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Kratom Addiction/ Need Help After Withdrawals Are Over

Beat It

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
87
The last 6 months have been by far the most productive of my life. Great grades in school (3.75 GPA) full time, full time job, working out everyday, reading a lot, writing a lot of music and living with my girlfriend. All thanks to Kratom, no other drugs were really used or needed. Kratom increases my motivation, helps with depression/anxiety, and helps me focus/ retain information. However, bank account is running thin and I'm outa school and lost my job so I didn't have the excuse to continue taking it. It was hard to quit, took a lot out of me. Despite what people say, when you use Kratom daily for a long time, the withdrawals are painful. Went through a lot of Ambien to sleep the first few days off and a bunch of Loperamide for my stomach and then had to sit through days 3-5 without anything to help. Finally got my Ambien prescription refilled but I'm taking too much of those 4/ day to sleep though night. I'm on day 8, Need some help. My stomach is well enough to eat but the depression/anxiety is killing me. Never had any problems with the drug until I got off of it. I know it just takes time but I want some relief now and something to help get my motivated to get out of bed. It feels like the Ambien is counterproductive but it's the only think that helps with the anxiety. Trying to get used to not having my super powers, feel like I've been crippled.
 
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andyn6990

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 18, 2010
Messages
37
Location
Cornwall, UK
Heya dude, Im currently having the same problem as you, Ive been taking kratom for about 6 months ive been finding it a wonder drug for my anxiety and depression issues, Im currently taking about 150 to 200g of bali a week , Ive tried kicking it and had a really awful time my depression was so bad i was having some psychotic symptoms and panic attacks i couldnt believe that kratom could do that and am now petrified to kick it again :-( Im currently about to try and taper down slowly and hope it works better , I wake up mornings and my head is so foggy and disconnected and all i think about is getting the kratom down and all the symptoms just dissapear, I would suggest tapering down slowly instead of just stopping cold turkey i think that was my big mistake last time i just didnt expect the horrid mental agonizing depression and panic i was getting, What kratom are you currently taking and what dosage? ,im doin toss and wash with the powder! This is a great place for support and everyone understands what your going through here ,Feel free to give me a pm sometime! Andy!
 

podsnomo

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
389
Location
mostly here
Beat and Andy, I know the fear you have of the depression/anxiety when it's not there, while you are on kratom, and the feeling shitty when you stop. I'm using Kratom now after a long taper down off of a ridiculous amount of poppy pod grounds.

For a taper, find your dose that makes you feel just normal. Drop by 25-30% and keep that dose for 3-5 days, repeat. If you make a drop and get some symptoms, they should go away soon. If they don't, stay on that level until you even out some, then drop again. When you get down to a tiny amount and feel ready, that's when you quit.

If you can't or don't want to taper, look into people's methods for quitting opiates and the helper drugs they use, and other things like saunas, exercise, etc.. For PAWS, some have had success with DXM. I think I'm going to try low level doses of that, doses that won't produce any kind of trip and see how they affect the PAWS. Your depression/anxiety/insomnia after the initial withdrawal is PAWS.

Andy, none of us 3 here can do PMs yet as we are all still under 50 posts. Maybe we can have a good discussion here and fix that. I hope you guys log in and check a lot. I'd love to help you both and will appreciate your support in return.

Peace,
pnm
 

Beat It

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
87
Thanks guys, I'm new to the site and wasn't sure if I would get much of a response. I was worried a lot people were going to respond, "oh it's just Kratom withdrawal." I don't think people take Kratom addiction very seriously. I'm glad to hear someone with the same testimony! This forum is awesome! Everyone I talk to in real life hasn't even heard of the drug.

Well I've actually successfully been off of Kratom for 10 days now, but I was consuming about a half pound every 10-14 days. For me, tapering didn't work because I didn't have that kind of self restraint. I just felt like taking my beating all at once but it has been a long painful ride. The physical symptoms lasted 5 days but then the depression/anxiety started to kick in. Those have yet to subside. I also lost my job 4 days into withdrawal. Didn't help!

At this point I'm having a difficult time with depression/anxiety, sleeping and eating a healthy three meals a day. I was 167 before with very little body fat and I'm almost down to 150 now. I'm also in a mental fog all of the time and I'm too stressed to function. I guess I'm looking for ways to get back to normal now. I'm taking a lot of ambien and I'm concerned that might be messing with my recovery. Plus, I don't want to trade a kratom addiction of an ambien addiction, the stuff is bad I hear.
 

