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Jordan Peterson's year of 'absolute hell': Professor forced to retreat from public life because of addiction

SunriseChampion

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Idk? A psychologist isn't the same as a psychiatrist. I think it's totally feasible that he didn't know the ramifications or being on benzos.
I find that hard to believe. My first year psych courses (I dropped out like every other time I attempted post-secondary education) included a primer on drugs and how they work. And that was just an intro course. I'm sure he was aware. Which isn't to say it can't happen anyway. I mean, I knew meth was bad joo joo and I still got hooked on it for 8 months. Same with smoking....and fuck me, I'm still drinking booze.
 

nuttynutskin

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I find that hard to believe. My first year psych courses (I dropped out like every other time I attempted post-secondary education) included a primer on drugs and how they work. And that was just an intro course. I'm sure he was aware. Which isn't to say it can't happen anyway. I mean, I knew meth was bad joo joo and I still got hooked on it for 8 months. Same with smoking....and fuck me, I'm still drinking booze.
Well I don't know why anyone would willingly get themselves into that position, but like I said I don't really know much about the guy. Just giving my opinion.
 

Hylight

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He transferred to the University of Alberta, where he completed his B.A. in political science.
He studied the psychological origins of the Cold War, 20th-century European totalitarianism, and the works of Carl Jung, Friedrich Nietzsche, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, and Fyodor Dostoevsky. He then returned to the University of Alberta and received a B.A. in psychology in 1984. In 1985, he moved to Montreal to attend McGill University. He earned his Ph.D. in clinical psychology under the supervision of Robert O. Pihl in 1991, and remained as a post-doctoral fellow at McGill's Douglas Hospital until June 1993, working with Pihl and Maurice Dongier.

Makes sense to me !

I am sorry he ran into some problems with
Clonazepam but it just goes to show you what can happen
!
 

Rio Fantastic

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I used to enjoy his work - the typical self-help stuff - until it became increasingly apparent that he's just a conservative who dresses up his politics in pseudo-scientific jargon to justify his bog-standard right-wing ideology. His message has finally been well and truly belied by his conduct - he was hooked on benzodiazepines all whilst preaching that we should clean our rooms and set ourselves straight before putting the world to rights. The hypocrisy and irony in him failing to "set his own house in order" - with an escalating benzodiazepine addiction - whilst preaching to an audience and writing a book for public consumption about how other people should live their lives is astounding. How he's handled his attempt to come off of them with resounding failure really puts his empty message of self-reliance and "sorting yourself out" into perspective. I know benzo withdrawal is tough, but there are hundreds if not thousands on this very forum who have successfully seen it through, and JBP with all his talk of grit and individual resilience and with the best possible US treatment that his millions of dollars could afford him couldn't even handle them, couldn't suck it up and get through it and so made the ridiculous and absurd decision that he should be flown to Russia to be put into a coma just so he could avoid the withdrawal symptoms. So much for putting your shoulders back and facing the world head-on, so much for sorting yourself out - he will preach that to his audience, but when it comes to his own problems - fuck that, fuck the nobility of suffering to improve your life, he needs to be put into a coma by some backstreet Russian clinic. And of course, it's backfired on him. His genius plan to circumvent all medical expertise & advice and instead flee his withdrawals in Russia has led to significant physical & mental damage, apparently.

What a fucking fraud. And yet his acolytes are still defending him. Astounding.
 

THECATINTHEHAT

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I used to enjoy his work - the typical self-help stuff - until it became increasingly apparent that he's just a conservative who dresses up his politics in pseudo-scientific jargon to justify his bog-standard right-wing ideology. His message has finally been well and truly belied by his conduct - he was hooked on benzodiazepines all whilst preaching that we should clean our rooms and set ourselves straight before putting the world to rights. The hypocrisy and irony in him failing to "set his own house in order" - with an escalating benzodiazepine addiction - whilst preaching to an audience and writing a book for public consumption about how other people should live their lives is astounding. How he's handled his attempt to come off of them with resounding failure really puts his empty message of self-reliance and "sorting yourself out" into perspective. I know benzo withdrawal is tough, but there are hundreds if not thousands on this very forum who have successfully seen it through, and JBP with all his talk of grit and individual resilience and with the best possible US treatment that his millions of dollars could afford him couldn't even handle them, couldn't suck it up and get through it and so made the ridiculous and absurd decision that he should be flown to Russia to be put into a coma just so he could avoid the withdrawal symptoms. So much for putting your shoulders back and facing the world head-on, so much for sorting yourself out - he will preach that to his audience, but when it comes to his own problems - fuck that, fuck the nobility of suffering to improve your life, he needs to be put into a coma by some backstreet Russian clinic. And of course, it's backfired on him. His genius plan to circumvent all medical expertise & advice and instead flee his withdrawals in Russia has led to significant physical & mental damage, apparently.

