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Harm Reduction Is to dangerous to mix Kratom/Dex/caffeine and Kratom/Concerta/Caffeine?

Mycophile

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
4,285
Hi,

So, I'm trying to stop taking Dexadrine right now and am planning a switch to Concerta if a doctor will agree, but I also have some temporarily until then to make the switch first myself and while I generally try not to take Kratom because I've gotten too into it in the past, I bought a very small amount to use VERY sporadically (I'm thinking like 2 doses a day no more than 3 days a week MAX) for like probably only like 2-3 weeks before I most likely throw it in the garbage before it becomes an issue for me again, but temporarily it gives just a bit of comfort from the Dexadrine WD and helps give me the energy to work out, which is hard at the moment otherwise. Since I have not used Kratom in months, my doses are only about 3--3.5 grams.

Tomorrow I am going to switch from the Dexdrine to Concerta on my own with the supply I have and hopefully that is safer and will cause fewer issues.

I drink about 4 1/2 cups of coffee a day, which I know is a fair amount, but I used to drink A LOT more.

I'd say I drink about 2 1/2 cups when I wake up, and then maybe another 2 give or take, maybe a little less or a little more, of the course of the rest of the day but not all in one sitting.

So now unless I fuck up at all with the limited number of Dex I have less (my doses were 27.5mgs, and I only have 13 doses left, so while I do NOT plan on taking them at all, the good thing is I don't have much anyway....)....so yeah.....now I'll be on Concerta (my friend who has supplied me has suggested i start at 36mgs and each pill is 18mgs), and maybe 3 days a week MAX I could slip up and be an idiot and take 2-3 doses of 3-4 grams throughout the day, and maybe 3 1/2---5 cups of coffee.

I know these are all stimulants, and mixing stimulants can't possibly be really healthy, but Kratom is not just a stimulant, it's also a relaxant, so I'm thinking that combining Kratom with Concerta or Kratom with Dexadrine is not the same as mixing Concerta with Dexadrine or Coke with Meth or something like that.

So......on the WORST days if I fuck up and take a couple 3.5gram doses of Kratom, and I also take 36mgs of Concerta and approx. 4 cups of coffee (not all in one sitting)...does that sound REALLY dangerous to you guys?? Like, the kind of danger that would cause heart attacks or strokes??

I hope not, and if so, I'll adjust accordingly.

Also, I heart that Asprin protects the heart and that is why people with heart problems take Asprin regimes, and once a few years back I took too much Dexadrine and was freaking that I was gonna have a heart attack and my friend told me to chew 2 Asprin and that it would lower my blood pressure, and it worked and I calmed down and felt better...so now when I am on a stimulant and I am worried that my blood pressure might get too high I will sometimes chew 2 regular strength Asprin with a glass of water (always spaced out by 4 hours as suggested and never more than 12 Asprins in a day).

Is this an ok/safe thing to do, to take a couple Asprin while on stimulants to protect my heart?

Is it likely to actually protect my heart from damage?

Or is it maybe not good or bad but possibly just not really likely to have much of an effect at all?

Could taking 2 Asprins have negative effects with drugs like Concerta, Dexadrine, Coffee and Kratom?

Also, do you think the reason my friend suggested I chew the Asprin and not swallow it is because it makes it kick in faster?



Thanks.
 
Also, I lift weights on sometimes while on Dexadrine (or now it will be Concerta), sometimes a little Kratom, and Coffee, and I did that today.

Is that dangerous?

I don't lift REALLY heavy, but not really light either.

One thing I have noticed that I don't like, is that when on Dexadrine if I lift weights I get very tired quickly from lifting and need to rest, and I think that might be a bad sign that I am over working my heart because of the Dexadrine, but as mentioned, I will no longer be taking Dexadrine and figure that Concerta is probably safer, and I know some other people work out on stimulants, but I am a bit worried cause I've never heard anyone say they get tired quickly like that when exercising on a stimulant and I should watch it I think.

