Opioids I find that methadone has a terrible reputation that it doesn't deserve.

[Bomb319]

First of all, I've noticed that about 90% of the people who reflexively bash methadone fall into one of 2 categories:

1. They went on it thinking it would be a legal way to get smashed daily without ever having to worry about buying again

2. Simply aquiring the methadone every day is a huge pain in the ass, requiring a drive of 10 minutes or more.

Then there's the fact that many people on maintenance fudge their doses by overlapping (something I admit I'm guilty of).

The thing that surprises me is how so many of the people who have had bad experiences with methadone admit that it did control their drug use while they were on it, but then viciously turn on it after experiencing the horrid withdrawal it produces. We all know methadone is an opiate, but I think that a lot of people (if not most) tend to forget how horrible it is to wake up sick every day and not know how they're going to (often illegally) scrape enough money together to get high or feel normal - made so much worse by the fact that they are too sick to even want to move. Methadone can completely remove that level of hell and bring you back to some semblance of normalcy. Of course it's not going to be a bed of roses to come off of, but would you honestly rather be where you were? You might tell yourself that you would rather be, convincing yourself that having the choice to do it all over, you could simply choose not to use, knowing what you now know. That's very unrealistic, IMO. If used as prescribed, strictly as a tool to aid withdrawal and not as a panacea, and especially combined with other psychological measures like NA, methadone is probably the most valuable and successful legal tool available for shaking the heroin monkey off our backs. I mean, what else comes even close for those of us with heavy, chronic habits?

I admit it's probably a lot easier for us in Canada who can simply go get our daily witness at the closest pharmacy, and I do understand why going out of your way every day can become an enormous chore; but isn't that something to consider a little more thoroughly before going on it in the first place?

 

[Blackout2906]

I always wanted to try methadone but the daily visits to the clinic didn't appeal to me... Not to mention I'm well stabilized on suboxone now. I remember gettin high as hell on it in my early years of opiate addiction. Honestly if I ever catch a heroin habit again (which I highly doubt knowing what I know and have experienced now, but you never know) I will def go on methadone maintenance. It seems like the only thing that works for the hardest of the hard heroin addicts, which was what I used to be for five years until a caught a 1 year county bid that set me straight. Then after I got out of jail I tried a sub because I had never gotten to try bupe with zero tolerance and WOW... Always wondered how people got high off subs til I tried it myself with no tolerance. I then realized that getting a prescription for it would work out great for me in my current situation, even though I knew my tolerance would raise within a few weeks time leading to just maintenance. But I still love my sub especially with my neurontin.

 

[TheLostBoys]

I tried methadone to see what the high was like first off, & how it worked with back pain.

The high sneaks up on me......most people say it take 30 min to an hour to hit them. Its usually 10 minutes for me. Methadone is always better than nothing, but its not a high I like as much as other opiates/opiods.

I prefer morphine & levorphanol over any other opiate. I'm a light weight, so 5mgs of methadone will keep me good all day. I've take 10mgs before & to my surprise, it made me hyper.

Never tried sub's, so can't compare them......as for people giving methadone a bad name, its either you like it or you don't.

To me at least, its not a drug like morphine where I get all warm & fuzzy, then chill out & watch a good movie, or just get online & surf the net.

Methadone makes me rub my eyes a lot for some reason.....I tend to itch a lot as well, almost as much as morphine.

 

[Bomb319]

I always have huge "paradoxical stimulant" reactions from opiates, including heroin and methadone. Even with my regular MMT daily doses and with the fact that I haven't used any other opiate in at least 6 months now, I still annoy the hell out of people I happen to be with within the first 6 hours or so of my dose

 

[atreyaferret]

I never really got a high to speak of with methadone. But I don't have much experience with it either. Used it a couple times to stave off acute wds. It did work pretty decent for my pain. Although it didn't last as long as I expected it too, the analgesia. I think it's a great tool for people that use it properly, with MMT. I've seen a few people abuse it many many times and I just don't get it.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

