the life doesnt matter bro..its the half life thats imporatant(long R3 IGF has a half life like i said of about 10hrs).....i said all along inject only twice a day..go up and read my post... DOM i thionk they way you have it twice a day at 20mcg each shot would be perfect bro...pre workout or post doesnt really matter at all so whatever way you feel comfortable doing it is fine...test it out both ways see which one works better for you and go from there
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SIED Moderators: Genetic Freak | Serotonin101
IGF injection times
- Thread starter DomPow
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here is Basskilllers actual post this one is a pretty good read..
GREAT READ on IGF-1
(From: Basskiller)
IGF1, also known as somatomedin C, is polypeptide hormone about the same size as insulin. It is produced predominantly in the liver in response to growth hormone (GH) release from the pituitary gland. Many of the growth promoting effects of GH are due to its ability to release IGF1 from the liver. The conversion ratio of GH to IGF1 varies greatly in different individuals but most external sources of GH convert around 4-6mcg of IGF per one I.U. of GH. IGF-1 acts on several different tissues to enhance growth. IGF1 belongs in the 'superfamily' of substances known as 'growth factors,' along with epidermal (skin), transforming; platelet derived fibroblast, nerve, and ciliary neurotrophic growth factors. None of the other factors have any bearing on exoskeletal tissue incidentally however These agents all have in common the ability to stimulate cell division, known as mitogenesis, and cell differentiation. Meaning That In the case of IGF1 which does act on muscle tissue it will initiate the growth of new muscle fibers, and subsequently new receptors for testosterone. Users have unanimously concluded that it enhances cycles of steroids significantly. They also seem to be adamant about its ability to reduce fat and improve vascularity a great deal.
The IGF1 Hype
There is a considerable amount of hype surrounding IGF1. Every one is blaming the distended bellies of modern Bodybuilders on it. Also the freaky proportions that old bodybuilders that have been around for years are starting to attain. Anti-aging proponents are touting it as the miracle cure for every thing from Parkinson's disease to Alzheimer's. And the medical community has published numerous articles on it for its ability to cause cancer, diabetes and gigantism. While at the same time performing documented experiments on thousands of patients of muscle wasting diseases. And reporting significant turnabouts in there conditions. So what is a guy to think about IGF1 as far as athletic enhancement is concerned? Well first of all you need to know that most experiments conducted with IGF1 do not list the type of IGF used. I have written Dr. Robert Saline of the Swedish rejuvenation institute on several occasions and we have had in-depth discussions on the subject of IGF1 for physical appearance enhancement. He feels it would be unethical to prescribe IGF1 to a bodybuilder to increase muscle mass simply due to the fact that IGF1 has valid applications in the medical community, (Like I could give a rats ass about "ethical"). He can not argue that it is extremely effective as a promoter of muscle growth far beyond what androgens (steroids) alone can offer. Well fortunately in America IGF1 is not a drug (yet) and the FDA has no control over it as of now. This will change in the very near future however, Im absolutely sure of it.
How to use IGF1
Assuming that you have acquired legitimate IGF1 (R3) long chain, That's IGF1 with the binding protein added. You should take dosages ranging from 60mcg up to 120mcg per day in divided doses. One injection in the morning and again at bed time. Never exceed 120mcg in one day. IGF1 can cause serious gastrointestinal problems such as tumors intestinal swelling diarrhea and vomiting. Most IGF1 comes in a concentration of 1000mcg per ML or CC so it makes it easy to measure in an insulin syringe. 10 IU on the syringe is 100mcg. Do the math.
IGF + Insulin
If you plan on doing IGF1 with Insulin, listen closely IGF1 is not that expensive, sure you can get away with using less by including insulin in the stack, but IGF1 and Insulin together have a pro-insulin effect on your blood sugar balance. It can enhance the chances of a hypoglycemic episode ten fold. I would recommend against it for any one not ABSOLUTLY comfortable with insulin or IGF1.
