of a opioid with kappa activity. It probably make a little contribution, but adds analgesia to some effect
 
oxycodone has kappa opioid activity as well. long term use has been assoiciated with the development of hallucinations and psychotomimetic symptoms in some individuals; as the mu receptors downregulate, the kappa receptors become more active
 
theGirlWithBlueHair said:
oxycodone has kappa opioid activity as well. long term use has been assoiciated with the development of hallucinations and psychotomimetic symptoms in some individuals; as the mu receptors downregulate, the kappa receptors become more active
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Thats interesting. I didn't know that was associated with kappa axtivity
 
I wonder if this could possibly happen with long term, very high dose usage of kratom, as well. What do you think? Is it a possibility at all?
 
theGirlWithBlueHair said:
It does work, but do still expect some withdrawal symptoms. Kratom mainly works on the delta opioid receptors, and not the mu opioid receptors, which the pharmaceutical narcotics work on. Try to keep your dosages of the kratom high, because at high doses, it does exhibit some mu activity.
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I just read an article on a new supposedly non addictive opiate with euphoric effects that mitigate addiction due to the dual action at the mu and delta receptor... At least I think it was that. The compound was called UMB425. Can't wait until that hits the RC scene (hint hint)
 
tacodude said:
I just read an article on a new supposedly non addictive opiate with euphoric effects that mitigate addiction due to the dual action at the mu and delta receptor... At least I think it was that. The compound was called UMB425. Can't wait until that hits the RC scene (hint hint)
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I would be careful. Delta agonists are associated with seizures.

I'm really not sure if the kappa activity is cause for concern with kratom. I doubt you would be able to reach a high enough dose to cause that problem. People can reach some crazy high doses with oxy
 
I'm talking about constant, long-term, high dosage use. Like the long term-use of therapeutic dosages of oxycodone that can lead to psychotomimetic behaviour in some individuals. I didn't mean acute dosages.
 
Speed King said:
Man in the dark and others, usage of opiates can be used correctly and a person can totally have a normal life. We are here to educate and make sure that people are safe with them on there own and in combination with other drugs. Harm reduction first and formost.
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There's nothing normal about my life but I think drugs only have an minimal effect on that. 8(
 
Slow_Mobius said:
Tramadol is a weak opioid so people have to relatively large doses. That's also the receptor activity for tramadol not the demethylated metabolite. It's just another example of a opioid with kappa activity. It probably make a little contribution, but adds analgesia to some effect
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I doubt it. If the kappa opioid activity contributed slightly to the euphoria, it would also contribute other effects typical of agonism of this receptor: anxiety, depression, dysphoria, some mild pseudo-"psychotomimetic" symptoms (such as intense daydreaming with milde CEVs, intense nightmares, some mild visuals possibly - high agonism isn't necessarily required for these effects; if low agonism can cause analgesia, it can also precipitate other kappa effects.).

Just like hyrdroxyzine, which has D2 antagonism in the microM. And that doesn't contribute anything to clinical effects. It is only felt in overdoses.
 
theGirlWithBlueHair said:
I doubt it. If the kappa opioid activity contributed slightly to the euphoria, it would also contribute other effects typical of agonism of this receptor: anxiety, depression, dysphoria, some mild pseudo-"psychotomimetic" symptoms (such as intense daydreaming with milde CEVs, intense nightmares, some mild visuals possibly - high agonism isn't necessarily required for these effects; if low agonism can cause analgesia, it can also precipitate other kappa effects.).

Just like hyrdroxyzine, which has D2 antagonism in the microM. And that doesn't contribute anything to clinical effects. It is only felt in overdoses.
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By that logic, oxycodone should be causing these effects as well. There's clinical evidence of kappa agonism contributing to analgesia, and much stronger agonists--like salvinorin analogues--produce the effects you mentioned. Also analgesia doesn't neccessarily correspond to euphoria.

The study you posted even showed evidence of kappa agonism causing analgesia at doses that do not cause the effects seen with high affinity kappa agonists.
 
I wasn't talking about commonly. I was just meaning that it could. Which it does with oxycodone sometimes, and could with other narcotics with kappa opioid activity.

I just doubt the kappa opioid activity of tramadol has any relevance to its clinical effects.
 
I bought kratom a few weeks ago to can detox more easily of Suboxone, after gradually taper. I was on it 7 months after 4 years of opiate abuse managing chronic pain. I heard about abstinence and tolerance of kratom, some people says it doesn't have and some people says yes indeed. I've taken kratom almost 10 days and feels good (my tolerance has increased but good), less than 10-8 grams by day. But lately, 10 hours more or less after my last dose, I experiment cold sweats, body pain and a bit lethargy...


Kratom helped me a lot with the week after stop Suboxone, miraculous really, but now I'm having withdrawals symptoms of kratom. I thought in stop use it the next 2-3 days, and later only use in alternal days not daily use. I can have withdrawals symptoms even with a irregular consume?


Thanks in advance
 
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