K

[Random_1]

I love my special k but most of my pals think im some sort of scum bag because i take it. Ive tried to explain to them its not that bad, but they dont listen.
does k mess u up more then pills? Is k worse then pills? anybody got any facts.
thank you

 

[greenhaze]

That sounds like a greenlighter question. When you say pills, I assume you are referring to MDMA?!?

 

[Random_1]

yeah. any info appreciated

 

[Dr. Quack]

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/

 

[Ketamike]

I am a K evangelist...
K is not a blackmarket drug... if you get in in pure form, it's pharmacy grade and is technically safe for human use (if your friend says it could be laced, tell them to eat a fat dick.. anything could be laced.. but K rarely is.. i'd say never, but I count account for everyone)
K is very powerful.. Which means you don't have to snort much powder to get fucked up= less harm to your nose
K, when used in moderation, will not cause any 'noticeable' damage... Don't go buck-wild and inject everyday and you won't have any problems... But most of us don't have that much of a steady K supply... if you want to keep it totally safe... snort here and there, don't go overboard... and K is a ton safer than E.
Fine.. there is a stigma attached to snorting things... FUCK THAT... PhreeX considers me a "sissy girl" for not mainlining drugs... but snorting is totally reasonable.. especially with K... cuz you don't need a lot... if your friends roll but don't rock, tell them that those little brown spots in their pills are impurities and god only knows what that means.
I'm not 100% sure of this... K is a vetinary anaestetic... when they put a cat under... they INJECT it with appoximately a quarter to a half of an uncooked liq(pharmaceutical vial)... that's a fuckload of K... if that would knockout a cat, then a recreational dose many times smaller than that for a human is safe.
I don't know of anyone who has ever died of a Ketamine overdose... usually deaths are attributed to asphixiating on vomit.. or mixing it with a coernicopia of other drugs... just don't go overboard and you'll be cool.
To sum it up... it's regulated by the USP, the lethal dose is ridiculous, and it's not terribly bad for your nose...
did I mention that it cures premature ejaculation?

 

[Lane]

i thought Ketamine was unique in that it didn't affect the gag reflex, which would make it difficult for one die from asphixiating on their vomit.
[This message has been edited by Lane (edited 25 June 2001).]

 

[Petersko]

Ketamike - as an evangelist, you do a fine job, but I think you should be more realistic about the negative effects of Ketamine. There is some circumstantial-yet-scary evidence that moderate to heavy use of K causes brain damage in the form of "Olney's Lesions", or vacuoles.
Research into the long-term impact of K use is still in it's infancy, much like the research into MDMA use was a decade ago. Now the evidence is strong that MDMA is a harmful drug, and it's looking like K will be the same.
Having said all that, I like K very much.

 

[Quirks]

There is no evidence that lesions happen with recreational use. I use k practically everyday occasionaly im and have not had any problems, other then I don't get quite as good of sleep if I do it just before bed.

 

[Roches]

i am likewise a ketavangelist =P
first, i am very interested in seeing any research in a peer-reviewed journal that suggests that ketamine may be neurotoxic in humans in recreational doses. that is, that a significant amount of damage may accumulate with reasonable (say, once per two weeks) use of ketamine, as it does with MDMA.
in fact, i think almost everyone here has no information about Olney's lesions or NMDA antagonist neurotoxicity that *doesn't* come from the DXM FAQ or "This is your brain on dissociatives". I suspect strongly that the second is a well-advised attempt to protect the author against accusations of responsibility for any neurotoxicity that might occur, and note that even it says that ketamine may be safer than initially thought.
ketamine is not entirely safe, of course (and unfortunately i just found a reference to a fatal overdose with "numerous" bottles injected intravenously) but it is FAR SAFER than MDMA and "but your K causes brain damage!" coming from an MDMA user is just ridiculous.
the fact is, ravers think K is "dirty" because you have to snort it. this is the only reason. E is far more dangerous, causes more deaths and more long-term damage than K. it's the pharmacological equivalent of candy vs. jungle.

 

[muschi]

actually ketamine was introduced originally for hospital use around 1962... To replace PCP which was the primary anesthetic used in hospitals at that time. Ketamine is considered one of the *safest* hospital anesthetics because it doesnt slow the heart down like others.
It was primarly used in the children and the elderly for this reason, and is still used to this day.
The hospital dose is far greater then you could ever comprehend snorting... you would pass out long before killing yourself. so, dont worry about overdosing - It's quite difficult to do. Real *physical* dangers lie in its disassociative properties. (trying to walk and falling down a flight of stairs or something) So, i suggest not moving.
This of course is only with K-hole levels of ketamine. You can easily walk around on a smaller dose... but what the fuck is the point of doing just a little bit of ketamine. Ive never really understood that.
-muschi

 

[blufluffybunny]

K is technically safer than what your friends are doing. Why? because we know EXACTLY what ketamine does. There are no secrets ar mystery as to what it does, how it affects the brain and what the long term effects are. MDMA.. has not been around long enough for us to know the COMPLETE details of what the long term effects are.
(don't get me wrong, IT"S ALL GOOD!)
K was made for humans. You will pass out before you come even close to what they give you in hospital. Personaly I don't like the K-Hole. I've been there twice and I threw up? why you ask? Not because of the drug itself, because I felt sea sick. YUP! It was all that rocking and waving when I triend to move that did it. But the drug itself is safe.
I may do a small line or two to send my head sideways for a bit... but that's all I need.
So tell your friends to get all the facts before they criticise.
When they can prove that MDMA is safer than K, then they can talk.
------------------
*Adventure, excitement, A Jedi craves not these things*