Here is how insulin and IGF1 work together. Igfbp3 is the binding protein, which allows IGF1 to remain active in the system for a long enough period of time to really work its magic. IGF1 by nature has a half-life of less than 10 minutes by its self. The molecule was so small it would escape the blood stream very rapidly. This was the reason IGF1 was so "underground". It took very frequent injections at high dosages to achieve even minimal results. Aside from this reconstituting the compound required a degree in biochemistry. This short acting version was the only IGF1 known until recently IGF1 would have been administered in 100 mcg dosages 4-6 times a day. That is a hell of a lot of IGF1. That explains a lot of the distended bellies. Now with R3 long chain IGF1 and the Binding protein IGFBP3 IGF1 will last up to 6 hours in the system. By binding IGF to the IGFBP3 you make the molecule larger and it gets trapped in the blood stream until the protein is broken down and the IGF molecule escapes. You can further its life by combining Insulin with it, although I here its very risky. Insulin prevents the breakdown of IGFBP3 and leaves the IGF1 molecule roaming free in the blood stream for longer periods of time up to 12 hours as insulin levels return to normal IGFBP3 will begin to break down and the IGF1 will escape from its bound protein IGFBP3 again having a half life of less than 10 minutes.
Insulin should be taken at the normal dosage it is usually administered at minus 10% about 45 minutes prior to the IGF1 infusion. Again let me remind you this can be deadly if you don't know what you are doing. And of course do not use Insulin for the nighttime injection of IGF1 by taking it in the morning you prolong the IGF1's half life to 12 hours and then take a 6 hour injection, you should be fine. Hell if you want to eat a big bowl of rice and drink another 100g of simple carbs 45 minutes before the bed time IGF1 infusion you could spike insulin for at least a few hours of extended IGF1 activity. If your not going to be using insulin in the stack then go ahead and do the same in the morning.
What users report
Users of IGF1 have reported various results but all along the same lines, It does not appear to be dramatically less effective in any one individual (at least not to the best of my knowledge). I have a good friend who had to stop taking IGF1 due to stomach illness that was completely unrelated But he to experienced good gains from it for the 2 weeks he was on it, his dosage was 120mcg per day. One hour after the first injection he went to the gym and immediately told me about the uncontrollable pump he got from just one set.
That would indicate to me that he was experiencing some form of cell volumization. The general consensus on IGF1 seems to be that its benefits are as fallow:
Increased Pump Pumps are reported to be so severe that workouts are often cut short due to lack of ability to the muscle through the full range of motion...ouch
Gains retention is increased if IGF is used in a cycle I am not sure why, but IGF1 seems to make gains on a cycle stick with virtually no post cycle loss. Every bodybuilder I've spoken with seems to think this for some reason. Most of them use drugs like Anadrol or Dianabol with it because of the amount of size attained with these drugs. The usual draw back to these drugs is that in most users there is a post cycle "crash" that occurs, so the reasoning is to toss IGF1 into the stack and grow larger faster with out the post cycle crash blues.
Reverses testicular atrophy
Testicles if shrunken will return to "full swing" so to speak even in the middle of a cycle. If not shrunken they will not shrink during the cycle. This may explain partially why gains are kept after the cycle.
Fatigue
Users report feeling drained and tired all day. This seems to be one of the negative side effects to IGF1, it will make you sleep longer and you will require more sleep at night to feel rested for the morning. This is common with high doses of HGH and exhibited in children, whose IGF1 levels are extraordinarily high. A child needs 4 hours more sleep than an adult on average does. This may be directly or indirectly related to IGF1 levels.
Stiffness
An almost arthritic feeling is commonly associated with high levels of HGH, well IGF1 has the exact same property. IGF1 will cause your hands, fingers and knuckles to ache this is one way you can be sure you got real IGF1.
IGF-1's Side effects
Every thing has a down side. To bake a cake ya gotta brake an egg. IGF1 is no exception. The drug used in larger quantity around the 100mcg+ range will cause headaches, occasional nausea and can contribute to low blood sugar or hypoglycemia in some users. Although I have never heard of this first hand I'm sure its true.
IGF1 will attach its self to the lining of the intestine and cause atrophy of the gut. Every thing IGF1 touches will grow and you have a lot of receptors on the lining of the large intestine and inner wall of the abdominal well. This is what causes the GH gut look. You can easily avoid this by limiting your dosages and cycle lengths. IGF1 cycles should be kept to 4-6 weeks with 4-6 weeks off in-between. IGF-1 is considerably more powerful than HGH and you need to think of it along those lines as far as dosing goes. We all know what to much HGH can do over prolonged periods of usage. The Neanderthal look is definitely not going to win any shows this year. I would recommend 80 mcg a day for 4 weeks at a time you should get good results from that for a while. I don't know if you will need to up the dosage at any point, but I would think in the case of IGF1 it wouldn't matter. If 80mcg doesn't do it for ya, then bump it up to 100 You should definitely feel it at this point If not suspect the IGF1 as being fake. Beyond 120 mcg per day your asking for trouble, This compound demands as much respect as its sister amino Insulin.
