Misc In need of serious help, don't know what the fuck is wrong with me.

[phenylbutt]

I am truly sorry for being one of these people that makes one of these desperation posts. But here's what's up.
For some background, I used to use opiates pretty bad (summer 2014) and got on suboxone from August 2014 to May 2015. Since I was buying suboxone illegally, my parents didn't know about it. I told my older brother about my addiction and medicinal recovery and he kind of freaked out and told my parents.
Well, we decided that I should go to rehab, so I went from May to August of last year and it was actually an amazing experience.
Anyway, I began living in a halfway house in August, and was reminded of a drug called Phenibut that a friend of mine had in his "supplement stack". It prompted me to buy some of my own, and my addictive personality just hit the ground running. I immediately starting taking upwards of 7g/day, and made sure that I never ran out so I wouldn't have to experience those hellish withdrawals.
Fast forward to December, I move out of the sober house, and despite this phenibut addiction, I actually am living a happy/healthy life. i have a job as an electrician's helper, I quit smoking cigarettes cold turkey, and am running four or five miles a day, and getting up at 4:30 a.m. to do so.
But underlying all of this is my now 10g/day phenibut addiction. Instead of taking one nice big dose of it every day I take 3g here, 4g there, it all equals out to be above ten a day.
And I also got back on suboxone because I find it has excellent andtidepressant effects. I take about .25mg a day. One 8mg tablet lasts me close to a month.
Now, what has happened here in the last week is that I have not slept more than just dozing off in about ten days, I'm feeling trippy/panicky, and I'm not sure what is causing it. I've read that suboxone can contribute to a lack of sleep, but I'm afraid that I've just completely shot my GABA receptors from the phenibut and that I'll never feel normal again. I really want to quit. Tapering has proven unsuccessful because I keep getting this empty feeling from lowered doses and can't stand it and always end up dosing back up. I made an appointment with a psychologist for tomorrow.
So please, someone help me. I don't know what to do. I'm afraid I'm going to enter full blown psychosis or die from the lack of sleep and still never get my full sleep because of the drugs. But the withdrawals from these substances will be the end of me.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

GABA B agonists have a notorious and serious withdrawal syndrome:

auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, tactile hallucinations, delusions, confusion, agitation, delirium, disorientation, fluctuation of consciousness, insomnia, dizziness (feeling faint), nausea, inattention, memory impairments, perceptual disturbances, pruritus/itching, anxiety, depersonalization, hypertonia, hyperthermia, formal thought disorder, psychosis, mania, mood disturbances,restlessness, and behavioral disturbances, tachycardia, seizures, tremors, autonomic dysfunction, hyperpyrexia (fever), extreme muscle rigidity resembling neuroleptic malignant syndrome and reboundspasticity


You NEED to do a slow taper. Take 1000 mg 4 times a day for two weeks and slowly taper it down by 250mg a dose every two weeks from there. Take it slowly and you will be okay.

That is all you need to do. There is nothing to worry about as phenibut is easily accessible. Do as I advise and you won't notice a thing. I promise

If your psychologist advises you NOT TO TAPER do not listen as you will have SERIOIOUS SIDE EFFECTS AS LISTED ABOVE.

He will not know what he is talking about it. Please heed my advise.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

http://www.gablofen.com/pdf/gablofen-prescribing-information.pdf

Prescribing information for GABLOFEN, a prescription GABA B agonist called baclofen, the drug that was derived from phenibut, read the black box warning:

Sudden withdrawal of Gablofen may result in serious complications that include high fever, confusion, muscle stiffness, organ failure and death. Early symptoms of Gablofen withdrawal may include increased spasticity, itching, and tingling of extremities.

You were taking EXTREMELY high dosages of phenibut. You need to do a very lengthy, slow taper. Like you would with benzodiazepines or barbiturates.

I'm surprised you are not delirious/psychotic right now. If you stop completely, in four days - that seems to be the general consensus around here - you will probably start hallucinating/seizing.

 

[roxi2873]

Suboxone will make it hard to sleep too. When I first got on sub maintenance I didn't sleep at all for the first 7 days, then for 2 weeks after that I would sleep for maybe an hour at a time. It took a full month before I could sleep normal again. I don't know if stopping the subs would help you or not though.

