Bupe I relapsed to heron from years of suboxone, I need help getting back on

[Area57]

I know there are a lot of threads on this and believe me, with my OCD I have probably read them all! I was hoping that most of the PWD horror stories are the minority of people and that most people have a fine time getting back on suboxone.

if I had read what I had read now, I never would have relapsed. I want so much to get back on subs but my mind is psyching itself out!

here is my brief history.
addicted to heroin 10 years ago for six months max
prescribed suboxone. Worked great.
took suboxone for most of the past ten years. Quit it cold turkey a couple times and always felt better on it. It works well for me.

have taken several short relapses, mostly for one or two nights and then back to suboxone.

this last time got out of control and will be my last. I started heroin several months ago, and always was going to quit the next day, so I would wake up and take suboxone, and then when night came I would crack and call the dealer. Made it a couple times without calling the dealer and into the second or third day and starting to feel normal on just suboxone again and then cracked and call.

at some point I noticed I would wake up really edgy. I have always stopped heroin the night before and about 8-12 hours later taken subs while still in bed and then get up an hour later and feel better. Very small amounts, like 1mg. I did some reading and I think that the suboxone was giving me small PWD. I would be edgy for. A Few hours and then shoot up heroin. The heroin would be blocked but it took the edginess away and made me feel normal.

i don't know why this started happening other than Perhaps my heroin tolerance went up and the suboxone started stripping it off the receptors? I tried waiting a little longer in the day and taking small amounts of suboxone and it just sort of evened me out maybe.

i realized I should not be taking both together and two to two and a half weeks ago stopped suboxone and have been doing only heroin. This two plus weeks is the longest run I have been on of only heroin since when I first got addicted and I don't like it and am scared all the time, but I have been reading induction horror stories and how people get precipWD or some people said the suboxone after many vacations doesn't work for two to three days and they feel rotten until it does.

so basically I have psyched myself out and am worried suboxone won't work or won't work as well, or I will take it too soon, even though in the past I have not had a problem if I waited for mild withdrawals. The edginess I experienced in the morning I was probably only waiting eight hours, and if I was awake would probably only be starting withdrawal so that whttp://www.securityinfowatch.com/online/Retail/LP-Managers-Help-Shut-Down-a-Major-Shoplifting-Operation-in-Oregon/6356SIW379
as probably too soon.

i am and have never really been in a scene, so I don't have anyone to talk to with experience with suboxone. I need to get back on it and as quickly and comfortably as possible.

Are the stories I have read mostly from the few people that had bad experiences and most people can get back on it no problem?

Is is there any truth to the fact that if I do find it hard, or go into PWD I can inject little bits of heroin over the first few days to ease the transition?

am I just worried about nothing and should wait until I feel mild WD and take my medicine and it will be fine? I'm not sure if this is a real common problem or if it is just my OCD making me think it is. Like being a hypochondriac and reading about a sickness and thinking for sure you will get it.

i just don't like being on heroin daily, nor can I afford it, I need suboxone to work and I need to get back on it and soon before my life falls apart completely.

 

[pinpoint]

The more times you jump back and forth the harder it will become to re-stabilize on the Suboxone. As long as you wait until you are in moderate withdrawal (usually 24 hours after a dose of heroin) you shouldn't have to worry about PWD. Instead of calling your dealer perhaps you should re-dose more Suboxone thereby removing the physiological symptoms and easing the psychological ones by removing the reward of shooting heroin due to the blocking effect.

 

[Area57]

I completely agree pinpoint. I so very much regret the poor decisions I have made. I guess does anyone have any reassuring stories of success after being in a similar situation as mine? What do people mean that it gets harder to get back on? That you feel worse for the first few days?

but you still feel it and know it's working right? I understand that if you tolerance is extremely high, the bupe may not mask the WD 100% until a few days into it after your tolerance has a chance to come down to the level buprenorphene sustains you at. But you aren't in full blown WD, just being held by a less potent opiate, but one with a stronger binding affinity.

see, OCD, it sucks, I read to much and try to play dr. To myself. I should have just never read anything and stuck the pill under my tongue like probably 99% of the population does and not overanylising every little thing.

i just want my life back on track. I am extremely sorry, and humbled by the fact that I do not have control like I thought I did. It was arrogant and stupid of me.

 

[rc_benzo]

If suboxone works well for you, and you feel good on it, then stay on it. Buprenorphine is a universal drug with minimal side-effects (most of the time), tolerance to it builds slowly and it gives a decent mood lift, I would suggest you get back on the suboxone-train as soon as possible and get away from the fucked up dirty world of heroin, move out of the area your in and start a new life. It's always better to stay on Pharma Opioids than on street shit that's filled with impurities and cuts.