Clinical Facts about IGF-1
IGF-1 is a polypeptide of 70 amino acids (7650 daltons), and is one of a number of related insulin-like growth factors present in the circulation. The molecule shows approximately 50% sequence homology with proinsulin and has a number of biological activities similar to insulin. IGF-1 is a mediator of longitudinal growth in humans or how tall you are capable of becoming. Serum IGF-1 concentrations are altered by age, nutritional status, body composition, and growth hormone secretion. A single basal IGF-1 level is useful in the assessment of short stature in children and in nutritional support studies of acutely ill patients. For the diagnosis of acromegaly, a single IGF-1 concentration is more reliable than a random hGH measurement (Oppizi, et al., 1986). IGF-1 can be used for the assessment of disease activity in acromegaly (Barkan, et al., 198.
Almost all (>95%) of serum IGF-1 circulates bound to specific IGF binding proteins (IGFBPs), of which six classes (IGFBPs 1-6) have been identified (Rudd, 1991). BP3 is thought to be the major binding protein
GREAT READ on IGF-1
(From: Basskiller)
IGF1, also known as somatomedin C, is polypeptide hormone about the same size as insulin. It is produced predominantly in the liver in response to growth hormone (GH) release from the pituitary gland. Many of the growth promoting effects of GH are due to its ability to release IGF1 from the liver. The conversion ratio of GH to IGF1 varies greatly in different individuals but most external sources of GH convert around 4-6mcg of IGF per one I.U. of GH. IGF-1 acts on several different tissues to enhance growth. IGF1 belongs in the 'superfamily' of substances known as 'growth factors,' along with epidermal (skin), transforming; platelet derived fibroblast, nerve, and ciliary neurotrophic growth factors. None of the other factors have any bearing on exoskeletal tissue incidentally however These agents all have in common the ability to stimulate cell division, known as mitogenesis, and cell differentiation. Meaning That In the case of IGF1 which does act on muscle tissue it will initiate the growth of new muscle fibers, and subsequently new receptors for testosterone. Users have unanimously concluded that it enhances cycles of steroids significantly. They also seem to be adamant about its ability to reduce fat and improve vascularity a great deal.
The IGF1 Hype
There is a considerable amount of hype surrounding IGF1. Every one is blaming the distended bellies of modern Bodybuilders on it. Also the freaky proportions that old bodybuilders that have been around for years are starting to attain. Anti-aging proponents are touting it as the miracle cure for every thing from Parkinson's disease to Alzheimer's. And the medical community has published numerous articles on it for its ability to cause cancer, diabetes and gigantism. While at the same time performing documented experiments on thousands of patients of muscle wasting diseases. And reporting significant turnabouts in there conditions. So what is a guy to think about IGF1 as far as athletic enhancement is concerned? Well first of all you need to know that most experiments conducted with IGF1 do not list the type of IGF used. I have written Dr. Robert Saline of the Swedish rejuvenation institute on several occasions and we have had in-depth discussions on the subject of IGF1 for physical appearance enhancement. He feels it would be unethical to prescribe IGF1 to a bodybuilder to increase muscle mass simply due to the fact that IGF1 has valid applications in the medical community, (Like I could give a rats ass about "ethical"). He can not argue that it is extremely effective as a promoter of muscle growth far beyond what androgens (steroids) alone can offer. Well fortunately in America IGF1 is not a drug (yet) and the FDA has no control over it as of now. This will change in the very near future however, Im absolutely sure of it.
How to use IGF1
Assuming that you have acquired legitimate IGF1 (R3) long chain, That's IGF1 with the binding protein added. You should take dosages ranging from 60mcg up to 120mcg per day in divided doses. One injection in the morning and again at bed time. Never exceed 120mcg in one day. IGF1 can cause serious gastrointestinal problems such as tumors intestinal swelling diarrhea and vomiting. Most IGF1 comes in a concentration of 1000mcg per ML or CC so it makes it easy to measure in an insulin syringe. 10 IU on the syringe is 100mcg. Do the math.
IGF + Insulin
If you plan on doing IGF1 with Insulin, listen closely IGF1 is not that expensive, sure you can get away with using less by including insulin in the stack, but IGF1 and Insulin together have a pro-insulin effect on your blood sugar balance. It can enhance the chances of a hypoglycemic episode ten fold. I would recommend against it for any one not ABSOLUTLY comfortable with insulin or IGF1.
