thesixgorillion
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2018
- Messages
- 1
(If you don't want to read the back-story and cut to the crux, jump to the bolded CRUX portion below).
I've been on and off opioids for years, starting with oxycodone back in those halcyon days of the 80mg "green monster" original OCs (not the OP non-sense), later moved to heroin and then on to fentanyl as it is so prevalent and, in many cases, easier and more consistent to get.
While my first experience with fentanyl involved those gel patches whereby they could be sliced open and smoked or transbuccal'd, I later moved on to this snortable fentanyl powder or what many just call "fenny" / "fendi" here. Whether or not it is real fentanyl, an analog of it, or what is unknown; it is a white powder and has come and gone in a variety of shades of white, from rock to flake to fluffy snow, from weak to extremely strong. Certainly it is extremely adulterated as true lab-grade fentanyl would kill even the most opioid-tolerant amongst us with a few pebbles worth. Some of what I've found over the past year would have me nodding out standing up by snorting less than a tenth of a gram; others I could snort a gram in 4 hours and barely feel it. Needless to say the quality, quantity and source of it all is unknown truly. So who knows what else is mixed in this, or how much actual fentanyl? When compared to known quantities such as patches, lollipops, etc. there is no way to know. I do not have a laboratory that can test for these things (unless someone can suggest one I can send to, anonymously, and get the results anonymously).
A friend of mine whom was plugging fentanyl - although, he was also doing heroin at times, and got his fentanyl from a variety of sources - recently went to a detox clinic. They told him that Subutex (buprenorphrine) could not be administered for several days as fentanyl stays in the body for a decent period of time. I find this odd as this stuff seems to metabolize right through me (although I do generally enter w/d quickly from any opioid) within hours let alone a few days. He said he entered precipitated withdrawal after being administered suboxone. When I asked about a tox screen he said they found only fentanyl, cocaine (crack user) and xanax / other benzos.
THE CRUX (Skip here for the skinny)
In short I have become confused and unsure on how to get off of fentanyl and back onto Subutex (buprenorphrine, no nalaxone) for the following reasons. I have read or heard the following conflicting information:
1) Fentanyl is short-acting, and thus shouldn't take too long before buprenorphrine could be administered;
2) Fentanyl is absorbed into the fat for chronic/longer term use (I have been using snortable for a year), and must wait several days before administering;
3) Clinics found that patients taking Suboxone/Subutex at times were also taking fentanyl in order to get high while on the buprenorphrine maintenance doses, as fentanyl is not blocked by Suboxone; if this is the case, how can Suboxone put you into precipitated withdrawal if it isn't going to bind the same way and thus "kick out" the other opioid, causing the precipitated withdrawals?
4) When "fentanyl" and "buprenorphrine" are searched together on a search engine, you end up with many articles regarding co-administration of the drug or alternating between the two for pain management purposes. Both would be confusing - one, the mix of them, similar to the point #3 made above and, two, if alternating there would be no "detox" time between the fentanyl to the bupe. So thus again, back at the precip. w/d's mentioned in #2;
5) Some sources saying one should switch to a different drug for tapering purposes, such as morphine (or dare I say heroin, or oxycodone, or vicodin, anything else) - the only thing it was contra-indicated for was people with opioid abuse problems, naturally, but they advised that for people on fentanyl patches (yes, your doctor saying 'hey here's some morphine to help you get off the fentanyl, then we go from there').
6) Other sources saying that going from fentanyl to methadone should be done, again with very little consideration for detox time between fentanyl and methadone.
With all of this contradictory information I am left very confused. I am going to make a plan to taper down the fentanyl to several smaller doses a day and then increase the time between those doses longer and longer, with the doses coming down with each increase in duration of time of frequency. For instance I was thinking, if a baseline is (my typical day):
0.08mg in the morning upon waking, mixed w/ Dormin (diphenhydramine);
0.10mg multiple times throughout the day; probably totalling 0.50mg (1/2 g) a day or more, depending on how potent the particular "fenny" I have this given day is. However if I don't get a dose after, say, 8+ hours I begin sweating very badly. It hits FAST.