What a fucking fraud. And yet his acolytes are still defending him. Astounding.
Your entire schtick is based upon the fallacious belief that someone has to be the perfect example of their beliefs and philosophies for them to be allowed to carry that message, or for that message to have validity. Personally I don't see the world in the rather simple terms you seem to....I don't assume that just because someone espouses a certain philosophy that they are always going to be able to carry it out perfectly. I don't require people to be perfect examples of humanity for me to be able to take value from them or for me to listen to what they have to say. Maybe you do, but I would suggest that's a somewhat short-sighted way of living your life.

You are typical of those who are part of modern outrage culture in that the lens you are choosing to view the world through is entirely combative and defensive to the point of exclusion over logic. I've never heard him 'preaching' anything personally, I've heard him talking about sets of ideas and saying that it might be advisable to consider those ideas if you want to have a successful life. I've never heard him claim that he's always able to live his life perfectly by those 'rules', he is after all a human with frailties and failures and like all of us will make bad decisions sometimes. I've never heard him suggest that those who choose not to follow his ideas are in some way lesser than those who do. Preaching doesn't seem to be an accurate description to me.

It's unclear exactly what his medical situation is as the way it has been reported is pretty unclear, although there do seem to be a lot of complications. If he was just going through a normal detox then yes I do tend to err on the side of saying just pull yourself together and do your cluck it aint that bad, but that's more about my ego than rational thought. I'm not privvy to all the relevant information (the same as all of us) so it's somewhat hard to pass comment on that.

I would be interested to hear what this 'bog standard right wing ideology' you think he is pushing is? I can't say that I've noticed that myself, I'd be interested to know more about it.

....and please, try to use paragraphs.
 

SunriseChampion

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@SunriseChampion

So you're saying that he should lose his job because?... Reasons, reasons, because he was an addict? What's this non-sense?
By what's this "non-sense?" I'm assuming you're referring to your own post. I think maybe you should lose your job because your reading comprehension skills are somewhat lacking if you managed to pull that meaning out of anything I wrote about the dude.

I didn't say anything about any reason for why he should lose his job. Read again.

Well I don't know why anyone would willingly get themselves into that position...
What position? Addiction? That shit just sneaks up on you and bam!, next thing you know you're drinking a bottle of wine every night just to go to sleep, or you've lost 30lbs because you haven't really eaten during your month-long meth binge, etc.
 

Rio Fantastic

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Your entire schtick is based upon the fallacious belief that someone has to be the perfect example of their beliefs and philosophies for them to be allowed to carry that message, or for that message to have validity. Personally I don't see the world in the rather simple terms you seem to....I don't assume that just because someone espouses a certain philosophy that they are always going to be able to carry it out perfectly. I don't require people to be perfect examples of humanity for me to be able to take value from them or for me to listen to what they have to say. Maybe you do, but I would suggest that's a somewhat short-sighted way of living your life.

You are typical of those who are part of modern outrage culture in that the lens you are choosing to view the world through is entirely combative and defensive to the point of exclusion over logic. I've never heard him 'preaching' anything personally, I've heard him talking about sets of ideas and saying that it might be advisable to consider those ideas if you want to have a successful life. I've never heard him claim that he's always able to live his life perfectly by those 'rules', he is after all a human with frailties and failures and like all of us will make bad decisions sometimes. I've never heard him suggest that those who choose not to follow his ideas are in some way lesser than those who do. Preaching doesn't seem to be an accurate description to me.

It's unclear exactly what his medical situation is as the way it has been reported is pretty unclear, although there do seem to be a lot of complications. If he was just going through a normal detox then yes I do tend to err on the side of saying just pull yourself together and do your cluck it aint that bad, but that's more about my ego than rational thought. I'm not privvy to all the relevant information (the same as all of us) so it's somewhat hard to pass comment on that.

I would be interested to hear what this 'bog standard right wing ideology' you think he is pushing is? I can't say that I've noticed that myself, I'd be interested to know more about it.