 

[pinpoint]

I completely agree pinpoint. I so very much regret the poor decisions I have made. I guess does anyone have any reassuring stories of success after being in a similar situation as mine? What do people mean that it gets harder to get back on? That you feel worse for the first few days?

but you still feel it and know it's working right? I understand that if you tolerance is extremely high, the buyer may not mask the WD 100% until a few days into it after your tolerance has a chance to come down to the level bumped sustains you at. But you aren't in full blown WD, just being help by a less potent opiate, but one with a stronger binding affinity.

see, OCD, it sucks, I read to much and try to play dr. To myself. I should have just never read anything and stuck the pill under my tongue like probably 99% of the population does and not overanylising every little thing.

i just want my life back on track. I am extremely sorry, and humbled by the fact that I do not have control like I thought I did. It was arrogant and stupid of me.

What I mean is that the first few days back on Suboxone after making a heroin run will not have you held 100% and therefore you'll be at an increased risk of relapse. Your major symptoms will be under control but expect some chills, yawning, lethargy and other low-level symptoms until you re-stabilize. Each time you do this though it gets harder as the psychological pull to the instant-fix of heroin becomes more & more seductive.

I personally used to do what you do until I got off everything entirely two years ago. Since then I re-started but now maintain with Kratom, but have had several 'runs' with dope.. much like the Suboxone each time I have a run it becomes a lot harder to re-stabilize on the Kratom. Not all the same receptors are being agonized at the same affinities hence the feel that 'something is missing' when you switch between different opioids.

 

[Diesel973]

I've been in pretty much the same situation, going back and forth, using both subs and dope while trying to stabilize on only suboxone. Where you're at right now, it's probably going to take about 3 or 4 days on just suboxone for you to feel okay.

Are you getting the suboxone from a doctor? If so, you might want to see if you can get some clonidine. It works well for the hot/cold flashes that you might get the first day or two. For me that's always the worst part.

On another note, have you thought of going to to detox? After using for 10 years on and off, I went for the first time a few months ago, and to be honest, it was a blast haha. They'll give you suboxone and a bunch of other stuff to make you comfortable. They feed you like a champ too. It's usually only a few days, maybe 4, and having a bunch of other people around really helps boost your mood. And when you leave, you can just continue your subs.

 

[Area57]

What exactly is detox and how do I find one? Do they take insurance? Is it government run or those private places that look really expensive? I would be open to going to one of those.

i know this part of the question has been asked many times and I was not going to mention it because I didn't want to take away from my other, more important questions, but I keep reading to wait 24 hours. That seems like a long time. I feel very bad at that point. I'm actually starting to feel pretty sniffly and twitchy when I wake up. You take your first does of suboxone based on how your feel, not necessarily off of time right? As long as you are in mild to moderate WD then you should be ok?

I was planning to take about 1mg per hour, every hour until I felt stabilized. Instead of taking half or a whole pill and having an increased risk of taking it too soon and all the remaining heroin being ripped off the receptors.

 

[siq]

I went through the same thing recently... You can jump back and forth but DONT use more than 2-3 days. If you use longer than that you feel like shit the first few days, theres no way around it.

 

[siq]

On another note, have you thought of going to to detox? After using for 10 years on and off, I went for the first time a few months ago, and to be honest, it was a blast haha. They'll give you suboxone and a bunch of other stuff to make you comfortable. They feed you like a champ too. It's usually only a few days, maybe 4, and having a bunch of other people around really helps boost your mood. And when you leave, you can just continue your subs.

They only do this at expensive uppity places... Your run of the mill detox it wont be like that.

 

[Area57]

Thanks sig. So did you successfully get back on suboxone? I've already passed the 2-3 day mark unfortunately. That's what I had done in the past, actually, I don't think i ever really went past two days. I have, since getting on suboxone years ago, mostly been on just suboxone. There have been times where I did go a night to two days of using though. I will be done with that in the future though. This relapse has scared the crap out of me.

 

[Area57]

Oh and as for detox, I did call the place they have locally, luckily with obamacare I have health insurance and I don't know what this place looks like, but they do have a medically supervised detox center. That might be a really good idea.

they told me it is 5-7 days, they encourage you to stay for that long even if you are feeling better after 3-4. They use Librium, clonedine and suboxone depending on the person I guess. It is a suboxone taper, they said they don't want you to replace one addiction with another.

i am supposed to call and do an intake interview. What do you say at these things? Just the truth? I'm not trying to be sneaky, but the receptionist said they take in about 98% of people, what did the other 2% say wrong?

it sounds scary though, on one hand I think it could really help me, on the other, what if I went into precip WD there? I guess they would know what to do. I should have more trust in doctors...

 

[siq]

Thanks sig. So did you successfully get back on suboxone? I've already passed the 2-3 day mark unfortunately. That's what I had done in the past, actually, I don't think i ever really went past two days. I have, since getting on suboxone years ago, mostly been on just suboxone. There have been times where I did go a night to two days of using though. I will be done with that in the future though. This relapse has scared the crap out of me.