But for some reason if I happen to be on Kratom while exercising on a stimulant I will either not get that really tired feeling, or if I do it won't be as bad, and maybe that means the Kratom is helping, or maybe it just means it's masking the fatigue.

What do you think?

Is this really dangerous?

If it is I'll adjust my behavior accordingly.
 
that's a lot of adrenergic agents to be taking at once... mitragynine is adrenergic, so is methylphenidate, and caffeine is also well known to raise b.p. and heart rate

aspirin won't do dick all to stop e.g. heart attacks or strokes from excessive vasoconstriction, it's more useful in cases where clotting is involved because of its antiplatelet effect


to be honest I would stick to EITHER the methylphenidate OR caffeine... go look up the effects of "ACE stacking" ... bodybuilders used to believe that mixing aspirin / caffeine / ephedrine would be themrogenic/help weight loss but the evidence seems to point to it being No Good for blood pressure/stroke risk.
 
that's a lot of adrenergic agents to be taking at once... mitragynine is adrenergic, so is methylphenidate, and caffeine is also well known to raise b.p. and heart rate

aspirin won't do dick all to stop e.g. heart attacks or strokes from excessive vasoconstriction, it's more useful in cases where clotting is involved because of its antiplatelet effect


to be honest I would stick to EITHER the methylphenidate OR caffeine... go look up the effects of "ACE stacking" ... bodybuilders used to believe that mixing aspirin / caffeine / ephedrine would be themrogenic/help weight loss but the evidence seems to point to it being No Good for blood pressure/stroke risk.

Well, ok, but the thing is I'm too addicted to caffeine to have NONE and function.

I am dependent on Dexadrine also and now I'm trying to quit and was told switching to Concerta would help me wean off, but I'm not ready to quit coffee and Dexadrine at the same time with nothing but Concerta to replace them with and have zero caffeine.

I could entirely leave the Kratom out of the equation, but I have taken Dexarine or Adderall + caffeine many many times (also with Kratom sometimes) and rarely had issues, although I know that doesn't mean the combo is not dangerous, in your opinion do you think that mixing Concerta and Caffeine is more dangerous than mixing Dexadrine and caffeine?

And what can I do if I can't function without caffeine?

Are you basically saying, even one cup of coffee or tea on Concerta (or Dexadrine) is too much and I am risking a stroke or heart attack by doing so?

My younger brother is prescribed Concerta and drinks 3-4 cups of coffee or tea a day everyday with it and has been for years and is fine.
 
Now I'm getting worried.

I feel I am probably going to need something to replace the Dexadrine with to help me wean off, and I get excessive anxiety over what to do if I have a very long day and haven't slept well enough and caffeine isn't enough to get me through it.

I've finally committed to getting off Dexadrine by thinking that Concerta could be TEMPORARILY a safer less abusable substitute and that it could help me get through those long days (along with a little caffeine since I basically can't function without it), but if that's not safe, then all I'll ever have to rely on is caffeine.

Now I don't know what to do.

I mean there's that one mod who has narcolepsy and he takes obscene amounts of Adderall with Modafinil and like 16 cups of coffee on a daily basis and I thought that has to be heart attack territory, but he seems ok.

I don't know what to do now.
 
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You should keep in mind, you do tend to get worried over every drug combination, this is not the first time I've seen a thread of this nature posted by you. I must reiterate that all I can do is make deductions about relative risk from the information availiable to me, I can't say 100% for certain whether it will effect you negatively or not.

My younger brother is prescribed Concerta and drinks 3-4 cups of coffee or tea a day everyday with it and has been for years and is fine.

That doesn't really mean it's totally harmless. Some people live to 90+ years smoking 2 packs of cigs a day, doesn't mean that smoking has no risks.

Are you going to be OK taking moderate doses of caffeine, methylphenidate, and kratom? Probably. Many people take caffeine while on methylphenidate and are fine.
Does it increase your risk for heart problems above baseline? Probably.
Will it kill you dead for sure the instant you mix the three? I doubt it.

You have to factor in your lifestyle and age, too. Do you had a family history of high blood pressure/stroke/heart attack? Are you young and healthy or maybe in middle age and less so?