So my naive plan might be for tapering:
0.04mg in the morning;
0.08mg after 2 hours, 0.08mg 4 hours after that, 0.05mg 4 hours after that, 0.03mg later at night to go to bed mixed with some clonidine or klonopin;
TOTAL: 0.28mg/day for week 1
Then, decrease to 0.03mg in AM, 0.06mg after 2 hours, 0.06mg in place of the 0.08s, and 0.03mg again at night for a week; week 2
Then, 0.02mg in AM, 0.04mg replacing 0.06s, none at night (take extra klonopin + gabapentin etc); week 3
Then, 0.02mg in AM, 0.06mg ONCE during the day, 0.02mg a few hours before bed (for mental purpose); week 4
Then, none taken in AM (kratom, klnopin, workout, sex, caffeine, whatever); 2x 0.05mg throughout the day, that's it; week 5
Then, 0.03mg 2x a day, that's it; week 6
Then off, going to subutex. (But what about precipitated withdrawals!? Thus the conflicting info mentioned above! argh! Need real info!)
For chemical support from the mental and physical affects, I have access to:
Hundreds of Subutex 8MG (buprenorphine w/o the naloxone); hundreds of clonidine 1mg, 2mg, etc; hundreds of gabapentin 800mg; plenty of klonopin; plenty of red-vein kratom; various other sleepy pills (Trazodone, etc) to knock self out; CBD oil; whatever.
What do you guys think about that taper plan? And, most pressingly - can I avoid say half the taper by doing a more aggressive taper and then switching to Subutex? Is this precip'd withdrawls thing for real on there? If so why am I reading that they can co-administer fentanyl and subutex? I am very, very confused. Should I switch to something else first, like heroin or oxycodone? Oxies are mad expensive right now but they're available, in limited quantity. Swallowing them should provide me with good several hour spacers before needing to re-dose.
So I am asking everyone for your experiences, for your first-hand tales (or direct tales from a trusted friend), from what your doctors have told you, from what trusted people here have said. This is a very big mystery it seems and no two sites will tell you the same damn thing about fentanyl and suboxone/methadone.
Thank you!
NOTE: Sad to see bluelight ru had gone. I hadn't visited for some time but I typed that URL in my browser, it was gone. Glad to see you're all still around. I lurked a lot in the past there but the site helped me a lot throughout the years.
I've been on and off opioids for years, starting with oxycodone back in those halcyon days of the 80mg "green monster" original OCs (not the OP non-sense), later moved to heroin and then on to fentanyl as it is so prevalent and, in many cases, easier and more consistent to get.
While my first experience with fentanyl involved those gel patches whereby they could be sliced open and smoked or transbuccal'd, I later moved on to this snortable fentanyl powder or what many just call "fenny" / "fendi" here. Whether or not it is real fentanyl, an analog of it, or what is unknown; it is a white powder and has come and gone in a variety of shades of white, from rock to flake to fluffy snow, from weak to extremely strong. Certainly it is extremely adulterated as true lab-grade fentanyl would kill even the most opioid-tolerant amongst us with a few pebbles worth. Some of what I've found over the past year would have me nodding out standing up by snorting less than a tenth of a gram; others I could snort a gram in 4 hours and barely feel it. Needless to say the quality, quantity and source of it all is unknown truly. So who knows what else is mixed in this, or how much actual fentanyl? When compared to known quantities such as patches, lollipops, etc. there is no way to know. I do not have a laboratory that can test for these things (unless someone can suggest one I can send to, anonymously, and get the results anonymously).
A friend of mine whom was plugging fentanyl - although, he was also doing heroin at times, and got his fentanyl from a variety of sources - recently went to a detox clinic. They told him that Subutex (buprenorphrine) could not be administered for several days as fentanyl stays in the body for a decent period of time. I find this odd as this stuff seems to metabolize right through me (although I do generally enter w/d quickly from any opioid) within hours let alone a few days. He said he entered precipitated withdrawal after being administered suboxone. When I asked about a tox screen he said they found only fentanyl, cocaine (crack user) and xanax / other benzos.