Yes I've been on subs for about 3years and its worked awesome for me... And much like you, I've been sober for 90% of that time, few slips. When I do I control myself and limit the usage to two days(most of the time) I've found after 3 years of using subs thatif u can keep it to 2 days u can hop right back on ur dose with no problems. Works like a charm everytime. Like i said if u go over that (like 5-7 days) Then u will definitely feel shitty the first few days. However, it WILL even out after a couple days. All the BS you hear about subs not working anymore when u switch back and forth is just that, Bullshit.

 

[siq]

...and bout the detox, with suboxone I never really needed a detox. Reason why; I only needed a detox if i couldn't refrain from going and copping dope. and with subs i dont get that feeling...so there ya go...

 

[Area57]

Thanks siq. Good to know. My girlfriend and friends that aren't druggies all look at me like I'm crazy like "why wouldn't it work? That's what it's for right?"

 

[siq]

Thanks siq. Good to know. My girlfriend and friends that aren't druggies all look at me like I'm crazy like "why wouldn't it work? That's what it's for right?"

Bro family will never understand us drug addicts. Thats why I live in a house with other drug addicts trying to stay clean. We all understand eachother and it works...

 

[Area57]

That sounds good. It might be a good idea. I'm not sure about the detox center or not. I have never been in one or even thought about one until the poster above mentioned it. The one here sounds good though.

i think one think we do is play dr. I'm torn. Part of me says I know myself and my history better than a dr. But the other part says that dr. Works at a detox center and has probably inducted hundreds of addicts onto, or back onto suboxone and has had everyone from teenage girls with a Vicodin addiction to fifty y.o. Hardcore heroin addicts and know what he is doing.

Im too much of a pussy I guess, I read a lot of people say that about themselves but it's hard to get through it.

so,if I go to detox and take suboxone too early they probably have me ride it out, but if I'm at home I can take something on top of it and hope it goes away and try again the next day, maybe if that happens I will have some suboxone on my receptors and I can take it sooner. this actually sounds like it could work to me, it you have Tom to take small amounts of your drug to ease back onto the first couple days. But e fact that I think this sounds like a good idea makes me wonder more if I shouldn't just call the detox and trust a dr.

decisions, decisions. I'm like everybody, I want a magic time machine to go back and not have slipped up, or at least to have gotten back on suboxone right away. I want a pain free, fear free way out of this and just push a button and I am not an addict anymore. But that's not going to happen.

 

[siq]

That sounds good. It might be a good idea. I'm not sure about the detox center or not. I have never been in one or even thought about one until the poster above mentioned it. The one here sounds good though.

i think one think we do is play dr. I'm torn. Part of me says I know myself and my history better than a dr. But the other part says that dr. Works at a detox center and has probably inducted hundreds of addicts onto, or back onto suboxone and has had everyone from teenage girls with a Vicodin addiction to fifty y.o. Hardcore heroin addicts and know what he is doing.

Im too much of a pussy I guess, I read a lot of people say that about themselves but it's hard to get through it.

so,if I go to detox and take suboxone too early they probably have me ride it out, but if I'm at home I can take something on top of it and hope it goes away and try again the next day, maybe if that happens I will have some suboxone on my receptors and I can take it sooner. this actually sounds like it could work to me, it you have Tom to take small amounts of your drug to ease back onto the first couple days. But e fact that I think this sounds like a good idea makes me wonder more if I shouldn't just call the detox and trust a dr.

decisions, decisions. I'm like everybody, I want a magic time machine to go back and not have slipped up, or at least to have gotten back on suboxone right away. I want a pain free, fear free way out of this and just push a button and I am not an addict anymore. But that's not going to happen.

Bro I'm telling you, precipitated withdrawl is very rare. It hardly ever happens. AS long as u wait 24 hrs or close to it you're fine. TRust me, done it tons of times. The earliest I've ever taken it is at 12hrs and I was perfectly fine. Just dont do more than 4mg, its all u need. Just stay on subs, and if u cheat a little here and there thats fine, dont worry about it...As long as youre sober on subs for the most part nobody is gonna give u any shit.

Just make sure if u DO slip up and use, dont use for more than 3 days... or else itll suck for the first few days getting back on.

 

[Area57]

Alright, I'll listen to you, really. I let this one go on for too long. It won't happen again. I knew not to read all the horror stories about precip WD.

 

[Paws1]

I'm in the opposite, I am going to intake for subs in the morning after almost 3 years of methadone and 20 years of junk prior. Now I'd rather do gear, but everyone I know died when I was in methadone, but post acute with draws are consuming all thoughts.

 

[Area57]

God luck! You'll do great. I remember the first time I took suboxone. I was really worried going into my appointment but it worked great. You'll be successful.