Here is how insulin and IGF1 work together. Igfbp3 is the binding protein, which allows IGF1 to remain active in the system for a long enough period of time to really work its magic. IGF1 by nature has a half-life of less than 10 minutes by its self. The molecule was so small it would escape the blood stream very rapidly. This was the reason IGF1 was so "underground". It took very frequent injections at high dosages to achieve even minimal results. Aside from this reconstituting the compound required a degree in biochemistry. This short acting version was the only IGF1 known until recently IGF1 would have been administered in 100 mcg dosages 4-6 times a day. That is a hell of a lot of IGF1. That explains a lot of the distended bellies. Now with R3 long chain IGF1 and the Binding protein IGFBP3 IGF1 will last up to 6 hours in the system. By binding IGF to the IGFBP3 you make the molecule larger and it gets trapped in the blood stream until the protein is broken down and the IGF molecule escapes. You can further its life by combining Insulin with it, although I here its very risky. Insulin prevents the breakdown of IGFBP3 and leaves the IGF1 molecule roaming free in the blood stream for longer periods of time up to 12 hours as insulin levels return to normal IGFBP3 will begin to break down and the IGF1 will escape from its bound protein IGFBP3 again having a half life of less than 10 minutes.
Insulin should be taken at the normal dosage it is usually administered at minus 10% about 45 minutes prior to the IGF1 infusion. Again let me remind you this can be deadly if you don't know what you are doing. And of course do not use Insulin for the nighttime injection of IGF1 by taking it in the morning you prolong the IGF1's half life to 12 hours and then take a 6 hour injection, you should be fine. Hell if you want to eat a big bowl of rice and drink another 100g of simple carbs 45 minutes before the bed time IGF1 infusion you could spike insulin for at least a few hours of extended IGF1 activity. If your not going to be using insulin in the stack then go ahead and do the same in the morning.
What users report
Users of IGF1 have reported various results but all along the same lines, It does not appear to be dramatically less effective in any one individual (at least not to the best of my knowledge). I have a good friend who had to stop taking IGF1 due to stomach illness that was completely unrelated But he to experienced good gains from it for the 2 weeks he was on it, his dosage was 120mcg per day. One hour after the first injection he went to the gym and immediately told me about the uncontrollable pump he got from just one set.
That would indicate to me that he was experiencing some form of cell volumization. The general consensus on IGF1 seems to be that its benefits are as fallow:
Increased Pump Pumps are reported to be so severe that workouts are often cut short due to lack of ability to the muscle through the full range of motion...ouch
Gains retention is increased if IGF is used in a cycle I am not sure why, but IGF1 seems to make gains on a cycle stick with virtually no post cycle loss. Every bodybuilder I've spoken with seems to think this for some reason. Most of them use drugs like Anadrol or Dianabol with it because of the amount of size attained with these drugs. The usual draw back to these drugs is that in most users there is a post cycle "crash" that occurs, so the reasoning is to toss IGF1 into the stack and grow larger faster with out the post cycle crash blues.
Reverses testicular atrophy
Testicles if shrunken will return to "full swing" so to speak even in the middle of a cycle. If not shrunken they will not shrink during the cycle. This may explain partially why gains are kept after the cycle.
Fatigue
Users report feeling drained and tired all day. This seems to be one of the negative side effects to IGF1, it will make you sleep longer and you will require more sleep at night to feel rested for the morning. This is common with high doses of HGH and exhibited in children, whose IGF1 levels are extraordinarily high. A child needs 4 hours more sleep than an adult on average does. This may be directly or indirectly related to IGF1 levels.
Stiffness
An almost arthritic feeling is commonly associated with high levels of HGH, well IGF1 has the exact same property. IGF1 will cause your hands, fingers and knuckles to ache this is one way you can be sure you got real IGF1.
IGF-1's Side effects
Every thing has a down side. To bake a cake ya gotta brake an egg. IGF1 is no exception. The drug used in larger quantity around the 100mcg+ range will cause headaches, occasional nausea and can contribute to low blood sugar or hypoglycemia in some users. Although I have never heard of this first hand I'm sure its true.