I agree COMPLETLEY..Subs kinda have a stigma around them also, but not as bad as done'. For some reason I've noticed some people on Subs think they are better than people on methadone, such bs. I would be on Methadone myself, it's just the clinic is 90 miles away, and driving 180 miles just seemed blah. But on Subs I always go off of them for a little bit and go back to my DOC, which is why I know Methadone would be better for me...There is one in the next state that is closer, so if I transferred, but now I think my car is fucking up...anyway. When people think of done' they just think of junkies, same with Subs, it just hasn't been around as long as done' and people don't know as much about it..but Methadone works far better than Methadone or me, and as long as the said perison isn't eating hanfulls of benzo's(prescribed doses okay) it works great IMO. But just stay away from hanfull of benzo's,Somas, lyrica stuff like that, same with Subs, but anyway.

 

[adder]

The main reason why I think methadone is not a good maintenance opioid is because of its NMDA antagonism and it's pretty potent. You basically can't really feel much dissociative effects from it because your tolerance builds up from the day you start taking it at a low dose, it's also supposed to be a bit less potent than dextromethorphan according to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9783723, but imagine what would happen if you took 50-100mg of DXM every day for a few years. If you take it every day for a few years, it doesn't even matter whether you take 40mg a day or 80mg a day or more. With NMDA receptors constantly blocked your cognitive & mental abilities decrease. Another side effect is lengthening of QT interval. No opioid out of those that are most frequently used has these side effects. Don't you think that's a bit too much for a drug that you're supposed to take long-term? The reason why methadone withdrawal is so horrible is also partially due to its effects on NMDA receptors because when you stop taking it, you suffer from a rebound glutamate signalling increase which may drive you crazy. Whoever has gone through benzodiazepine withdrawal will know what it is. Add a long duration and typical opioid withdrawal symptoms and you've got a horror.

The reason why methadone is so widely used as a substitute is because it's fairly easy to produce and it's cheap, much cheaper than buprenorphine for instance. I see no problem with developing a long-acting full agonist with less recreational value than heroin that would also be much safer long-term than methadone is.

 

[atreyaferret]

I agree COMPLETLEY..Subs kinda have a stigma around them also, but not as bad as done'. For some reason I've noticed some people on Subs think they are better than people on methadone, such bs.

I've noticed the same thing. It's pretty annoying and I don't get the division there. If it's working for someone else why knock it? To each their own.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

Bupe is not that expensive I don't think...just a mont supply of Subtex is only in the 100's I think, not a crazy half a grand like Subs if you are getting 60(thank god insurance!!!) I think the expensive part is the naloxone. Not saying Bupe isn't a little bit more expensive than done' just saying I think its the freaking nalaxone they put in it, or Rekkit Bekensier are just greedy a-holes.

 

[Bomb319]

I absolutely agree about the stigma when it comes to maintenance drugs in general - even here on Bluelight where you would think people might be more sensitive to these kinds of issues. It's very bad in the general population though. There were times in the past where I became "clean" for a couple months at most. When people I knew found out about it, they would lavish me with praise and complements. Even if I slipped, the general attitude was (rightly so) forgiving and encouraging. Yet since being on methadone, the same situation results in a very stark difference in reaction. I've told people I've been clean for over six months, but when I tell them I did it by using methadone, I was met by nothing more than silence. Whether or not it actually WORKS and makes you feel better and more productive seems to be appreciated much less by the general public when they perceived that you've somehow used a "crutch". Thankfully not many ex-addicts are like this, but I do find that it takes something away from the overall experience of having quit when other people - even complete strangers - judge you as less worthy of the praise that comes along with it.

I also agree that methadone has many side effects, and as I said before it has to be taken seriously. But whether you look at rates of prolonged qt syndrome or relapse, the cold hard facts are that methadone has been in use for decades longer than anything else and has been consistently and repeatedly proven to be statistically vauable in aiding withdrawal - especially in resistant cases that would otherwise almost certainly have resulted in death. Nothing in life will ever be perfect, but sometimes you have to appreciate the best you've got.