Beat It

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
87
I would suggest tapering down slowly instead of just stopping cold turkey i think that was my big mistake last time i just didnt expect the horrid mental agonizing depression and panic i was getting,

That's what I'm saying! I could deal with the physical part way better than the secondary mental part. At this point I just don't want to get back on it!... Way too damn expensive.
 

podsnomo

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
389
Location
mostly here
Damn, well if you can't taper, do all the other things that help your brain readjust. Basically, your brain stopped making it's own morphine to some extent. So, do things that make it squirt out some endorphin, which is short for endogenous morphine. I can send you a link if you haven't read about these things.

Masturbate, often, or have sex if you have SO. Exercise, lightly, twice daily or so. Eat healthy food. Keep going. Do stuff. Plan and execute. It is expensive to taper, so if you find you just can't cope, invest in just enough to taper. But, be glad it's not a hardcore H habit you're coming off of. I'm guessing (and hoping) you're nowhere near curled up in the fetal position in the bathroom puking and shitting on yourself. So, not sure it makes you feel better, but it could be worse, and is a good caution not to take your affinity for opiate-like stuff to the next level.

FWIW, I took 120mg of DXM this morning and though I felt pretty odd, I didn't have nearly as much anxiety and the chills totally went away. I've felt better all day. 120mg is basically 4 times the recommended dose, which seems like a lot, but it's nowhere near the 300-500 needed for a trip, or the 700+ some robo trippers report using. I may use this dose, or maybe a bit less each morning for a few days and then taper that down. It seems to be easing the transition. Be careful though, if you decide to take more than the recommended dose, the first time you do it make sure you've got nothing to do for the rest of the day. It affects everyone differently.

Are you using loperamide and other helpers like aleve, etc.? Also, melatonin and valerian for sleep if you get the insomnia. Let me know if I can help. Definitely advise you cut down on the ambien and supplement it with valerian and melatonin. The sleep will come back, eventually. But you don't want to get in trouble with the ambien. Way worse news than quitting a kratom addiction. Taper the ambien, add the valerian, and just force yourself to eat during the day. Proteins, veggies and fruit, the fresher the better. Stay away from red meat as it has a hormone that increases inflammation, and you need that like you need another hole in your arse.

Peace and love,
pnm
 

Beat It

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
87
Thanks for the informative post pod. Today is first day since I stopped that I've actually felt better. (day 15) I'm on my last script of ambien for a long time and I only have 8 left so I'm gonna lower my doses to half a night until my script is out. Gonna be hard though since its been the only thing I've been able to use to help me get to sleep. Loperamide has been a lifesaver and has really made my recovery thus far work. I think getting a good run in and eating some fresh food really helped me feel better today. Without being judged, does anyone know how long until I can take a dose of Kratom again without feeling withdrawals from using? In the future, I want to be able to take a dose on the weekends to relax but I don't want to precipitate another withdrawal.
 

podsnomo

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
389
Location
mostly here
Good question beatit. If you are sure you can keep it to just the weekends, then you have more control than I. I tried that many times. Never worked for me, and I'd caution against it.

As far as how long you should wait, I'd suggest 30 days of feeling good without it. I'd also urge you to leave open the option of not going back to it just for the weekends, that is, not going back at all. IME, you can do this without causing serious withdrawals, though you'll get some minor ones. Worse, IMO, is that you'll reignite your cravings every time. Right now, I hazard to guess, that your desire to use on the weekends in the future is because of your obsession to feel that good feeling again. Totally normal. And I'd be the last one to judge you for it. But if you try to just use on the weekends you will, likely, torture yourself during the week with the psychological cravings. Stronger men than I have succumbed to these and gone back to their old habits, and usually worse upon the return to the habit.

Kudos on the good run and eating better. I'm so out of shape, and a cig smoker, so 40-60 pushups over the course of an afternoon is all I can do, but it's better than nothing.

IF you go back to using once on a weekend here and there, be very careful. You get that Kratom in your hands, you take a dose, you feel good, then it wears off...again, and you think "ah what the hell, 2 doses is no biggie, then no more till next weekend". Then, some withdrawals, probably minor, and they remind of the worse ones you just went through. The panic of doing that again, and you just want to stave it off for now. "OK, just dose now and feel OK now, then worry about later later." Then, poof. The habit's back.