 

[mazda01]

please could you try not to swear as much its just unpleasant for people like me to read thanks and have a good one

your only feedback was to ask them not to swear? not helpful at all but anyways.

I would say that your sleep issues are from acute phenibut withdrawal. you've messed with your gaba system to such an extreme that your central nervous system physically needs the phenibut. your blood plasma levels are probably not constant so you're experiencing withdrawal in between doses. are you having trouble falling asleep or do you wake up in withdrawal? do you awake in a panic or anxiety ridden?

you'll need to do a taper. i don't personally think the suboxone at those dosages would be affecting your sleep but that's just my opinion. try to reduce your phenibut usage by 500mg every week. you could take 250mg less each time you dose if you dose twice a day. If you dose 4 times a day, then you could lower your dosage by 125mg per dosage. Good luck

 

[Mycophile]

What concerns me about this kind of thing is that unless you are in Russia, most doctors probably don't even know what Phenibut is.

It's time for modern doctors and psychiatrists to start doing their homework on RCs and underground supplements so they know how to deal with it.

I remember one poster saying that when he told his doctor he was addicted to Phenibut and even brought some in to show him the doctor blew it off and said he'd never heard of it so it couldn't be a big deal and didn't even believe that Phenibut was a real drug.

I think we have a lot of arrogant doctors who don't want to admit that their are gaps in their knowledge to the extent that a mere kid could be aware of a drug they aren't so they refuse to acknowledge it.

I myself generally never dose more than 4,000mgs once daily, but recently discovered I *CAN* dose 7,500mgs spread out through the week or even two days in a row and be ok, but I will NEVER EVER exceed that.

They say never to exceed 4,000mgs weekly on the tub so really that is what people should probably stick to, regardless or whether you do it all in one day or spread out, but I think it's safe to assume that doing any more than twice that in a week is already asking for trouble, let alone a STAGGERING 70,000mgs a week.

 

[chase_in_56ace]

You could realistically obtain 12mg of ativan and use it to do a rapid taper. Drop 1g every night and up the ativan dose as needed. It will help the insomnia and also negate SOME of the gaba B withdrawal symptoms. If you can obtain a prescription for 800mg gabapentin, you'd be in even better shape.

Without benzos or another gaba B drug, your only option is to slowly taper the absolutely massive amount of phenibut you're currently addicted to. The most important thing to remember is that this will not be a fun ride. Expect the worst in an inviting way- for example, when you feel desperately empty and possibly suicidal, it will make a WORLD of difference having prepared for that despair and knowing it's just the withdrawal talking.

If there's any hope, as nasty as Gaba B withdrawal is, for me it gets better rapidly. As other posters noted it really begins to get bad 72-96hrs into it. For me it clears up tremendously after a week. Remember though, I mentally prepare for every symptom and do a gradual taper before jumping off.

Quitting cold turkey or running out of substance when dependent on extremely high doses of gabapentin, lyrica, or phenibut is an absolutely horrific experience that should be avoided through gradual tapering by any means necessary.




To sum up the seriousness of your situation, I'll word it clearly. If you were to lose your tub of phenibut tomorrow, I believe that would constitute enough of a medical emergency to where you should seek medical attention immediately and pray for gabapentin and benzos. The most important things to remember is do NOT psyche yourself up about the upcoming withdrawal. Do a gradual taper using the aformentioned meds, and don't get hooked on those either.

I have a ton of experience with gaba B withdrawal. Feel free to PM me. I mean that! Good luck man

-chase

 

[Keif' Richards]

Forgive me if any of this has already been said. If it were me in this situation, I would be looking to see a Doctor and to hopefully start some kind of medically supervised medication taper, possibly with drugs that have demonstrated some degree of cross-tolerance for Phenibut, namely Gabapentin (Neurontin) or Pregabalin (Lyrica). I'm sure you could also easily obtain something like Clonidine in the process. Clonidine is definitely useful, helping with sleep, hot flashes, excessive perspiration etc.

If you're lucky, you might be able to obtain something along the lines of a Benzodiazepine or a Z-Drug; Alprazolam (Xanax), Clonazepam (Klonopin), Lorazepam (Ativan) - Zolpidem (Ambien, Stillnoct) etc. I'm really not sure to what extent, if any, Benzodiazepines would be cross-tolerant with something like Phenibut.

