Misc Is medium term use of gabapentin as a taper aid a bad idea?

axn5445

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I'm trying to taper off of a huge dose of phenibut (11 grams) in a shorter amount of time because I have been taking it for about two years (at between 8-12 grams) and every slow taper leads to me going back up near the end as I lose my determination, If a taper about a gram and a half a week I could be off it in a 2 or less months. Normally I can't drop more than 500 a week and remain functional, but gabapentin seems to enable me to do more between 800-2000mg a day. Unlike phenibut I also don't seem to experience any significant tolerance to gabapentin.

What, if any, withdrawal would I be getting from gabapentin if I just drop it after the taper?
 

HeadHigh

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Youll get minor withdrawals, usually just rebound anxiety, but it will most likely be worth it because its easier to deal with than phenibut withdrawal. Best of luck to you
 

Jetthecaf

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I've taken it up to 4000mg a day for a few weeks at a time several times durin withdrawal and never felt noticeable withdrawal. A lot of people here will say there isn't withdrawal from short term use or it is minor. Some people have had a lot of trouble with it on the other hand lasting for a couple months after long term use
 

N0 W4RN1NG

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You should take the gabapentin in divided doses ("staggered", around 400mg every 30 minutes) with a fatty meal because taking large doses at once seem to not affect some people the way it should.

And with that kind of a phenibut habit you will need large doses of gabapentin.

Getting on a mood stabilizer/anti epileptic like (esli)oxcarbazepine that has some GABAergic action in addition to ion channel magic may help your determination as well, in addition to helping prevent anything bad from happening (seizures)...baclofen should work as well
 

Speed King

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I've heard 300, every 45 min to an hour. It seems, the longer the better. Depending on how much Gabapentin you need to use to taper, it shouldn't be too bad tapering off Gabapentin. Don't get hung up on the side effects, just use the minimal amount of Gabapentin you need and only use it as a taper drug. It may or may not work. Only you will know.
 

blue comet

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What about benzos? Gabapentin can have some nasty side effects at high doses, such as weight gain and psychological abnormalities.
 

mazda01

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how long do you plan on using the gabapentin for and at what dosage per day? i've taken 6 grams a day/daily of gabapentin for several weeks and at most had some rebound anxiety and slight trouble falling asleep but they'll be very manageable considering the phenibut dosage you're trying to get off of.

it's odd you say that you haven't noticed any tolerance issues as it does happen very quickly with gabapentin and the effects seem to diminish but they still work excellent for opiate withdrawals which is what i always use them for and then i end up liking how i feel on them all day long so i just keep taking them until my script runs out. then i just wait until i can get it filled again (i've done this on more than 3 different months). i'm prescribed 1.8 grams total a day, I take 600mg 3 times a day.
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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Getting on a mood stabilizer/anti epileptic like (esli)oxcarbazepine that has some GABAergic action in addition to ion channel magic may help your determination as well
GABAergic activity doesn't work directly on the second messenger system. Hence, it's redundant to say that it activates/inhibits chloride anion/calcium cation channels. That's why the receptors that respond to GABA are deemed ligand-gated ion channels. It's like saying that ethanol binds to the GABA receptor and ethanol disinhibits you. Neuroscience 101.
 

N0 W4RN1NG

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Hi Ho-Chi,

I am not sure if you completely understood my post - perhaps I worded it wrong. Oxcarbazepine (and it's new pro drug, eslicarbazepine, and even the older carbamazepine) are thought to work by, of course, inhibiting ion channels by affecting membrane permeability, but also by binding at some additional GABA-ergic sites.

Lamictal (lamotrigine) for instance, is a very good mood stabilizer, but ONLY affects ion channel conduction, and does not appreciably bind to any GABAergic receptors.

This is all to the best of my recollection, it has been quite a while since I took neuroscience 101.
 

mike.vick

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Anybody find that phenibut makes them incradibley sick in the stomache like a million razors are in your guts?
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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^That should inform your usage, I would think.

Hi Ho-Chi,

I am not sure if you completely understood my post - perhaps I worded it wrong. Oxcarbazepine (and it's new pro drug, eslicarbazepine, and even the older carbamazepine) are thought to work by, of course, inhibiting ion channels by affecting membrane permeability, but also by binding at some additional GABA-ergic sites.

Lamictal (lamotrigine) for instance, is a very good mood stabilizer, but ONLY affects ion channel conduction, and does not appreciably bind to any GABAergic receptors.

