iboga microdosing contraindications

[RhythmSpring]

This summer I plan to start microdosing with iboga (I did a flood dose back in february, so I have some experience with it).

Yeah, so I plan on microdosing 0.3 - 1.6 g of rootbark daily, but I like to do other drugs as well. I have on me a small variety of things I'd also like to do this summer, but I am unsure about how some of them would react with a low dose of iboga in my system.

I have:
mushrooms (probably okay)
mdma (unsure)
salvia divinorum (oral) (probably okay?)
DXM (unsure)
Kratom (unsure)
Herbal ecstasy (unsure)
nitrous oxide (probably okay)

the ingredients of the herbal ecstasy are: crocus sativus, delosperma sp., cacao, paullinia cupana, citrus aurantium.

If you know of any dangers with doing these on a subthreshold dose of iboga, let me know.

Actually, I might as well mention the perscription drugs i'll be taking as well... I have rheumatoid arthritis, and I'm taking immunosupressants to combat the inflammation. They are methotrexate and enbrel. One is a TNF-alpha inhibitor (the enbrel) and the other (methotrexate) inhibits the folic acid pathway in the body, inhibiting the growth of cells that grow rapidly. Ugh, I hate methotrexate. I may end up stopping it while I'm on the iboga if the iboga helps with my arthritis. It got rid of the inflammation when I flooded, so I am hoping microdosing will also help.

So I wonder if the methotrexate / enbrel combination will interact with the iboga as well.

Thanks.

 

[RhythmSpring]

Anyone? Ibogaine? Low-dose? Helloooooo

 

[cdin]

Hey all, i happen to have some excellent knowledge on this subject as i just finished a microdosing regime during a period of EXTREME insane abuse. I wrote a report about my findings for erowid, which they have so far declined to publish i suspect as a result of my saying things that dont agree with the typical picture of iboga being only an "addiction interrupter" my opinion is that the AA iboga types that proffer an image of the plant as a "one time thing" and after that throw people to the whims of traditional treatment and therapy are dead wrong. They have not only an addiction interrupter, also a preventer and an incredibly effective anti-depressant. I feel that this isnt more publicized due to the inherent danger in the methods i describe. Basically ive taken low dose ibo with everything imaginable, including k, mdx, L, oxycodone, cocaine, whiskey - sometimes in combination and never with negative effects while in the 10 - 20mg range. In fact - as i made my last album on the most incredible bender since the stones in the early 70s i made sure to take 10mg minimum a day. At the end of this month period, in which we LITERALLY lived like the stones, i simply stopped all drug use with little to no side effects. Like seriously a little sweaty, sleeping poorly for a few days whereas i should have been violently puking and entirely unable to manage the symptoms(i have played this game before)... This leads me to the reason for my original erowid report, which i mention several times in it next to disclaimers about how irresponsible i was - and that is that there is strong reason to believe that this sort of dosage protocol could greatly assist chronic pain sufferers, who may have a bad month and shouldnt have to suffer unduly as a result. So, to answer your question, in my personal experience, low dose ibo is perfectly safe with nearly everything and in no way appears to stress my body more than the chemical itself would. only thing i haven't tested this with is maoi inhibitors, which understandably makes me nervous as shit....

 

[RhythmSpring]

Alright!!! Someone who's microdosed! When you say 10 - 20mg range, i assume you're talking about pure ibogaine HCL. I wonder how that compares with my 0.3 - 1.5 g range of rootbark.

It's surprising that you were okay with oxy and coke on ibogaine! And mdma! IIRC, iboga has slight SSRI qualities, so how was the mdma?

It's true, iboga is so much more than an addiction interrupter. It's not just a mechanism on your body, it's so much more comprehensive than that.

I'd like to see what you wrote for erowid. I'm also interested in hearing your album.

So, did you do all the substances I mentioned in my OP while on iboga? So DXM, Salvia, Nitrous, Mushrooms, Kratom? How about DMT?