That's what I've done anyway. And I know of tons of guys who have done the same. Wouldn't you like to live a nice happy life and be pleased by the things that please normal, sober people? I would, and that's where I'm trying to get to. Once we've had a habit though, we have some feel-shitty to go through to pay for all the feel-good we had. I'm trying to spread out the feel shitty. I got off of pods, from what I've read that's a lot tougher than Kratom. But now I'm tapering Kratom, so I know that ain't no easy road either.

You might be able to handle the weekend only thing, I don't know you at all. But I know addicts, and IF you are one...well you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber. If you wanna try it, I wish you the best. For now, just take it as it comes, day at a time, and see if you can do 30 days without. You might be feeling so good then you won't want to chance going back to your habit, and you can spend that cash on something more lasting than a buzz. Do what you will. My main advice is be kind to yourself, and leave that option open of not going back to using ever. You may find it to be better.

Love and peace,
pods-no-more
 

Beat It

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
87
Yeah I hear what your saying. After going through the last (correction) 13 days as of today, I don't ever want to get physically addicted to anything. For my experience, it took 12 days for all of the physical w/d symptoms to stop and the severe depression/anxiety to lift. Although, at this point, there are still some lingering symptoms like depression/anxiety and frustration, these symptoms have become much more manageable in the last couple of days! While I know that there are going to be/ already been others who's experiences with withdrawals were much worse than mine (no I never shat on myself in the fetal position), mine was bad enough that I never want to go through that again!

However, at the same time, I don't want to demonize Kratom use and forget about all of the good qualities it has. It was my fault that I started abusing the drug and using it everyday all day thinking that the positive effects would last forever. I also don't want to forget the reason i started using it in the first place, to quit drinking. I had a very bad reputation with my drinking habits and rightfully so. I used to drink all the time, black out every time, break stuff and mess friendships up. I never want to go back to that. So, I hope that after I have enough sober time under my belt, I will be able to use Kratom recreationally and responsibly.

Pods-no-more, you've got a great head on you shoulders. Maybe you've been through sometime like this before? I'm gonna take your advise on waiting for 30 days and keeping the option in my mind of not ever using it again. The one thing I've never really tried since I started using drugs to be happy is getting sober and staying sober long enough to really feel better. I think I'm gonna head in that direction and see where it takes me. Maybe someday I can forget about using...hmm
 

herbavore

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
14,953
Location
in a dream
Hey, all! just a welcome to all three of you and also kudos for your mutual support--that's what we are all here for. Using this thread to discuss what you are doing and helping each other is great--no need to PM unless you have something more private. (P.S. This thread is highly useful for the post count ;))
 

podsnomo

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
389
Location
mostly here
Thanks for the compliment beatit. And I am both glad for you and proud of you for considering that option of staying clean. For me, I wish I had done that a loooooong time ago, but now I'm fighting what I'm fighting, and I'm making progress still!

And yessiree, I've been through lots like that before, and maybe worse. I'm not saying it was harder for me...it's hard for everybody, and you're no exception. It just may be that I've done the tough road a few more times, and I'm looking to never look at that road again.

So, if you said it before about using kratom for quitting drinking, I missed it. I started using pods regularly when I quit drinking... And pods aren't too much different in this department. That is, the department of needing/wanting something to get a buzz from. It was for me like, OK, now I'm "sober". I don't get drunk all the time, but I take these pods, and they make me feel better, the way kratom does, and SO, it's like still having something you can use to alter you mood to get it where you want is nice.

It was like a safety blanket for me. I was sober from alcohol, and much healthier as all could see, and I could attend an AA meeting with a mild pod buzz or a kratom buzz and no one was the wiser. So, then me thinks me is invincible and in no danger. Until the day(s) I begin to realize that my problem is getting worse, just like my drinking did.

Addictions seem to have some basic patterns in my mind. 1. Drug/alcohol/whatever makes you feel great! 2. You keep doing it. 3. It's starts to not work as well as it did in the beginning. 4. You use more. 5. You keep using more and add something else to help it make you feel better. 6. Things start shitting on you. 7. You want a way out, but it's scary, so a total release of any mind-mood altering drugs seems unfathomable. 8. You make great strides to quit the main evil, but keep or add a lesser evil. 9. The lesser evil makes you feel great. 10. see #1 and repeat.