IGF1 will attach its self to the lining of the intestine and cause atrophy of the gut. Every thing IGF1 touches will grow and you have a lot of receptors on the lining of the large intestine and inner wall of the abdominal well. This is what causes the GH gut look. You can easily avoid this by limiting your dosages and cycle lengths. IGF1 cycles should be kept to 4-6 weeks with 4-6 weeks off in-between. IGF-1 is considerably more powerful than HGH and you need to think of it along those lines as far as dosing goes. We all know what to much HGH can do over prolonged periods of usage. The Neanderthal look is definitely not going to win any shows this year. I would recommend 80 mcg a day for 4 weeks at a time you should get good results from that for a while. I don't know if you will need to up the dosage at any point, but I would think in the case of IGF1 it wouldn't matter. If 80mcg doesn't do it for ya, then bump it up to 100 You should definitely feel it at this point If not suspect the IGF1 as being fake. Beyond 120 mcg per day your asking for trouble, This compound demands as much respect as its sister amino Insulin.
Clinical Facts about IGF-1
IGF-1 is a polypeptide of 70 amino acids (7650 daltons), and is one of a number of related insulin-like growth factors present in the circulation. The molecule shows approximately 50% sequence homology with proinsulin and has a number of biological activities similar to insulin. IGF-1 is a mediator of longitudinal growth in humans or how tall you are capable of becoming. Serum IGF-1 concentrations are altered by age, nutritional status, body composition, and growth hormone secretion. A single basal IGF-1 level is useful in the assessment of short stature in children and in nutritional support studies of acutely ill patients. For the diagnosis of acromegaly, a single IGF-1 concentration is more reliable than a random hGH measurement (Oppizi, et al., 1986). IGF-1 can be used for the assessment of disease activity in acromegaly (Barkan, et al., 198.
Almost all (>95%) of serum IGF-1 circulates bound to specific IGF binding proteins (IGFBPs), of which six classes (IGFBPs 1-6) have been identified (Rudd, 1991). BP3 is thought to be the major binding protein
Sphinx
Ex-Bluelighter
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5alphareductase said:
I got the PGE1 as a raw powder from a prostaglandin manufacturer. As did I with the IGF-1, Lidocaine, and PGF2a.
Im not sure on the exact name of the forearm muscle I was injecting into, but its the one that sticks out near ur elbow when you curl ur wrist back.
The combo product works wonders for both calves and forearms... the hardest to target muscles!! But painful indeed, which is why Lidocaine was an awesome combo. Infact its so awesome, I may just turn the entire combination package into a local-growth kit
5alphareductase
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From the description it sounds like the extensor carpi ulnaris although it is really hard to pin point a forearm muscle with just a description since they are small (usually) and there are so many of them.
What kind of concentrations did you use for the site injection mix.
What kind of concentrations did you use for the site injection mix.
Sphinx
Ex-Bluelighter
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per injection, I started at the following dosages...
5mg PGF2a
15mcg PGE1
75mcg IGF-1 (not long R3!)
1cc of Lidocaine (forgot the concentration)
Im not so sure on what dosages I ended up at when stopping, but the PGF2a and PGE1 were the variables I tweaked the most.
5mg PGF2a
15mcg PGE1
75mcg IGF-1 (not long R3!)
1cc of Lidocaine (forgot the concentration)
Im not so sure on what dosages I ended up at when stopping, but the PGF2a and PGE1 were the variables I tweaked the most.
Sphinx
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2002
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Oh and the above mentioned was with my calves, I sliced it in half for the forearms, but I worked up to around just over what I mentioned for my calves, in my forearms. If it wasnt for the lidocaine, I for surely would have been in immense pain... the lidocaine REALLY helps press the dosage limits. Also, perhaps taking an NSAID would help with the prostaglandin pain.
5alphareductase
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But also NSAIDS really interfer with what prostaglandins do, as prostaglandins cause inflammation and this is one mechanism by NSAIDS work (reducing prostaglandin synthesis and probably usuage). I would skip the NSAID, especially asprin.
5alphareductase
Bluelighter
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Many of the hundreds of prostaglandins can be bought from research companies. They arent controlled substances so you dont have to have DEA form 22 to order them or anything. The trouble is finding a company that will sell them without a company letterhead (which is easy to fake). The two biggest companies, sigma and fisher, also require about a billion references so skip them totally. I have found that the smaller companies who actually sell chemicals legally are much easier to order from than bigger ones.
If you have a good doc connection to, pge1 comes as an injectable erection drug called caverject, although it is expensive.
I dont know the exact mechanism as to which pgf-2a can cause site growth, as it has never been researched from what I know, but I think that the inflammation is part of the growth process that pgf-2a induces.
If you have a good doc connection to, pge1 comes as an injectable erection drug called caverject, although it is expensive.
I dont know the exact mechanism as to which pgf-2a can cause site growth, as it has never been researched from what I know, but I think that the inflammation is part of the growth process that pgf-2a induces.