This is all to the best of my recollection, it has been quite a while since I took neuroscience 101.
Yeah I guess I was being kind of a smartass.

I don't know a whole lot about the mood stabilizers, but saying something is GABAergic is also saying that causes increased and/or decreased permeability of channel proteins. But I guess you're saying that it directly acts as a ligand of (voltage or ligand, or both?)-gated ion channels. It was a bit vague but now we understand each other.

That bit about lamictal not directly affecting GABA might be a clue as to how it works wrt depression over mania. I recall that it's also a sigma agonist, which receptor I know woefully little about.
 

N0 W4RN1NG

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All good, my friend! Mood stabilizers really are some of the least understood chemicals, IMO. They appear to work in a number of different, sometimes synergistic, ways - and in other times multiple UNRELATED ways. And then you get into the whole field of anti-psychotics, D2 or 5HT antagonists, being used as mood stabilizers. It's a real mess if you ask me, and each doctor will have their own opinion, since there are numerous studies out their, which although professionally performed individually, can contradict each other as a group. And then we have META-ANALYSES being performed, with good intent of course, on studies whose results partially contradict each other. Oh my, what a web we weave...

And don't worry, the sigma receptors seem to be highly elusive to even the most professional of scientists. The two subtypes seem to, first of all, be rather different than you would expect from receptors in the same class, and sigma1 in particular seems to have a mind of it's own, causing different reactions in the brain, totally dependent on which OTHER receptors are being simultaneously.

Fascinating stuff - but can be a great recipe for headache!

Cheers.
 

Prescottdave

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You should be ok. I took Gabapentin for two months after getting off suboxone. When i stopped the gaba I had noticeable withdrawals that lasted several weeks. The thing is I had a history of benzo use. I had also stopped taking Ativan at the same time as the sub. If you limit your use to a few weeks you should be fine.
 

blue comet

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I have a history of benzo use as well and took gabapentin for under two months to deal with severe insomnia and some lingering minor anxiety that I had. I was about 4.5 months off benzos when I started it. It caused rough psychological and physical side effects when I was on it, and after about 3 weeks I was going into interdose withdrawal.

I finally stopped them after just seven weeks on 03/25/2015 and have been suffering severe and crippling protracted withdrawal that has made my cold turkey of a four year benzo/ambien use seem like a night at the playboy mansion.

Since then, I have been unable to drive, travel, consume alcohol or caffeine, or do anything to advance my life/career/relationships due to bad cognitive impairment. My hair has not stopped falling out since. I take a bus to my job which is under five miles from my house. I have declined promotions and have put off pursuing openings for better positions at higher paying companies due to my inability to figure anything new out and all the stupid mistakes I make at work.

I appear to be in the rarity of rough withdrawal and side effects, but the point is that it does happen. Good luck.
 

Jetthecaf

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Blue comet I've read a few posts from you about your situation and it seems rare and scares me and hope it gets better. How certain are you that it is from just the gaba? I notice a little withdrawal from taking them for a few weeks and I have a leftover script that I take 300 or 600mg ever second day now. It does seem like people who were on benzos have a harder time
 

Speed King

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I have withdrawn from pregabalin and Gabapentin. It's not horrible. You just have to have a reasonable plan in place. Withdrawal can be from a month to a few months for certain people. It's not that bad.
 

jammin83

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I have withdrawn from pregabalin and Gabapentin. It's not horrible. You just have to have a reasonable plan in place. Withdrawal can be from a month to a few months for certain people. It's not that bad.
I think its right on up there with benzos in the worst shit ever department. yikes. not too bad after short term use and it takes a few weeks to gain a dependency to it but after you do, youre fucked.

I think people with a history of benzo/gabaergic drugs should avoid gabapentin. seems like the people that get fucked up withdrawals from gaba have abused benzos in the past. not sure if its causal or not, but ive def noticed a correlation.
 

blue comet

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I don't know if gabapentin caused my problems by itself, or if I had a gentle CNS from withdrawal from benzos/ambien months earlier so was in a more sensitive state.

All I know that 100% of my current problems are from ingesting gabapentin for seven weeks.
 

Speed King

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I think its right on up there with benzos in the worst shit ever department. yikes. not too bad after short term use and it takes a few weeks to gain a dependency to it but after you do, youre fucked.

I think people with a history of benzo/gabaergic drugs should avoid gabapentin. seems like the people that get fucked up withdrawals from gaba have abused benzos in the past. not sure if its causal or not, but ive def noticed a correlation.
Great reply. I can stand by this. In the end, ymmv.
 
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