It's a sure trap. And for those of us addiction-prone, it gets us often. If you can go back to using Kratom on the weekends for a good buzz, and that's all you want, why not go to working out, or skydiving, or something low key that is fun. You could have all that fun without putting yourself at serious risk for getting back into habit(s).''
Plus, the money you used to spend to get your kratom on, could be spent for these things, And DUDE, if you ever go skydiving, ...major cred among your peeps. Balls of steel he has, they'll say. I went.

You say you never really tried being happy sober. Me either, for a rRrREEEALlly long time. It can happen though, and it's SUCH a much better happy than the sporadic happy of being buzzed and then not being buzzed but wanting to be. Try it. You have worth, value, and a life to live. Oh yeah, and if no one has told you that they love you today, well, I do.

Aaaaaaaaand don't knock AA until you try it. A 12 step program seems extreme, like it's only for the people having seizures in the gutter before the liquor store opens. But it's not. The people there are amazing. From pot heads to hard core freebasers, an addict is an addict. If you have trouble staying clean, these people know the solution and live it. It's not for everybody, just for people who can't stay sober but want to, and in following a simple program, they do.

All my heart to your pain,
and all my hope to your recovery,
PNM
 
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kickingkratom

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
3
Hi guys,

I've been addicted to kratom for 4 months. Compared to some other stories I read, of people who were addicted for several years of daily use, even extracts, mine seems so trivial. But I know I am addicted, and the withdrawal (PAWS I think) has been quite hard for me. I'm currently nearing the end of my taper plan. For 4 months I was using 10-20g of bali powder a day, then I cut that down to like 6g, and started tapering down and now I'm at 3g/day. Tomorrow I'm planning on knocking it down again to 2.25g. The depression and anxiety have been the hardest part for me. And beatit, props on going cold turkey. I tried that once and was overcome with really bad depression and hopelessness, so I know what you've been feeling. Tapering has helped reduce the intensity by a lot, but it's still very frustrating and I believe taking a while longer. I just want to be back to normal. I am grateful though that I realized I had a problem before I continued to take kratom, because I know it would only make withdrawing that much worse, and I don't think anyone can take kratom for the rest of their life.

Reading about other people going through kratom withdrawal has helped me a lot. I'll be checking back here probably daily for the next couple of weeks. I too think that not many people take kratom withdrawal seriously, and I wouldn't know how bad other drug withdrawals could be (I'm sure they can be magnitudes worse) but this is the first time I've ever been addicted to something and I really have no one else to talk about this with.
 

slayerhatesusall

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
52
Location
The Goldheart Mountaintop Queen Directory
Good question beatit. If you are sure you can keep it to just the weekends, then you have more control than I. I tried that many times. Never worked for me, and I'd caution against it.

As far as how long you should wait, I'd suggest 30 days of feeling good without it. I'd also urge you to leave open the option of not going back to it just for the weekends, that is, not going back at all. IME, you can do this without causing serious withdrawals, though you'll get some minor ones. Worse, IMO, is that you'll reignite your cravings every time. Right now, I hazard to guess, that your desire to use on the weekends in the future is because of your obsession to feel that good feeling again. Totally normal. And I'd be the last one to judge you for it. But if you try to just use on the weekends you will, likely, torture yourself during the week with the psychological cravings. Stronger men than I have succumbed to these and gone back to their old habits, and usually worse upon the return to the habit.

Kudos on the good run and eating better. I'm so out of shape, and a cig smoker, so 40-60 pushups over the course of an afternoon is all I can do, but it's better than nothing.

IF you go back to using once on a weekend here and there, be very careful. You get that Kratom in your hands, you take a dose, you feel good, then it wears off...again, and you think "ah what the hell, 2 doses is no biggie, then no more till next weekend". Then, some withdrawals, probably minor, and they remind of the worse ones you just went through. The panic of doing that again, and you just want to stave it off for now. "OK, just dose now and feel OK now, then worry about later later." Then, poof. The habit's back.

That's what I've done anyway. And I know of tons of guys who have done the same. Wouldn't you like to live a nice happy life and be pleased by the things that please normal, sober people? I would, and that's where I'm trying to get to. Once we've had a habit though, we have some feel-shitty to go through to pay for all the feel-good we had. I'm trying to spread out the feel shitty. I got off of pods, from what I've read that's a lot tougher than Kratom. But now I'm tapering Kratom, so I know that ain't no easy road either.