THE CRUX (Skip here for the skinny)
In short I have become confused and unsure on how to get off of fentanyl and back onto Subutex (buprenorphrine, no nalaxone) for the following reasons. I have read or heard the following conflicting information:
1) Fentanyl is short-acting, and thus shouldn't take too long before buprenorphrine could be administered;
2) Fentanyl is absorbed into the fat for chronic/longer term use (I have been using snortable for a year), and must wait several days before administering;
3) Clinics found that patients taking Suboxone/Subutex at times were also taking fentanyl in order to get high while on the buprenorphrine maintenance doses, as fentanyl is not blocked by Suboxone; if this is the case, how can Suboxone put you into precipitated withdrawal if it isn't going to bind the same way and thus "kick out" the other opioid, causing the precipitated withdrawals?
4) When "fentanyl" and "buprenorphrine" are searched together on a search engine, you end up with many articles regarding co-administration of the drug or alternating between the two for pain management purposes. Both would be confusing - one, the mix of them, similar to the point #3 made above and, two, if alternating there would be no "detox" time between the fentanyl to the bupe. So thus again, back at the precip. w/d's mentioned in #2;
5) Some sources saying one should switch to a different drug for tapering purposes, such as morphine (or dare I say heroin, or oxycodone, or vicodin, anything else) - the only thing it was contra-indicated for was people with opioid abuse problems, naturally, but they advised that for people on fentanyl patches (yes, your doctor saying 'hey here's some morphine to help you get off the fentanyl, then we go from there').
6) Other sources saying that going from fentanyl to methadone should be done, again with very little consideration for detox time between fentanyl and methadone.
With all of this contradictory information I am left very confused. I am going to make a plan to taper down the fentanyl to several smaller doses a day and then increase the time between those doses longer and longer, with the doses coming down with each increase in duration of time of frequency. For instance I was thinking, if a baseline is (my typical day):
0.08mg in the morning upon waking, mixed w/ Dormin (diphenhydramine);
0.10mg multiple times throughout the day; probably totalling 0.50mg (1/2 g) a day or more, depending on how potent the particular "fenny" I have this given day is. However if I don't get a dose after, say, 8+ hours I begin sweating very badly. It hits FAST.
So my naive plan might be for tapering:
0.04mg in the morning;
0.08mg after 2 hours, 0.08mg 4 hours after that, 0.05mg 4 hours after that, 0.03mg later at night to go to bed mixed with some clonidine or klonopin;
TOTAL: 0.28mg/day for week 1
Then, decrease to 0.03mg in AM, 0.06mg after 2 hours, 0.06mg in place of the 0.08s, and 0.03mg again at night for a week; week 2
Then, 0.02mg in AM, 0.04mg replacing 0.06s, none at night (take extra klonopin + gabapentin etc); week 3
Then, 0.02mg in AM, 0.06mg ONCE during the day, 0.02mg a few hours before bed (for mental purpose); week 4
Then, none taken in AM (kratom, klnopin, workout, sex, caffeine, whatever); 2x 0.05mg throughout the day, that's it; week 5
Then, 0.03mg 2x a day, that's it; week 6
Then off, going to subutex. (But what about precipitated withdrawals!? Thus the conflicting info mentioned above! argh! Need real info!)
For chemical support from the mental and physical affects, I have access to:
Hundreds of Subutex 8MG (buprenorphine w/o the naloxone); hundreds of clonidine 1mg, 2mg, etc; hundreds of gabapentin 800mg; plenty of klonopin; plenty of red-vein kratom; various other sleepy pills (Trazodone, etc) to knock self out; CBD oil; whatever.
What do you guys think about that taper plan? And, most pressingly - can I avoid say half the taper by doing a more aggressive taper and then switching to Subutex? Is this precip'd withdrawls thing for real on there? If so why am I reading that they can co-administer fentanyl and subutex? I am very, very confused. Should I switch to something else first, like heroin or oxycodone? Oxies are mad expensive right now but they're available, in limited quantity. Swallowing them should provide me with good several hour spacers before needing to re-dose.
So I am asking everyone for your experiences, for your first-hand tales (or direct tales from a trusted friend), from what your doctors have told you, from what trusted people here have said. This is a very big mystery it seems and no two sites will tell you the same damn thing about fentanyl and suboxone/methadone.
Thank you!
NOTE: Sad to see bluelight ru had gone. I hadn't visited for some time but I typed that URL in my browser, it was gone. Glad to see you're all still around. I lurked a lot in the past there but the site helped me a lot throughout the years.
). Hahahaha