Kratom addiction

Shadowmeister

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I've been searching all over this forum and have yet to discover anything conclusive on this topic.

So a little background. I started using kratom about 2 years ago. I loved, and still love it. I got physically addicted very quickly, since I started using it every day almost from the start. However, since I had a ready supply, I didn't realize it until I'd been taking large doses 1-3 times a day for over 6 months. Then, I decided I had fucked up my credit card balance enough, and decided to quit. I was unprepared for the severe and disturbing withdrawals I experienced. That episode sparked a period of depression in my life that took a long time to recover from. Mostly, all I could do was lay in my bed on the verge of panic and tears, knowing I had no reason to be depressed but unable to help it. To make matters worse, sleeping was impossible and I got virtually none for 5 days, due to extreme restlessness of the limbs (I just had to thrash about when I tried to be still, very strange).

Well, after day 5, I was back to normal physically, but I had ordered kratom during the second day of withdrawal and it arrived just as I finished detoxing. So I started again. Of course I got addicted again. I withdrew again, but tapered off this time so it was easier. Then, last summer, I had a lot of cash so I decided to get some more kratom to have some summer fun with, and of course I didn't moderate my usage as I told myself to, and got addicted again. About 6 months ago, I reached the peak of this depression that was caused by unrelated factors but exacerbated by the kratom addiction, and I broke free of it with self-induced psychedelic therapy. I withdrew again for exactly 5 days, which was terrible, but I was able to put it into perspective.

But I ordered more, reasoning that I hate alcohol and love kratom, and I wanted something to use from time to time. Plus, I love it for coming down off a psychedelics which I use occasionally. I was very good about it for a while, using it only on the weekends. But soon enough, I began craving it more and more, until I started using lower doses 2 times a day. very regularly. About noon and 6:30pm every day. This was up until two days ago at noon - my last dose. I had ordered more, but it turned out to be on back order and will be coming in two weeks. So I'm going to have to withdraw, and in fact yesterday afternoon, 24 hours after my last dose, it began. It got bad last night, and will probably get worse. I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do to help ease it? Xanax has helped barely at all, and it makes me a stumbling zombie besides. I hear loperamide can help with real opiate detox, but I don't know if this transfers to kratom, and it may just be because of the stomach issues, which I don't have. Any ideas? Please? Anything I can do to help? I can't stand sleepless nights of feeling like I'm about to crawl out of my skin, and the aching muscles.

Any suggestions? Besides not getting addicted for a fifth time after I'm clean again?
 

restless-nemesis

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i really can't say what could help becuase you have just informed me of its existence... having read about it, to be honest, has made me want to try it, but being addicted can't be pleasant... i guess using some opiate like substance to wean yourself off it would be best... like codeine, percocets or others, just not heroin and i guess preferabely not opium or morhine!

its a weird drug, would you say you became mainly stimulated or sedated on it? it says that high doses are sedating and low are stimulating which is odd i guess... so depending on what you feel from it would guide you toward an alternative, tho i'm really not informed about the various multitudes of drugs out there... how bout a nice bump of K instead? i've read that this can help with addictions...
 

Shadowmeister

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yeah, I decided to break it off after my first K experience the other night, and at first i thought I'd magically escaped physical addiction. But then it set in.

Just be careful, like with any other opiate. You're not going to get addicted if you use it non-regularly... even my girlfriend has been using it as long as I have, about 4 times a week, and has never had any sort of physical addiction whatsoever from it. I, on the other hand, always start using it every day, which creates the body's craving for it to feel normal.

So my synopsis of kratom's effects... both low and high doses are both sedating and stimulating. It begins quickly with a stimulant rush that feels amazingly natural and clean, and absolutely not at all jittery. it makes me feel very talkative, very euphoric, and physically animated. it also makes me have to fart or take a crap, whichever is necessary, like other stimulants do. This phase is the reason I love it so much.

Then the stimulation smoothly fades and leaves a sedation, which is weak at low doses but strong at high doses. Mixing with cannabis at this point makes the experience FAR more complete and excellent, and the two combine to form an effect that is greater than the sum of their parts. The sedation is, basically, like an opiate sedation. because it essentially is.

As for dosage, I can't comprehend the people who claim to take large amounts. When I first started doing it, I was getting crushed leaf pieces and doing the whole double extraction thing. At that point, I got very strong effects, but I used 12-15 grams each time. Basically, each order seems to have gotten stronger, to the point where now, years later after being addicted on and off, I only use 4-6 grams per dose, and more than that makes me unpleasantly dizzy. Important to note is that I use finely ground leaf material now, and since greater surface area = greater extraction rate, well, that may be part of the reason why. I don't even do the two 20-minute extractions anymore. I just dump the powder into boiling water in a mug, wait for it to cool enough to drink, and drink it.

I've really got to stop talking about this... but kratom is on its way to illegality. Mark my words. Hopefully my advice helps you, and don't make the same mistake I did.
 

slippy sleeveen

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I thought I might chime in again (responded in another thread).

Subbing in ketamine to help with any sort of addiction does work to a degree, but for some of us, ketamine is addictive. I ended up well addicted to it for about 6 months, using it every night of the week, save perhaps one day. The funny part of it all was that nobody knew until I quit. I had some ventures with DXM that proved worthwhile and with 600mg + doses I would end up in the same places ketamine took me but without the need to take it more then once a week. I cut my dxm voyages to twice a month with a once a month k-hole and this is where I am now (going to attempt to cut the k to once every three months now and the dxm to once every couple of months).