....and please, try to use paragraphs.
1. If he was pushing general self-help advice, then I wouldn't fault him for having personal problems. Yet when a core tenant of his philosophy is to set your life in order before criticizing others or trying to change the world & he builds his career upon telling people how to live and then it's revealed that his own life was in disarray while he was preaching this then it makes him a hypocrite. I don't even see how you can possibly deny this. When someone speaks out against cheating and then it's revealed they have been carrying on multiple affairs, would you similarly run to their defense? How about the preacher who it turns out was smoking meth and fucking rent boys? I guess you would be similarly quick to rush in and defend him, since "someone doesn't have to be a perfect example of their beliefs to carry a message". I am simply holding Jordan Peterson to the standard he sets for others - you seem to be implying we should hold him to a lower standard than he applies to others? Why?

2. Peterson gives moral advice. I find him to be self-righteous, therefore I brand it "preaching". This is a matter of opinion, not fact, so it doesn't really matter whether you believe he was preaching or not, I can still classify it as such.

3. Peterson was being guided through a medical detox and couldn't handle it which is why he went to Russia for a drug-induced coma. This is now a matter of public record, as detailed by his daughter. This is obviously irrational behavior - he can't bear the discomfort so he's looking for an easy way out of it. He hasn't got the strength of character to extricate himself from the addiction that he created with his own misguided choices, and through his own weakness he has possibly (hopefully) gotten himself brain damaged. Good riddance.

4. You deny Peterson is a conservative? Really? Have you even listened to him talk about politics? His entire political framework is built on the idea that change threatens the way of life we have now, that tradition & order are the bedrocks of our society, and that society evolves at our peril. This is Conservatism 101. Throw in the circus he created about his refusal to refer to a hypothetical trans person as their preferred pronoun (because for some unexplained, unclear reason this is the first step towards the re-creation of Stalin's Russia in North America), his victim-blaming mentality when it comes to the Me Too movement ("women wear makeup! that's sexually provocative!") & his espoused love for christian values and a pretty clear picture emerges of an old conservative, frightened & alarmed by progressive changes obscuring his basic, reactionary beliefs by talking nonsense about Jung and "archetypes" etc.

I understand that Peterson may have inspired you when you found his videos. I'm sure he had a big impact on you. All that profound, incredible wisdom like "clean your room" and "stand up straight" probably really touched and resonated with you, but you are letting your uncritical adoration blind you to even the simplest of facts about him like his fundamental politics.
 

Ravr

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Actually, the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal and various other provincial tribunals does deal with that...

"In Ontario, about three-quarters of all human rights claims come from the workplace. ... Human rights applications can be filed against employers – and also against contractors, unions or boards of directors. Employers and unions have a joint duty to make sure that workplaces are free of discrimination and harassment"....

you can also file not just against employers but landlords and various other institutions and individuals

"If you believe you have experienced discrimination or harassment, you can file an application with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario (HRTO). The HRTO resolves claims of discrimination and harassment brought under the Human Rights Code in a fair, just and timely way. The HRTO first offers parties the opportunity to settle the dispute through mediation. If the parties do not agree to mediation, or mediation does not resolve the application, the HRTO holds a hearing."

anybody calling for the denial of Justice from persons dealing with discrimination is a fucking bigot as is anybody who says otherwise.. Jordan Peterson and his cult are trash.
 
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nuttynutskin

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What position? Addiction? That shit just sneaks up on you and bam!, next thing you know you're drinking a bottle of wine every night just to go to sleep, or you've lost 30lbs because you haven't really eaten during your month-long meth binge, etc.
No, it seemed like you were saying since he was a psychologist he should've known better. But whatever, it's all speculation and I'm pretty sure he isn't reading this thread nor cares what anyone here thinks about it.
 

THECATINTHEHAT

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4. You deny Peterson is a conservative? Really? Have you even listened to him talk about politics? His entire political framework is built on the idea that change threatens the way of life we have now, that tradition & order are the bedrocks of our society, and that society evolves at our peril. This is Conservatism 101. Throw in the circus he created about his refusal to refer to a hypothetical trans person as their preferred pronoun (because for some unexplained, unclear reason this is the first step towards the re-creation of Stalin's Russia in North America), his victim-blaming mentality when it comes to the Me Too movement ("women wear makeup! that's sexually provocative!") & his espoused love for christian values and a pretty clear picture emerges of an old conservative, frightened & alarmed by progressive changes obscuring his basic, reactionary beliefs by talking nonsense about Jung and "archetypes" etc.
Did I deny he was a conservative? I'm pretty sure I didn't and that you're choosing to create a strawman argument there. He has a reasonably conservative outlook sure, that's not the same as a 'bog-standard right wing ideology'. He's entirely a right leaning centrist in pretty much all of his beliefs from what I can see.