You might be able to handle the weekend only thing, I don't know you at all. But I know addicts, and IF you are one...well you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber. If you wanna try it, I wish you the best. For now, just take it as it comes, day at a time, and see if you can do 30 days without. You might be feeling so good then you won't want to chance going back to your habit, and you can spend that cash on something more lasting than a buzz. Do what you will. My main advice is be kind to yourself, and leave that option open of not going back to using ever. You may find it to be better.

Love and peace,
pods-no-more

I've been taking kratom every 3 days for the past 6 months with the occasional week break and haven't got addicted to it again surprisingly, although I probably will eventually due to the annoying slight day after withdrawals and the fact that I only really get stuff done while on it, the other 2 days I'm bored and don't really do anything and only really enjoy anything while on it. Tried working out and it helps a bit but not enough. I would be surprised if I was able to not get addicted to it in the next month or so, and I don't really see why not, its really cheap and I'm not exactly strapped for cash, and it makes me feel good enough so I can actually get stuff done and isn't dangerous.
Maybe thats just the kratom talking for me since I took it yesterday, I don't even know anymore or care.
 

podsnomo

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
389
Location
mostly here
Hi guys,

I've been addicted to kratom for 4 months. Compared to some other stories I read, of people who were addicted for several years of daily use, even extracts, mine seems so trivial. But I know I am addicted, and the withdrawal (PAWS I think) has been quite hard for me. I'm currently nearing the end of my taper plan. For 4 months I was using 10-20g of bali powder a day, then I cut that down to like 6g, and started tapering down and now I'm at 3g/day. Tomorrow I'm planning on knocking it down again to 2.25g. The depression and anxiety have been the hardest part for me. And beatit, props on going cold turkey. I tried that once and was overcome with really bad depression and hopelessness, so I know what you've been feeling. Tapering has helped reduce the intensity by a lot, but it's still very frustrating and I believe taking a while longer. I just want to be back to normal. I am grateful though that I realized I had a problem before I continued to take kratom, because I know it would only make withdrawing that much worse, and I don't think anyone can take kratom for the rest of their life.

Reading about other people going through kratom withdrawal has helped me a lot. I'll be checking back here probably daily for the next couple of weeks. I too think that not many people take kratom withdrawal seriously, and I wouldn't know how bad other drug withdrawals could be (I'm sure they can be magnitudes worse) but this is the first time I've ever been addicted to something and I really have no one else to talk about this with.


Hiya kratom kicker! No addiction is trivial and no person is trivial. You mention PAWS, and this acronym gets tossed around a lot. It stands, of course, for Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. But without an acute (CT) withdrawal, where does this syndrome come from? Answer, INMHO, our minds. Once we have a name for something we like to call it that, and if we're going through something we want to find out what it is, just knowing it has a name makes a person feel better, 'cause then you have a named entity with which to contend.

Here's the rub though, what your dealing with probably isn't PAWS, and anyway, no two people experience this so called PAWS the same way.

Truth is: when you stop using a feel-good after using it for a long time, you go through some feel-shitty. Luckily the feel-shitty is shorter than the habit. But whatever we call it: PAWS, WDs, etc., .... it all comes down to adjusting to life without this expensive crap that keeps getting us further down that shit hill on which the opiate train runs to nowhere good.

KickingKratom, don't worry if your taper is taking longer than you like. Do the taper you can do. Drop when you can, monitor yourself, and adjust your taper. For example, say you take a modest .25 gram drop, and it's kind of shitty, not dreadful, just not good, but you can still function. Good! Keep that dose until it gets better, and it will in a day or two. Then wait another day or two for the next drop. Point is, be kind to yourself, and don't expect miracles. Just go day by day, and do the best you can each day to get closer to your goal. Progress is all that is truly important. Schedules...fuck 'em. Focus on your progression.

I know you want to be back to normal, so do I. Whatever normal is, if you get there first, tell me about it. Just know that it will take some time. Everyone talks so depressedly about going through it, but what if we tried to think of it as labor pains in a days, weeks, or months long birth. Fuck the pain, right? I'm gonna get a NEW me outta this. I know the flipside of that too though, being in that place where you're so panicky, scared, depressed, and feeling like shit that that nice big green mound of kratom, or any other DOC, sounds like heaven. Coping skills are what we need for this part, coupled with the belief that we are good people trying to something extraordinary. Seriously, kicking an addiction out of self will is extraordinary. It's also kind of a paradox, because self will got us all into this mess.