 

[cdin]

in answer

in answer to your questions - i had some hcl that i measured to that amount, and some very active root bark, now, the literature states that the rootbark is somewhere between 3/4% ibogaine, which means every gram SHOULD have between 30 - 40 mg, the material i had was VERY active(ive had experience w/hcl before) so i'd eat about a quarter to half gram, thus between 10 - 20 mg, now, i definately did nitrous, the mdma was fine and no serotonin interactions noted, dmster was great, mushrooms fine, salvia dont know but my intuition says fine, and kratom i had no use for because of all the REAL opiates. All i can say for certain is at no time did i feel in danger outside of the other shit i was doing, the ibo seemed to only enforce with calming love the feeling that i WOULD make it through the ordeal. The coke was a big surprise to me too - in fact a lot of the things i thought would be seriously terrible in combo came off super well - to sum up, we were doing a lot of coketamine shots, which as you can imagine is pretty dangerous by itself so, yeah. All cool here. I didnt save the report, but it said essentially the same things i said here. erowid is NOT about harm reduction, it's fucking fascist info control bullshit that keeps a lot of important info that doesn't conform to earth/fire etc's views down - re some instances with friends who were told their experiences "couldnt be true" because of dosage/what happened etc. well, im here to say fuck them, and it is
so, party on wayne(with ibo, naturally):D

 

[r3volved]

Very interesting to me!
Can I ask why you want to microdose daily? Or why you did?

I am also very interested in microdosing like this and am wondering if you are cultivating the root or ordering it? I have access to HCl and TA but not the bark itself. Curious as to which would even be recommended.

Does microdosing like this cause any visual or audible hallucinations? Any sickness? Have you tried larger doses since subjecting your body to daily microdoses? What time would you recommend dosing?

 

[MeDieViL]

Very interesting thread, and i'm also considering doing the same, will contribute my toughts tomorrow.

 

[cdin]

I can answer that as well - i wanted to use microdosing because i am a chronic poly-drug abuser in an industry that sincerely demands superhuman feats out of people on a regular basis - thus being afraid of chemical enhancement is sincerely against my interests. At the same time, so is abusing my body and lengthy chemical withdrawals, so on all these fronts it makes sense. furthermore, i have suffered for an extended period of time from fairly severe bi-polar/depressive and OCD disorders, both of these seem to be alleviated in an incredible fashion by regular(not exactly daily, maybe once or twice a week with one week on and one off, otherwise things start to get.... weird i assume as the noribo accumulates in your bloodstream) doses of ibo. It has been a fantastic tool and ally, at least as important as tobacco and the good ol reefer. anyhow, i hope this clears things up a bit :D

 

[RhythmSpring]

Out of curiosity, what is this industry that regularly demands superhuman feats?

 

[cdin]

the music/entertainment industry. It's pretty brutal, though i'd say the kitchen industry and perhaps long distance trucking also fit into a similair framework. It's jobs where you have to work brutally long hours(especially doing creative shit) but don't have a formal professional environment that enforces you to behave in any particular way...

 

[vecktor]

the music/entertainment industry. It's pretty brutal, though i'd say the kitchen industry and perhaps long distance trucking also fit into a similair framework. It's jobs where you have to work brutally long hours(especially doing creative shit) but don't have a formal professional environment that enforces you to behave in any particular way...

There was me thinking astronaut, particle physicist, athlete, rig worker, diver, fisherman 8)

 

[r3volved]

... furthermore, i have suffered for an extended period of time from fairly severe bi-polar/depressive and OCD disorders, both of these seem to be alleviated in an incredible fashion by regular(not exactly daily, maybe once or twice a week with one week on and one off, otherwise things start to get.... weird i assume as the noribo accumulates in your bloodstream) doses of ibo. It has been a fantastic tool and ally, at least as important as tobacco and the good ol reefer. anyhow, i hope this clears things up a bit :D

So when you say your dose was 10-20mg, is that biweekly then? Were you able to function normally while dosed (day of, day after)?

My worry is if I have to drive or really do anything on those days. I can't really take a day off completely every week.

Was there any foods or anything in particular that you avoided completely or maybe had second thought about, or bad idea looking back in hindsight during this experiment?

Sorry for all the q's
This is super intriguing to me.

 

[IamMe90]

There was me thinking astronaut, particle physicist, athlete, rig worker, diver, fisherman 8)

The particular strain may not be the same but it is laughable to try to condescend to a professional music about their workload. The mental strain is enormous, especially since there isn't the same sort of security blanket with those other (pragmatic) careers. A lil' offtopic though, I just hate to see a musician being bashed ;>

 

[thikal]

the music/entertainment industry. It's pretty brutal, though i'd say the kitchen industry and perhaps long distance trucking also fit into a similair framework. It's jobs where you have to work brutally long hours(especially doing creative shit) but don't have a formal professional environment that enforces you to behave in any particular way...

Oh shit I sweared you are in porn industry.

Anyways, your topic is still really interesting. Ibogaine is an other NDMA antagonist isn't it? (in the middle of lot of other mecanisms...)

 

[RhythmSpring]

Yeah, I was thinking of the porn industry too.