Maybe consider that caffeine, amphetamine, and methylphenidate can all exacerbate anxiety too.

do you think that mixing Concerta and Caffeine is more dangerous than mixing Dexadrine and caffeine?

"The dose makes the poison" is the adage most applicable here. It all depends on dose, frequency, and your genetic predispositions.
 
You should keep in mind, you do tend to get worried over every drug combination, this is not the first time I've seen a thread of this nature posted by you. I must reiterate that all I can do is make deductions about relative risk from the information availiable to me, I can't say 100% for certain whether it will effect you negatively or not.



That doesn't really mean it's totally harmless. Some people live to 90+ years smoking 2 packs of cigs a day, doesn't mean that smoking has no risks.

Are you going to be OK taking moderate doses of caffeine, methylphenidate, and kratom? Probably. Many people take caffeine while on methylphenidate and are fine.
Does it increase your risk for heart problems above baseline? Probably.
Will it kill you dead for sure the instant you mix the three? I doubt it.

You have to factor in your lifestyle and age, too. Do you had a family history of high blood pressure/stroke/heart attack? Are you young and healthy or maybe in middle age and less so?

Maybe consider that caffeine, amphetamine, and methylphenidate can all exacerbate anxiety too.



"The dose makes the poison" is the adage most applicable here. It all depends on dose, frequency, and your genetic predispositions.

Ok thank you.

Yeah, I mean, that's the best answer anyone can give.

I guess Kratom doesn't always have an upper effect since it's what calmed down the Concerta + Caffeine induced freakout I was just having hahahaha, hence of course your point that they exaccerbate anxiety, (not Kratom for me though, but I still try not to use it much) in someone already prone to it.

Yeah, I'm totally "that guy" with the concerns over drug combos, of course, a harm reduction site is a good place for that, but weird to ask the questions and then not always heed the advice, but most of us are addicts afterall...

So...I guess the only real questions I'd ask you is: 1) do you think overall that the safety profile of Concerta as a time release methylphenidate is safer than instant release dexadrine (and also Vyvanse or extended release dexadrine?) in general, and also safer to combine with what really SHOULD be MODERATE amounts of caffeine than dex?

2) while I'll ask a doctor this question as the final call: do you think that Concerta would be a better option to help someone get over the short term effects of Dexadrine WD, or rather, a more closely related but time release amp like extended release Dex or Vyvanse?

3) Would you just taper the Dex, or would you quit cold turkey and not even try to use any other med to help?


I don't really want to taper the dex, I don't have much left and would probably rather quit cold turkey or replace it with Concerta, which I actually have access to already, though I don't yet have a prescription, but I need to know what to ask my doctor for.

I know I should not have access to short acting amps right now, and most likely not even anything in that same Amp class like Vyvanse, but was told that Concerta is pretty close to non-abusable and very safe (doesn't mean I'll react well to it though...)

I need to know what to ask my pschiatrist for when I speak to him next cause I certainly will not ask for a refill of Dex or Adderall IR. I already texted him saying I want Concerta but he'll probably give me whatever I want despite that...which is not necessarily such a good thing...

Thanks.
 
Holy Shit man! stop creating your own problems!...Buy a BP monitor and measure frequently as you vary or add stims. Sweeten to taste. Rinse and repeat!

I'm sure you never bothered to google reddit or the search function here as that would be too much work. Nobody is going to hold your hand forever!
 
I can't tell you what will work for you. You'll have to figure it out on your own, unfortunately.

FWIW, amphetamine use when kept in moderation (I'd say 50mg or less per diem) is not as bad as many people make it out to be, and methylphenidate does have a different mechanism of action than amphetanmine (reuptake inhibitor vs releasing agent). So you may find that staying on amphetamine and reducing the dose slowly is better than switching to Concerta.

Concerta is actually quite absuable, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. I remember kids back in high school crushing and snorting the fuckers.
 
Holy Shit man! stop creating your own problems!...Buy a BP monitor and measure frequently as you vary or add stims. Sweeten to taste. Rinse and repeat!