 

[muschi]

blufluffybunny
i have a suggestion for you.
you might want try a k-hole dose of ketamine *without* moving. try it alone in a dark room, without any distractions. lie down on a bed or sit in a comfy couch and close... relax, and your eyes.
this should eliminate the seasick effects and provide you with a journey into the universal cyborg network. becomming a piece of global information is rather fun.
-muschi

 

[blufluffybunny]

I couldnt do it. I could not, for the life of me, stay still. Even worse, my friends were trying to get me to lie down, yet my legs wouldnt bend for me to get the ground...
Stoopid legs**
nah, not my cup of tea. I love wathing people on it, but its not my thing. I guess there are just some things that people cant handle. 4 sum its pot, for others its speed or pillz.....
But thanks anyway, maybe if I feel adventurous I'll give it a try.

 

[LSDestiny]

ok, so you decide to test the waters and put it up your nose... a drug, is a drug, is a drug...some people can handle their shit, some can't. same thing with alcohol: while the big fat guy in the corner can down 50 beers and be ok and love it, the "refined" gentleman reading his book just wants a shot or two. it's all about if your body can take it or not. you've just got to learn your limits. carefully test yourself. CAREFULLY. the human body can take a lot. have you ever seen two guys pull a car down the road via hooks threaded through the skin of their backs?

 

[wickedclown_stl]

The whole Olney's lesions thing...not likely. Professor Olney's theory is flawed for several reasons. First, the dose given to the rats was about ten times the dose given for human anesthesia, which is still well above the recreational dose. Second, an unpublished study using monkeys (a lot closer to humans genetically) found it completely impossible to duplicate Olney's results, even at higher doses. Olney's results were actually from MK-801 (dizocilpine if you care), a research drug that only bonds to the NMDA receptors, causing overexcitement which releases the HS470 (heat shock, I'm not sure if that's the right number, it doesn't really matter) protein which basically destroys every cell in its path to avoid total shutdown of the brain. Ketamine is very promiscuous, it bonds to receptors that prevent the overexcitement from happening way before the dose could cause it. Rats don't actually have those receptors. Olney's results also required several hours of constant exposure to the drug. The half-life of ketamine in the body is only half an hour.
Oh, and rats also have a much higher brain metabolism, meaning that their brains require much less stimulation to overheat. I'm sure their are more reasons, but I'm not going to say that the lesions are completely impossible, only fairly improbable. Sorry, but I did a very long report on Special K for my advanced chem. class. Read "Ketamine: Dreams and Realities" by Karl Jansen for a lot more information. Oh yeah, K is much, much safer than pure MDMA, and with the cocktail of drugs in the average pill, ecstacy is one of the most dangerous drugs (I understand that this opinion will not make me popular) but alcohol is still the most dangerous (our government is really fucked up). "LSD and ketamine, which produce profoundly altered states of being, have the least lasting effects on the human body...Alcohol may be one of the few drugs that can cause the level of actual brain damage required to produce a chronic psychosis" -Karl Jansen M.D., Ph.D, member of the Royal College of Psychiatrists
[This message has been edited by wickedclown_stl (edited 26 June 2001).]

 

[infinity]

in response to what 2 people said

does k mess u up more then pills?

i think that is a question that cant really be answered.. i would say K is stronger, but mdma can mess you up pretty bad too..

and K is a ton safer than E.

excuse me? while ecstasy might be impure (everyone is allowed to buy an ez test) i consider K to be a lot more addictive than E, and that makes it a lot unsafer to me (im not saying e isnt addictive).. i think we also have to realize that, for example the people who do e are often raver kids with no respect for a drug or a good insight on what they are doing (please dont flame me for this, i just dont have time to go into deep explanations) while i think that K users often have a little more knowledge or are just a 'different type' of drug user (im not saying all, but most (imho))

Which means you don't have to snort much powder to get fucked up= less harm to your nose

thats a weak argument if you realize that the AMOUNT of a substance does not determine if its harmful or not.. a little 2cb in your nose can burn like a firestorm while a load of coke just is a 'little drip'

 

[Petersko]

K is both physically and psychologically addictive, according to the Lycaeums Ketamine page (currently down - was there a mirror?).
From user experiences posted in this forum, the withdrawal symptoms associated with a Ketamine addiction are horrendous.
Does K mess you up more than MDMA? Certainly I would say so. Even small quantities of K remove motor skills, degrade perception, and cause thinking to become sluggish. MDMA doesn't cause nearly the level of inebriation that K does, in my opinion.

 

[pinwheel]

From the U.S. Dept. of Justice site...
"Its [ketamine's] appearance is similar to that of pharmaceutical grade cocaine, and it is snorted, placed in alcoholic beverages, or smoked in combination with marijuana."
Has anyone ever tried these alcohol/herb combinations?
Are they of any use?

 

[Billy Wonka]

Woohoo, my first post! Anyway, good post Wickedclown, you've cleared up some confusion that arose from reading the DXM faq and "your brain on disscoiatives" from erowid. Does anyone have any more information about what K actually does in your body (what receptors it attaches to, etc.) that isn't found on erowid? Thanks.
------------------
Let the rowers keep on rowing...

 

[wickedclown_stl]

Sorry, Petersko, but Lycaeum is probably down for good. And weed and K is nice, but probably pointless at higher doses.