Interesting though, cuz I want to get in the music industry (not so much /entertainment, but the recording and producing industry).

IIRC, Ibogaine's effects cover 5HT2 agonism, Kappa-opoid receptor agonism (like Salvia), and SSRI properties as well. But I'm no scientist.

Still interested in your album...

 

[vecktor]

^ A lot of the evidence points towards the alpha3beta4 nicotinic receptor activity of ibogaine being important for the anti addictive effects, 18-methoxycoronaridine (18-MC) is more effective and also does not display any of the neurotoxic properties displayed by ibogaine.

whether the neurotoxicity of ibogaine is important for humans is not known, it has been discussed here before, but often the discussion gets hijacked by ibogaine zealots

so before dosing for long periods with iboga and ibogaine or using high doses for short periods it is worth considering the potential damage it is doing to the Purkinje cells. The neurotoxicity appears to be species dependent and it really isn't known if it is a problem in primates . My gut instinct is in any case a low dose for longer periods of time is going to be safer than a high short term dose regime.

ibogaine has also got some dangerous interactions with other drugs in particular opiates, which have killed people undergoing ibogaine therapy. FWIW there have been several deaths in treatment and the ibogaine clinics now screen out a lot of potential candidates. there appears to be some mechanism where it can cause heart arrhythmia and death. The pharmacology of ibogaine and the nor ibogaine metabolite is extremely dirty and complex.

IMHO the take home message is that ibogaine is fine if there is a purpose to using it ie quitting and therefore the risk benefit calculation works, because the risk associated with ibogaine is less than the risk of continued drug use, however taking ibogaine and continuing to use as well is just adding the risks of ibogaine but without removing the risk associated with continued drug use and therefore the risk benefit doesn't add up.

 

[cdin]

ok, so first i want to answer 3volved's questions: I found myself functioning optimally on the days i dosed, sometimes if i ate up to 40mg, i began to feel a bit like i had eaten a 1/2 a hit, but im pretty used to that so it didn't faze me at all, i would have felt absolutely comfortable driving and worked with no complications. I avoided no foods, ate hella red meat for protein and like i said, was drinking doing blow etc. - if i wasn't avoiding that shit i certainly wasn't thinking of food.


As far as the concerns vecktor voiced go: If 18-MC is more effective, i'd certainly be in to utilizing it, however i know no way of obtaining said chemical. Thus it is of limited value in treating the immediate realities of my situation. It does have dangerous interactions with opiods - when used irresponsibly. What i wanted to relay, specifically, is that at LOW doses (again, 10 - 20mg) the opiate reset effect is fairly minimal - it seemed not so much to reset tolerance as to halt its development, which allowed me to use the chemicals i needed to in a stretch without incurring a massive habit, something that may be INCREDIBLY useful to people in chronic pain management situations. Now, i fully think that anyone taking it at all should probably have the arrhythmia screening - but then again, i also put up to your consideration the sale of lambarine, a 12mg ibogaine pep pill which was commonly sold in france at the turn of the century and seems to have no connotation of being dangerous or causing death in the people taking it. But vecktor overall is right - it is a risk calculation, in my particular situation it was "OMG, im doing some shit totally beyond the pall of normal human behavior, the end result of which may be completely unmanageable addiction and probably death, or i could try this untested compound in a new way that i have a hunch may just do the trick(I've done a flood dose before to kick dope)" All i wanted to do is honestly relay that i feel this compound has saved my life a second time, and that continued low dose usage seems to have compounding positive effects both on my mental state and immune system. I don't know that i want to take it forever, it kindof seems to even mitigate administration of itself along with other chemicals, and as time goes on my drive to take it certainly diminishes. I'm not saying i want to take this stuff forever, im saying if i NEED it i never want to be without it I hope this reply clarifies some of my previous points, vecktor thank you for the voiced concern, i should have been more clear that i have already been screened for arrhythmia, and am familiar with ibo in general, if that wasnt the case id be much more concerned for my well being...

 

[cdin]

and i can post a link to the album in PM, i kinda said some sketch shit in here but ill let u all know when it's done, gotta get it all (c)'d before i go spreadin it around

 

[RhythmSpring]

Hopefully you'll be a bluelighter then (>50 posts), before then you can't send PMs.

 

[cdin]

oop, i better get over my lurkage then. Well, had to happen sometime i guess, i read bl every day i just never saw a thread i had an unique knowledge to contribute to, this one i just actually know about and know a lot of people don't and it's been mighty helpful and harm reductive to me. guess ill get to postin.