I'm sure you never bothered to google reddit or the search function here as that would be too much work. Nobody is going to hold your hand forever!

IKR? lol I feel like I'm going crazy just reading this thread. :ROFLMAO:
 
You should keep in mind, you do tend to get worried over every drug combination, this is not the first time I've seen a thread of this nature posted by you. I must reiterate that all I can do is make deductions about relative risk from the information availiable to me, I can't say 100% for certain whether it will effect you negatively or not.



That doesn't really mean it's totally harmless. Some people live to 90+ years smoking 2 packs of cigs a day, doesn't mean that smoking has no risks.

Are you going to be OK taking moderate doses of caffeine, methylphenidate, and kratom? Probably. Many people take caffeine while on methylphenidate and are fine.
Does it increase your risk for heart problems above baseline? Probably.
Will it kill you dead for sure the instant you mix the three? I doubt it.

You have to factor in your lifestyle and age, too. Do you had a family history of high blood pressure/stroke/heart attack? Are you young and healthy or maybe in middle age and less so?

Maybe consider that caffeine, amphetamine, and methylphenidate can all exacerbate anxiety too.



"The dose makes the poison" is the adage most applicable here. It all depends on dose, frequency, and your genetic predispositions.

I literally almost died from methylphenidate + caffeine. Previously, I had taken MP at oral doses of 60+ mg(up to 100 mg) orally for no other reason than to get high. I had also snorted 20-30 mg of MP for 2 days straight, and had barely a heart problem. But once I took 40 mg of MP. About 2.5-3 hours latter when the euphoria was subsiding, I popped another 60 mg. About an hour latter, I was very euphoric again, but wanted even more euphoria. However, since I had dropped 100 mg of MP in 4 hours and had little MP left, instead of popping more, I decided to take caffeine powder, which I often use as a pre-workout stimulant. I took half a coffee spoon, about 400-500 mg. Literally 15 minutes latter, I started to feel sicker than I've ever felt in my life. My heart was pounding over 240 BPM and it would pound, then stop. I felt a feeling of absolute prostration and an intense feeling of panic and despair. My vision started to blur and I truly felt like I was going to die. Using the little strength I had, I got into the car and drove to a hospital. My vision was going dark and I was struggling to remain conscious. As I drove, I yelled at people on the streets asking them to help me because I was going to die. I arrived at the hospital nearly collapsing, and all I could do was yell at the doctors "Stimulant overdose!!" "Adrenergic emergency. Possibly dying!!" Even in my state of almost unconscious, I was trying to convey to the doctors as much information as possible of what was going on so they would help me. So they intubated me and gave me benzodiazepines first. My HR was 250 BPM and my heart was severely arrytmic. They gave me anti-arritmics and did an exam of my heart. My heart was beating extremely fast, and yet it was pumping very little blood, and it could barely pump. It was also erratic, and would beat 5 times really fast and then stop beating for 1-2 seconds, which is why my vision was going dark as not enough blood was reaching my brain. This was the most terrifying experience I had in my life. This is why I decided to come clean. I came to the conclusion that living in a permanent state of euphoria is not sustainable(unfortunately). Tragically, boredom, apathy and anhedonia are parts of life. It is awful, but unfortunately it is the truth. You can't drug away all moments of boredom and unpleasantness.

My experience with caffeine is that it is not in itself a very rewarding drug. It does give you a mild ephoria is you haven't taken it in a while, but not cocaine-like. However, caffeine dramatically increases the intensity and effect of other stimulants. 20 mg of amphetamine + 200 mg of caffeine feel more euphoric than 60 mg of amphetamine on it's own. Caffeine appears to have a synergistic effects with other stimulants. What I mean by this is that the sum of the effects of both drugs combined becomes much greater than either drug taken on it's own. For instance, amineptine alone feels like low dose cocaine. But amineptine + caffeine feels like crack. Yeah, it feels literally like crack.. I once literally cummed in my pants after taking 200 mg amineptine + 300 mg caffeine.
 
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