It will serve you well to evidence the things that you claim because I can't really be bothered to check only so I can make a rebuttal if I feel it's appropriate. Suffice to say that EVERYTHING he voiced concerns about in relation to the pronouns debacle in Canada was entirely important, not just on a freedom of speech level but on a basic human justice level. I didn't see him say anything that could be considered discriminatory at all in relation to that, I may be wrong please show me if I am. Again, I didn't find him to be involved in saying anything I found discriminatory or controversial or that could be constituted victim blaming in relation to the metoo movement. Wearing makeup IS sexually provocative, that's the point of it, but again context is very important to how that statement should be perceived and you've chosen not to provide it.

I absolutely wouldn't deny that he's a conservative, but because I'm capable of engaging with people who believe different things to me (i.e. I'm a liberal), that doesn't preclude him in my mind from being someone worth listening to. I bought his last book but I never got round to reading it so I wouldn't exactly call myself a fanboy, I was originally attracted to him because I was investigating micro-routines and a lot of what he talks about is related to that.
 

Rio Fantastic

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You accused me of denying logic, so I explained my logic to you. Now you tell me you won't bother to respond to my logic unless I actually go out and find the evidence for you and provide it on a silver platter because you can't be bothered. Why should I further qualify myself to you? I expressed my opinion about him, which you argued with, just like you have with everyone who has painted a less than rosy picture of JBP in this thread. If you're not a fanboy, you're doing a very convincing impression of one. Also, the fact that you have really fallen hook, line and sinker for the right to refuse to comply with Bill C-16 being a "basic human justice" issue really shows how uncritically you've absorbed everything JBP told you. Nevermind the fact that it only covered discrimination in the workplace, and merely codified into law the basic human courtesy. You honestly believing that people should be allowed to misgender people in a way that constitutes harassment whilst in the workplace and that not making this a legal right constitutes injustice is an odd position for a liberal to take, but if you say so.

I bought his last book but I never got round to reading it so I wouldn't exactly call myself a fanboy
The guy is a fucking legend
I've noticed a lot of you Jordan Peterson fans when you're engaged in arguments over your idol feel compelled to downplay their adoration and act like they're not fans, just impartial observers. Why is that?
 

SunriseChampion

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No, it seemed like you were saying since he was a psychologist he should've known better. But whatever, it's all speculation and I'm pretty sure he isn't reading this thread nor cares what anyone here thinks about it.
I was just saying that I think he had at least some idea of what he was getting into. :)
 

Hylight

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I had the impression people in this community don't judge others but are here to support and help each other.

But no, lets just attack someone educated that has helped giving hope and philosophies.
 

Ravr

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Dude, nobody is judging, just pointing out the hypocrisy.... nobody, who advocates for the pick yourself from the boot strap mentally bs, who has to many what seems to be unlimited resources , shouldn't be falling into these traps.

I wish him well...
 

burn out

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No, it seemed like you were saying since he was a psychologist he should've known better. But whatever, it's all speculation and I'm pretty sure he isn't reading this thread nor cares what anyone here thinks about it.
As a psychologist, he really should have known better. I am not saying psychologists are somehow above addiction, but if you watch the updates by his daughter she claims he was not suffering from any kind of psychological addiction and blames it on the doctors. Now that might be an acceptable excuse for an ordinary person, especially someone who was prescribed benzos for a physical ailment like seizures, but for someone like Jordan Peterson who has been a practicing psychologist for many years, he had to know a thing or two about benzos. Sure, he may not have known exactly how bad withdrawal is (many medical professionals don't and will deny the existence of protracted withdrawal) but he had to know they were a habit forming drug and yet he still chose to take them every day for years apparently. I know psychologist isn't the same as psychiatrist but psychologists are still supposed to have basic knowledge of common psychiatric drugs, since they almost certainly will deal with patients who are taking these drugs or will refer patients to a psychiatrist if they think they need such drugs. A large tenet of Jordan Peterson's self help philosophy involves taking responsibility for your own problems and not blaming them on others, so in my opinion you can't really blame people for pointing out the hypocrisy when it turns out he was using benzos the whole time and then blaming the medical profession when things went south.

Having said that, the medical profession absolutely does over prescribe drugs and is not forth coming about the true nature of the dangers of said drugs. Having come off benzos myself 10 years ago I am all too familiar with the neurological damage they cause and it's unbelievable to me that this has been going on for over half a century now. How many more people need to get neurological damage before doctors stop prescribing these drugs for daily use? There are safer alternatives for anxiety.

As a side note, I find it interesting that about a year or so ago I watched a youtube video where Vox Day predicted that Jordan Peterson was heading for a breakdown.
 
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