And to your point about taking kratom for life. You're right, it's not suited for that, unless you want to be eating buckets of it for breakfast lunch and dinner everyday, which, if done, could lead to the first ever kratom death. Kratom is a tricky animal. It's been used well by those tapering off of serious opiate habits, but it's also been the thing that, once it begins to require huge doses, leads people to heavier shit like oxy/roxy/h/pods and so on.

Last thing here. you seem to worry about the fact that kicking hardcore habits is much more involved, gross painful and so on. Just because you're not going through hardcore H withdrawal doesn't mean your addiction is trivial. And for damn sure, YOU are not trivial. You're here aren't you? Trying to figure out what to do.

It's the psychological part that is the worst once the physical symptoms begin to clear. ANd whether it's some who shit themselves for days or someone in a tornado mentally over trying to kick kratom, it's impossible to compare the psychological symptoms of WD. It's also pointless to compare them, except just to share experiences and try to learn from others and help others. KickingK, you're going through TOUGH shit. I feel you my friend. Don't think that just because you haven't lost your hous and your family and years to prison time and been to hospital-detox 8 times that your plight is unimportant. On the CONTRARY.

Not only are you just as important, and not only are your feelings and pain just as legitimate as any other addict of whatever severity, but the goals we addicts have are the same. Sobriety, one. Then, eventually, happiness in sobriety, and then helping others who have fucked themselves the way we have.

2.25 g/day is pretty low (not extract right?). Either way, just keep moving toward where you want to be.

I'm currently at 3-4 grams 2-3 time a day. This is the taper of a taper, down from buckets of poppy pod grounds multiple times daily. I haven't set my taper plan for the kratom yet, but tomorrow, I will take less than today, and see if that's ok. If it is, then I'll take a little less the next day. When I start to get problems I'll stay on the problem dose until it becomes a manageable dose (3-5) days. Then drop, adjust, drop adjuct, until ZERO.

And while doing this I am going to phase in a workout schedule as my kratom use phases out. That, and I'm going to eat better, and be nicer, and just keep that idea in my mind of freedom, of waking up every day feeling good or at least not-shitty, of not obsessing over using, of not craving, of just living, because then I can truly do whatever I want, and I won't be wanting drugs or drink then.

All my best to you,
pods no more
 

podsnomo

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
389
Location
mostly here
Slayer, your tone worries me, and I don't mean it derogatory. It's just... You're here checking out these threads but seem to be tempted to say "Well fuck it,". You seem resigned to be heading down the road to solidifying your addiction to Kratom. You say you don't even know o care anymore.

I can identify with those feelings. I had them EVERY day when I was hard core drinking and taking poppy pods daily.

I can't say anything that will *poof* make things better.

All I can say is that there are solutions and you don't have to live like that.

You'd be surprised how many people are in our kinds of shoes and never talk to each other,
which is mainly why I attend AA. The content and literature is good, yeah,
but getting to meet and talk with people who are or were as fucked up as me or worse,
that's fuckin' gravy.
It's like all these people who would prolly never talk to one another, and we have this common bond,
because as soon as I meet a knew person, we already have a major fucking demon in common.
It makes unexpected friendships quite surprising.

I'm rambling. I hope you get through the darkness of post use.
It goes away.
Whatever happens, we don't want that to happen today.

If no one has told you they love you today,
well,
I DO.

Peace,
pnm
 

Eyes On the Roll

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
693
Location
Heaven
Really?? Kratom withdrawals?? I used to take 300mg a day of oxycodone, and I quit cold turkey. Sure, the withdrawals sucked, but I stuck it out and got through it by myself. Are kratom withdrawals really this bad? Compared with real opiates. Oxycodone withdrawals are bad, but I got through them nonetheless. Even though it was a real opiate the process of quitting wasn't as dramatic as you guys are making kratom withdrawals sound. Never knew kratom had real withdrawals.
 

podsnomo

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
389
Location
mostly here
EyesOTR, Yes and no. There are probably tons of people out there who quit kratom no problem, but everyone is different. For the majority of people it might be easy to quit, but for some of us it obviously is not. Your post borders on condescending and derogatory. It borders on calling these guys wimps, on making their plights seem trivial. And it more than borders on pissing me off a bit.

I'm glad you got through that WD process from that serious habit. Hats off to you for that, but you must surely know that people with a fifth or less of your intake have had far worse troubles in WD, PAWS and staying clean. There are way too many variables at play to say that your process of quitting wasn't as dramatic as my friends' habits here. Everyone is at different places in their lives, have varying degrees of psychological problems, health issues, life circumstances, body chemistry, and on and on.