This might be what you need to do with Kratom. Try to do whatever you can while you await it to arrive and when you do get it, FORCE yourself to spread it out. I know it is not easy but when you take it, don't think in the short-term of "oh this is niiice" but rather think the long-term of "now i'm f'cking on this shite again and can't get off". Moderation is key. One day when your priorities are different, perhaps kratom will no longer be high enough in that list to be worth ingesting. Until that day arrives, just moderate your usage.
 

yellodolphin

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clearly you are unable to moderate your kratom useage, therefore using it in moderation is not possible for you. So its your choice either you do it and are addicted or you dont at all.
 

Shadowmeister

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True, true.... isn't addiction fun? Of everything I've tried, I can honestly say the only one I wish I hadn't stumbled upon was kratom. Everything else I can moderate easily. Even real opiates don't make me crave more the way kratom does. And while I'm on kratom, I don't want more at all; in fact, I know I'll get dizzy and ruin it if I do. But a few hours after it fades, suddenly I realize it could return. I guess as a lover of psychedelics primarily, I find the empty feeling of opiates shallow and useless. But kratom, the trickster, contains many dimensions which make it quite appealing to me. I've known what the previous post says for quite some time now. What to do, what to do...
 

the prepster

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I'm bumping this up because Kratom hasn't gotten more popular in the last year, so I figure there might be some more info.

Also, I recently switched from the hard opiates (Oxy, methadone, heroin) to kratom. I'm still using the heavier ones ones once-n-a-while, but now I'm using the semi-legal ones (kratom, poppy pods, poppy seed) constantly. I'm going through almost an ounce of kratom a day, and it's seriously getting to be a big problem. Half of my brain tells me that -1. it's legal and 2. it's not as bad as the OCs that you've been hooked on for over 5 years.
 

patte4dm

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Were you addicted to the Krantom leaves? Thats all I see when I look up the word krantom. Iv never really heard much about it. Sorry if this has already been mentioned I didnt read all the posts.
 

patte4dm

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Why ask where to get it? This is entirely off topic. Legal or not, I don't think discussing sources is useful in sharing information regarding the unpleasant aspects of 'Kratom' addiction... 8)
 
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Bobdgnome

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you can get it from the internet, the only place it isn't legal in is thailand.

I doubt this thread was made with the intention of creating more 'Kratom' users.
 
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inode

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Searching for Kratom found a lot of AMT threads, this one seems the most germane to the use of the actual drug however.

I've never used Kratom and have recently come into the posession of some (extract) -- I will be careful not to dose more than once a week with this stuff once I get around to using it.

Thank you for creating this thread Xorkoth, before reading this I had no idea that this drug was so dangerous.
 

robatussin

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If i had an unlimites supply of kratom im sure i would have dependence, but with money being an issue and all, i am able to moderate my intake based on funds. I currently have a potent and not so potent extract on the way. if you can moderate your opiate use, you could try taking an opiate when the withdrawls kick in hard, and discontinue use when they wear off. BTW the lopramide only really helps with the shits associated with opiate withdrawl. if you are experiencing this, get some, if not then seek enough benzos to keep you calm, or substitute with something you can contol and ween. peace
 

B9

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I hear loperamide can help with real opiate detox,

It helps keep the shits manageable . Still in some ways Xorkoth Kratom sounds much much gentler than opiates/oids proper.
Why the need to use kratom so frequently ?

I found cannabis to be far superior to lofexidine(which is what I suspect you meant to say ) lofexidine helps a bit, but cannabis took my mind away , a precious commodity .
It may well be that this was because I never use it, so its efficacy was 100% . Habitual users i suspect would get a lot less relief from it than I did .
 

Shadowmeister

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An update I guess, since I just r-read this old thread of mine.

Since I posted this thread I've come a long way. I've managed to work my way into being the happiest I've ever been. I never stopped using kratom, but I have been somehow able to almost entirely eliminate the emotional dependence I have on kratom. I've withdrawn minorly twice since posting this thread, and both times were uncomfortable but did not cause me to become depressed or particularly anxious. Currently, for the past three weeks I haven't used kratom at all during the week, restricting it to weekends only. I realize I'm still standing at the brink of the slippery slope, but I've managed to eliminate the physical addiction. I still think about it at some point every day, but it's no longer such a compulsion.

And zophen, to answer your question: I don't know why I use it so often, or have used it so often. I guess it's the same reason anyone uses any drug habitually. It makes me feel good and is euphoric. kratom is much gentler than true opiates, and more complex as well. I find it much more fulfilling and emotionally beautiful. True opiates are, for the most part, boring and mentally dull for me
 

Shadowmeister

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What's the actual name for the chemical in that? Diconal sounds like a brand name.
 

B9

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What's the actual name for the chemical in that? Diconal sounds like a brand name.
Diconal = Dipipanone + cyclizine ~cyclizine is an anti histamine which definitely affects the experience, the idea being that it acts as an anti emetic as I recollect !
It isn't too bright to i.v. it as it only goes into suspension (visions of gangrenous limbs etcetera 8( :( :( ) Although i did it many times with no obvious ill effects!
One of the best ways to use it actually,y IMHO, is to down say a bottle of Cinzano and (depending on tolerance) as many Dikes as needed ~ for the uninitiated 1 or 2 (2 max) would do the trick. you get some sort of visuals in the first 45 minutes this way ~ it's very very very nice! Useless as a a substitute for heroin if you are a full time addict but as a drug for pleasure it's superior to Heroin ! IMHO , and a few others I know agree!
 

Shadowmeister

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Huh, interesting... I'd never heard of that. If it ever comes by I'll have to check it out.
 
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