 

[adder]

Bupe is not that expensive I don't think...just a mont supply of Subtex is only in the 100's I think, not a crazy half a grand like Subs if you are getting 60(thank god insurance!!!) I think the expensive part is the naloxone. Not saying Bupe isn't a little bit more expensive than done' just saying I think its the freaking nalaxone they put in it, or Rekkit Bekensier are just greedy a-holes.

Considering thebaine as a starting material, reagents, and catalysts, I guess the costs of producing buprenorphine and naloxone may be comparable in prices, that's just an estimate though, I'm sure there could have also been some advances recently in the synthetic routes. Anyway, the difference between them is certainly much lower than the difference between the costs of producing either and costs of producing methadone. I'm not talking about profit margins which I'm sure are ridiculously high for Suboxone and I could never afford it now if I lived in the U.S. Well, a lot of resources are wasted, so no matter how much they need to spend on the production, it's nothing compared to what is wasted forever because of the system we live in.

I also agree that methadone has many side effects, and as I said before it has to be taken seriously. But whether you look at rates of prolonged qt syndrome or relapse, the cold hard facts are that methadone has been in use for decades longer than anything else and has been consistently and repeatedly proven to be statistically vauable in aiding withdrawal - especially in resistant cases that would otherwise almost certainly have resulted in death. Nothing in life will ever be perfect, but sometimes you have to appreciate the best you've got.

I certainly agree with all of this but when I think how many things could be easily improved for the better of everyone, I'm just mad.

 

[wezface]

I think the deal with methadone is that it's not a miracle but a tool, and people expect it to fix everything. I had very good luck with methadone because I used it as a temporary tool to help me get my life back together, and I didn't stay on it for more than like two years, and I took advantage of the resources that are offered alongside it. I went to therapy and took it seriously. I got a job. I used it as prescribed. And when I felt that I was stable enough, I began my taper.
Okay, the taper sucked. I was on 130mg and I was going down 3mg/week, which was as quickly as the clinic would let me taper. I was sick constantly, but just a little. But I kept at it, kept plugging away at the other areas of my life that needed work, and I eventually came down to 10mg and jumped off from there.
six weeks of no fun. But after that, I was clean for the first time in five years. I was doing life "the right way", and it felt good.

So, yeah, it is what you make it. you can't expect it to solve all your problems or magically make you not a junkie anymore. But you can use it as a tool in your toolbox to help you move forward. Mentally, you have to be at that point where you truly want to quit. If you're not there, nothing will work for you, methadone included.

 

[LilikoiMoon]

Group #3
Those of us who obtain methadone for "short term" use in order to do a short taper off rx meds.

Never taken more than 30mg a day, taper down to 5mg...then off.

 

[StaffWriter]

I am on 60mg a day and it is time for me to taper off because my money runs out around July. I never went higher than 60mg because I didn't have to. Most of my cravings and withdrawal symptoms were alleviated at that dose. Methadone works if you let it work. You have to cooperate with it. Don't make your dose so high as to where you can't even dream of getting off of it. My big complaint with mdone would have to be WEIGHT GAIN. I've gained 20 lbs in the past 6 months on methadone. Now that sucks.

 

[Bomb319]

Group #3
Those of us who obtain methadone for "short term" use in order to do a short taper off rx meds.

Never taken more than 30mg a day, taper down to 5mg...then off.

Whatever works for you is none of my business, but I think you'll find that most people would strongly reccomend against this; methadone is very strong and addictive in it's own right and relatively minor addictions are usually much better off treated in other ways - usually bupe at the most.

 

[BangBangMaxwell's]

Subs are ten bucks a piece from any pharmacy without a prescription, they are 30 for 300 in this part of the good ole USofA (not sourcing, just fact)... Without an RX methadone is only 50 cents for every 10mg's...! That is a HUGE difference.... Plus, IME, Methadone kills pain and subs don't really do that, they just either get you high (without a tol') or take away your cravings (with a 'tol), and that's only if you qualify for the typical max dose of 24mcg's per dia.... Which, if you're a chronic pain/terminal illness patient, then this don't really work... Although, I do honesty feel that methadone has nothing on morphine as fas as pain management... Which is why I'm still suffering like a dying dog on over 100 mg's of methadone per dia... Should have expected that from something that starts with "meth"...