So, here's your lesson for the day: YES, for some people, kratom has real and serious WDs. It seems they may be more psychological than regular opiates, but that doesn't matter. These guys, and me too, are suffering and trying to beat addictions. So please, don't come into this thread and SEEM to act like your harder or stronger because you kicked a massive oxy habit. I'm really glad you did, and I hope that that part of it can be of some inspiration to my guys here. But ANYbody coming in here and even hinting at downplaying the troubles of these guys will get a rebuke from me. Kindness and support is all that should be in this thread as we support each other in achieving our goals.

Kindly, EOTR, please be kind to these guys or just don't say anything.

To Slaying, Kicking, Herbavore, Beatit, and Andy and anyone else reading this, I've got your back.

I hope I wasn't too harsh on you EOTR, you really do have something to be proud of kicking that habit. Please understand that anything that might dampen these guys spirits and jeopardize their success I will roundly and soundly refute, rebuke, and ask kindly for more empathy and kindness.

I love you all, you too EOTR,
podsnomo
 

Eyes On the Roll

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
693
Location
Heaven
The reason why I ask is because I'm on probation now, and I'm a poly substance abuser. I started drinking, and that's about all I can do, and drinking isn't too good for you. I was thinking about buying kratom online, and only because I thought it was non physically addicting. I don't want to get hooked on something again, but I figured if I could substitute drinking with kratom.. well you know.
 

kickingkratom

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
3
pnm,

I really, really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my, and everyone else's comments. It has helped me a lot, and I'm glad to know I have your support and also that you're going through something very similar to me.

With that being said, I unfortunately also have to say that today has probably been the worst day so far. Again, it's the depression and anxiety that have been unbearable. I also just realized that it is only the 6th day since I have significantly reduced my daily doses (probably by too much). This is both comforting and worrying for me. It worries me because, well fuck, it’s only day 6. It feels like it has been forever, and I was hoping that the symptoms would be lessening. On the other hand, the majority of kratom withdrawal stories I’ve read have said that days 7-14 can actually be the worst. This makes sense to me because it's been almost a week since I dropped from using 10-20g (of powder) a day down to 4g, and am now at 3g. I think I might hover around this level for a while because I think I have a few days of shit coming up. Hopefully by mid-end of this week I'll be feeling okay again and ready to decrease my dosage.

Good luck pnm, slayer, beatit and andy with your tapering/kicking (and anyone else too) and I'll be checking back here frequently! By the way, if anyone has found out some strategies for dealing with the withdrawal please share. I've found valerian root and camomile help for sleeping, and exercise (lifting weights for me) makes me feel better for a few hours afterwards.
 

podsnomo

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
389
Location
mostly here
The reason why I ask is because I'm on probation now, and I'm a poly substance abuser. I started drinking, and that's about all I can do, and drinking isn't too good for you. I was thinking about buying kratom online, and only because I thought it was non physically addicting. I don't want to get hooked on something again, but I figured if I could substitute drinking with kratom.. well you know.

I see. Sorry again if I was harsh. I'm kinda protective of these guys. It's hard to say man. Kratom is certainly better for you than drinking, but it can become addictive and/or habit forming. The withdrawals from k are usually described as far less severe than from opiates, but I think it's more that they are just different. For me, and I think for a couple of the others here, if you use it to combat depression and you start on it in a sort of vulnerable, tough spot in your life, then coming off it is awful because the psychological WDs can be maddening. Also, when I ran out of pods once, I was trying to take enough of the stuff to stay feeling good or OK for the whole day, since I was working long days. Problem is, once you take so much in a day, and if you build a tolerance, it quits working and seriously fucks up your stomach. It's a weird animal, I think partially because it's a plant, with lots of complex stuff, and not a nice refined pharm. It doesn't show up in UAs and is legal, so if you think it could help you quit drinking, maybe you should try it.

My caution would be to prepare yourself to be moderate with it. If you can, use it only once or twice a week. It's not some awesome rush like pharms or H or anything, but it does have a nice mood lift and some hydro-ish feeling to it. And IMO it's far less bad for you than drinking. I should know, I'm an alcoholic, and in my worst days before I quit drinking I was at about 20+ drinks a day, all in the afternoon/evening/night. Let us know if you have more questions about kratom.

Peace,
pnm
 
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