One uphill battle that you have ahead of you, is the relative obscurity of Phenibut to people in the medical community. I've been to detox a few times in my life and I can tell you that most of the Doctors and Nurses have never heard of Phenibut and thus were'nt familiar with its effects, but some were, so you never know. Either way, I think you should get a Doctor involved, it might make the process a lot more bearable for you.

 

[FnX]

I'm afraid I'm going to enter full blown psychosis or die from the lack of sleep and still never get my full sleep because of the drugs. But the withdrawals from these substances will be the end of me.

I know how you feel, I've been there thanks to benzos. It seemed to go on and on and on and on, and eventually I was psychotic from the lack of sleep. I didn't taper properly. Even so, eventually I got back my sleep but it was the most hellish experience of my life, maybe it wouldn't have if I had tapered slow. Was happily off benzos for over a year and could sleep properly again, until I was admitted to a hospital and forced to take benzos against my will putting me back on the train but that's another story.

 

[JamesB1985]

I know how you feel, I've been there thanks to benzos. It seemed to go on and on and on and on, and eventually I was psychotic from the lack of sleep. I didn't taper properly. Even so, eventually I got back my sleep but it was the most hellish experience of my life, maybe it wouldn't have if I had tapered slow. Was happily off benzos for over a year and could sleep properly again, until I was admitted to a hospital and forced to take benzos against my will putting me back on the train but that's another story.

How were you 'forced' to take benzo's? if I may ask..

 

[Oakstone]

As others said, I'd recommend doing a slow taper, possibly using some gabapentin to help during that (though make sure it doesn't just replace phenibut), and I might also suggest using some kava to help during the taper as well. I recently stopped using phenibut (albeit only about one gram per day), and using kava helped a lot during then, especially for sleep and anxiety.

 

[Toscacat]

I would, too, suggest a long, slow taper. Your GABA receptors have been down-regulated by chronic use of a GABA agonist, and the gene transcription/cell signaling required for their recreation takes time. There's really no reason to do it fast, unless you want to have a seizure. You could use gabapentin, but that has a shorter half-life.

Amazing what people think of "supplements." Gabapentin is next to be controlled here in the United States because of its potential for abuse and dangerous withdrawal syndrome. But my "peers" pass the shit out like candy.

 

[dus_aster]

Recently was in a similar situation (albeit, having tapered from 5g/day to 1.5g/day), and asked my doc for Gabapentin (a lot of GPs are convinced it's harmless...).
Ran out of phenibut the day after obtaining the prescription, and found withdrawal could be eliminated if one utilized a 2/1 ratio of gabapent/pheni. That is, I used 3000mg taken as needed on the first day, reducing dosage by 100mg a day (more, if I felt I could get away with it), using a CBD rich cannabis strain (VCDC) for breakthrough anxiety/malaise. That, keeping busy, and, if you can manage it, frequent brisk walks managed to make it totally liveable.

Granted, at your dosage, you would be taking an ungodly amount of gabapentin, so tapering as far as you can would be advantageous? Unsure if you drink, as well, but liquor prolonged my w/d, and the hangover from drinking induced relapse twice. As well, nasty rebound effects from even a single unit of ethanol.
Apologies for formating, on a tablet.

Good luck...it will so, so be worth it.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

sorry to hijack...but does anyone know how bad a WD someone would have from a measly 50mg lyrica or 400 mg phenibut per night habit? I never really went higher than that but have been doing it for about 6 months.

also are these two doses of the different substances roughly equivalent or not? because soon I will only have phenibut left and don't want to be taking more than an equal dose of the 50mg lyrica and get myself more dependent


to the OP....tapers are supposed to have you feeling like shit but not dying....if you don't feel like shit 24/7 you aren't tapering. I did a taper totally off of opioids and i felt like shit for the whole month I was really dropping dosages each day

 

[CBDizzle]

How were you 'forced' to take benzo's? if I may ask..

C'mon man... That's not HR, nor is it very polite. I'm sure if he/she wanted the world to know, then that person would've posted it.

IME, I would choose the Gabapentin over the Lyrica (Pregabalin) anyday. For me, Lyrica is way stronger and exponentially more difficult to stop taking than Gabapentin. And you don't want to have another problem after you overcome this one, right?

