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If Jesus died for our sins...

Gnostic Bishop said:
, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

. . .

There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.


Regards
DL
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This is why I and my local church parted company. I refused to 'let Jesus take the punishment for my sins'. For some reason they objected to that.
Also they kept telling me I was a sinner, when in fact I was a particularly innocent child. Not only me though, but everyone in their eyes was born a sinner . . . What?! A newborn baby, that barely knows it exists, is a filthy sinner?
There is tons of stuff in Christianity that makes me want to throw up, it's so screwed up. Poor Jesus. :*(
 
Shrooms00087 said:
Christ is like Job. Obedient unto death faithful all the less. His death and resurrection brought us the New Testament, where we learn of sin and how to overcome the obstacles of our mortal limitations, thus freeing us from our sins. Going to the cross willingly for his beliefs is how you practice spiritualism, submitting to the story wholly. By accepting him as your savior.
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I love the story of job. Because it shows Satan and God still arguing and discussing humanity with each other on an ongoing basis. It's like in a movie where the leader of the bad guys and the leader of the good guys are old friends. :D

I also love that it basically says God will allow suffering to come to people just to prove a point to Satan.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. God's such a dick.
 
JessFR said:
I love the story of job. Because it shows Satan and God still arguing and discussing humanity with each other on an ongoing basis. It's like in a movie where the leader of the bad guys and the leader of the good guys are old friends. :D

I also love that it basically says God will allow suffering to come to people just to prove a point to Satan.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. God's such a dick.
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We are lights in the darkness such as it is. Happy Christ is King Day.
 
JessFR said:
I love the story of job. Because it shows Satan and God still arguing and discussing humanity with each other on an ongoing basis. It's like in a movie where the leader of the bad guys and the leader of the good guys are old friends. :D

I also love that it basically says God will allow suffering to come to people just to prove a point to Satan.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. God's such a dick.
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Well no. When the bible starts in Genesis before Job it is stated that the world is complete. Suffering is a byproduct of our Free Will; Satan, is the "accuser" of God whose world is complete. The point being proven to Satan is that God is good and to look at the whole picture. Good vs evil and faith in God who is a "Judge". Being obedient is seen as having a saintly predisposition for faith which is the basis of a book that addresses human suffering.
 
Shrooms00087 said:
Well no. When the bible starts in Genesis before Job it is stated that the world is complete. Suffering is a byproduct of our Free Will; Satan, is the "accuser" of God whose world is complete. The point being proven to Satan is that God is good and to look at the whole picture. Good vs evil and faith in God who is a "Judge". Being obedient is seen as having a saintly predisposition for faith which is the basis of a book that addresses human suffering.
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The point being proven to Satan as I recall is that job would continue to worship him even if he had nothing. And my point is that God is a dick for letting Satan take away his family just to prove a point. As I recall it was God's suggestion in the first place.

But it's OK, in the end job gets a replacement family for the ones God let die to prove the point.
 
JessFR said:
The point being proven to Satan as I recall is that job would continue to worship him even if he had nothing. And my point is that God is a dick for letting Satan take away his family just to prove a point. As I recall it was God's suggestion in the first place.

But it's OK, in the end job gets a replacement family for the ones God let die to prove the point.
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What pyschopath loses his family and then says "Fuck the entire enterprise"? "Nothing" implies that he knew what he had. He got no family, there were no replacements, the story is grim as fuck. He lost his family and then said 'God is good'. Which takes more balls than just accepting that he lost his family because God had it out for him.
 
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draculic acid69 said:
Just bcoz he died doesn't in anyway teach anyone about sin and redemption.all it teaches us is that if you nail a guy to a cross and leave him in the sun they die.the truth about sin is they're the powerful needs and urges that everything has and it doesn't mean that they're a bad person.the truth about redemption is you don't need to redeem yourself for half the stuff the church says you need to redeem yourself for.just bcoz some cunt got nailed to the wall doesn't tell anyone the truth about anything.
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Redemption means that you acknowledge your faults and ask for forgiveness. If you forgive, you try to understand the gap between 'fault' and 'forgiveness'. That cunt is on the wall because he sold a story that accepts fault. For Theological reasons. We Fell because of our faults in dealing with Free Will.
 
Or perhaps we fell cause God made a bet that he could stick a tree in the garden and Satan said "I bet I could totally make them eat it".

You'd think Satan would know not to gamble with the omniscient.
 
JessFR said:
Or perhaps we fell cause God made a bet that he could stick a tree in the garden and Satan said "I bet I could totally make them eat it".

You'd think Satan would know not to gamble with the omniscient.
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Bitch please, "Don't drink and drive". Oops. You cannot accept limitations without someone willful breaking them. I would you pay you right now $100,000,000,000,000 that someone will drink and drive and it's their fault. You lose; we fell, but at least we have cars.
 
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That's more than the entire gdp of the world... For the love of God destroy it before we experience rampant inflation..
 
Shrooms00087 said:
What pyschopath loses his family and then says "Fuck the entire enterprise"? "Nothing" implies that he knew what he had. He got no family, there were no replacements, the story is grim as fuck. He lost his family and then said 'God is good'. Which takes more balls than just accepting that he lost his family because God had it out for him.
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Either that or it takes an incredible amount of self-delusion. So the being you worship causes your family to die and you to lose everything just to prove to his rival that you would still worship him, and you do lose everything and somehow convince yourself that this being is good despite it being his doing (for making the bet with satan in the first place)? It makes no sense.
 
Xorkoth said:
Either that or it takes an incredible amount of self-delusion. So the being you worship causes your family to die and you to lose everything just to prove to his rival that you would still worship him, and you do lose everything and somehow convince yourself that this being is good despite it being his doing (for making the bet with satan in the first place)? It makes no sense.
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1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,
2 “Who is this that darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3 Now gird up your loins like a man,
And I will ask you, and you instruct Me!
4 Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
5 Who set its measurements? Since you know.
Or who stretched the line on it?
6 On what were its bases sunk?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 “Or who enclosed the sea with doors
When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb;
9 When I made a cloud its garment
And thick darkness its swaddling band,
10 And I placed boundaries on it
And set a bolt and doors,
11 And I said, ‘Thus far you shall come, but no farther;


Again it lines up with everything I said before, the "bet" is humanity wouldn't be grateful if they had misfortune. Seeing as how anyone can kill you at any time, for no reason, it makes since that God is having a dialogue with humanity and how the world isn't perfect.

I can make it easier and be Satan and bet you the same. If God made drugs why do people overdose? Why do people die early deaths? Should I lose faith in God simply because suffering is allowed?
 
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No I lose faith in God because the old testament repeatedly shows him to be a petty, violent God unworthy of worship.

As I've said before. He'd like an abusive husband. Playing mind games and telling you it's your fault he's abusive.
 
JessFR said:
No I lose faith in God because the old testament repeatedly shows him to be a petty, violent God unworthy of worship.

As I've said before. He'd like an abusive husband. Playing mind games and telling you it's your fault he's abusive.
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Humanity may be a tad worse.
 
Perhaps. But humanity isn't threatening to condemn me to eternal suffering for not loving it enough.
 
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