Good luck, broski...%)

 

[phenylbutt]

http://www.gablofen.com/pdf/gablofen-prescribing-information.pdf

Prescribing information for GABLOFEN, a prescription GABA B agonist called baclofen, the drug that was derived from phenibut, read the black box warning:

Sudden withdrawal of Gablofen may result in serious complications that include high fever, confusion, muscle stiffness, organ failure and death. Early symptoms of Gablofen withdrawal may include increased spasticity, itching, and tingling of extremities.

You were taking EXTREMELY high dosages of phenibut. You need to do a very lengthy, slow taper. Like you would with benzodiazepines or barbiturates.

I'm surprised you are not delirious/psychotic right now. If you stop completely, in four days - that seems to be the general consensus around here - you will probably start hallucinating/seizing.

I ended up fine, still recovering from the depression a little bit, I got a four-day clonazepam script for the first bit, it worked wonders.

 

[Mracid]

Hi I hope the posts of below will have helped.
But I have some insights that were not mentioned below,

Phenibut is a moderate GABAB agonist and Moderate voltage gated calcium blocker, the thing is that phenibut is not selective toward any specific voltage gated calcium channel so it fucks up nearly every feedback your body gives you when you stop it.

Basically what unselective voltage gated calcium channel blockers do is block some pathways that your body use to communicate to your brain, like the opposite of making a physical movement. Thats why it has some serious sensorial and perceptual side effect when stopped.

What you can do is basically like every1 said tapper off, BUT Along with tappering off, I would suggest trying Hydroxyzine before benzo to sleep.
Also I would use Clonazepam through the day instead of the mentioned lorazepam for its better selectivity towards physical symptoms related receptors, lorazepam is more of a mind calming substance.

Those 2 should allow you to sleep, stay in contact with reality and lower the physical discomfort.(do not forget that this is added to tappering the Phenibut dose slowly) If those work you can do what I wrote below but without the 2 other added substances (keeping in mind to always tapper of the more serious substance first and carefully)

If the 2 drugs above arent enought and you are in a place where cannabis is legal or if you do not care about legality of cannabis, I would suggest Oral administration of cannabis, it should also lower physical symptoms (smoking it is more a mind effect while oral is more whole body)

If those 3 drugs do not work I would suggest you to ask for baclofen instead of clonazepam or with it if you really are in a bad state.

So worst case scenario, you trade phenibut for: Clonazepam, Hydroxyzine, Oral cannnabis and mabe baclofen. Which is still something but are easier to get rid of.

If you get rid of phenibut in the worst case scenario that would be a good achievement, you should lower gradually clonazepam and baclofen and up hydroxyzine, without touching to your oral cannabis dose (keep it steady).

Still in the worst case scenario, once you get rid of clonazepam first (tappering also) You should have only Hydroxyzine for sleep and contact with reality, baclofen and oral Cannabis for physical discomfort.

Next step is getting rid of baclofen by tappering off.

Once this is done the only thing you will have is Hydroxyzine and oral cannabis, that would be the time to lower cannabis dosage slowly until its no more daily use.

Hydroxyzine will be the only one left and the easiest to stop, once you feel able to sleep better without it, you tapper it off and get back to sober life.

Basically you replace HARD WD (Phenibut) for still HARD WD(Clonazepam&Baclofen) but smoother than phenibut, then replace lower HARD WD for MED WD(Baclofen only), then replace MED WD for LIGHT WD(Oral cannabis only), and then you have the option of keeping hydroxyzine (non abusive drug) for sleep or simply tapper of and get back to sober with barely noticeable WD.

Keep in mind that your body will always ask for a specific substance so trading one drug for another is really touchy, thats why I suggest you take the lowest effective dose of the 4 other substances mentionned above ALONG with tappering phenibut, Then start tappering others one at a time.

Once sober you should start asking yourself why you use drugs theres no limit to asking why (our mind is like an onion, the why? peel the layers one at a time until you get to the REAL reason you use the drug) Once you find this reason you should work on it instead of trying other substances, I dont say do not use any drugs, I am saying know why you use them THE REAL WHY and if that reason is not logical try a logical way of solving the problem. (I find shrooms help alot to peel the onion but that might just be my opinion)

I hope you will get out of this without too much discomfort, but pain is something that is part of life and we should all accept it and face it.
Good luck and may peace come to your mind.