Kratom I don't think I should quit kratom

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I've literally taken this stuff for 4 years every single day now. I'm at about 8-15 grams per day now, and it's weird how my tolerance for this stuff is so low when I could easily handle doses of opioids like 120 milligrams of stone cold oxy.

It's just the withdrawal is so awful for kratom at this point. Not many people believe me and I don't blame them for wondering why it would be so bad.. the restless legs were constant. I mean constant--and every single second of trying to sleep was just twirling around in my bed without getting an hour of sleep. Perpetual sweating and so fatigued. I just ran to the local smoke shop to buy more instantly and get some damn sleep, lol. I don't know how I would ever get off this substance if it were made illegal. I feel like I would flock to something much worse to make the sickness go away. I don't understand how I could repeatedly go through opioid withdrawals with stronger substance and higher doses and be fine. This stuff is different. I don't think I can kick kratom.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I believe you I know how bad the withdrawal can be friend.

You only take 8-15g and have bad withdrawal? I take about 12g x1 per day now and no longer get severe withdrawal.

When does the withdrawal hit you?

Usually hit me around 24h, I've heard others here it hits them much faster

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

It hits me much later. I won't even feel it so I'll think it's not really going to happen, and then boom lol. I would say a full 24 hours after too, though. I was driving home from somewhere after I ran out not feeling anything so I felt that I would be fine without it. As soon as I tried to lay down that night it walloped me.

I have withdrawn from kratom even on suboxone (which is not known to happen). So I would take kratom on subs as well, lol.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

It hits me much later. I won't even feel it so I'll think it's not really going to happen, and then boom lol. I would say a full 24 hours after too, though. I was driving home from somewhere after I ran out not feeling anything so I felt that I would be fine without it. As soon as I tried to lay down that night it walloped me.

I have withdrawn from kratom even on suboxone (which is not known to happen). So I would take kratom on subs as well, lol.

Kratom has more than just opioid effects so the withdrawal is similar but different.

So you only take up to 15g once or twice per day?

When I was on 30g per day the withdrawal was unbearable. Starts around 20hr, very noticeable at 24hr and by 26hr I can barely function.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

After reading this thread I'm gonna wait until I have nothing on my schedule for a dew days and then I'm gonna stop taking my daily doses of kratom and see what happens. I have never NOT taken it daily in the last 2 years. I need to see what I'm in for as I have read so many different scenarios that I have to find out where I fall on this spectrum.

I have never taken any on line kratom. It's all been from the head shop or gas station so I don't know how strong it really is as I have nothing to compare it too. I do know that I take 4 grams at a time and I can still feel it. Happy, chatty, easy going. Stimulated yet relaxed...so it's doing its job for my condition. At bedtime I take between 6 and 7 grams and sleep like a baby. Just what I started taking it for. So even after 2 years of daily use it's still working for me. I take 23 grams a day...some days less. Hardly ever more than that.

Anyway, I need to find out just what I am going to feel like if I stop taking it. I won't have any comfort meds at all. Zip, nada, none. If I had access to what I used to have access to I know i could quit kratom in a heart beat. But I don't go there anymore so it would really be a cold ass turkey. Oh I have weed so it wouldn't be totally without anything for comfort.

I really need to at least do the experiment. I might be just fine. Sure I will be a little lazier, little more grumpy, probably no appetite but I need to know what's gonna happen to me physically. I'm gonna give this some thought and when , and if, I do quit and find out I will come back to this thread.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

After reading this thread I'm gonna wait until I have nothing on my schedule for a dew days and then I'm gonna stop taking my daily doses of kratom and see what happens. I have never NOT taken it daily in the last 2 years. I need to see what I'm in for as I have read so many different scenarios that I have to find out where I fall on this spectrum.

I have never taken any on line kratom. It's all been from the head shop or gas station so I don't know how strong it really is as I have nothing to compare it too. I do know that I take 4 grams at a time and I can still feel it. Happy, chatty, easy going. Stimulated yet relaxed...so it's doing its job for my condition. At bedtime I take between 6 and 7 grams and sleep like a baby. Just what I started taking it for. So even after 2 years of daily use it's still working for me. I take 23 grams a day...some days less. Hardly ever more than that.

Anyway, I need to find out just what I am going to feel like if I stop taking it. I won't have any comfort meds at all. Zip, nada, none. If I had access to what I used to have access to I know i could quit kratom in a heart beat. But I don't go there anymore so it would really be a cold ass turkey. Oh I have weed so it wouldn't be totally without anything for comfort.

I really need to at least do the experiment. I might be just fine. Sure I will be a little lazier, little more grumpy, probably no appetite but I need to know what's gonna happen to me physically. I'm gonna give this some thought and when , and if, I do quit and find out I will come back to this thread.

I encourage your experiment but I wouldn't freak yourself out too much. Kratom is easy to stop slowly, but sudden discontinuation of 23g will be noticeably uncomfortable.

One of the weirdest things about kratom dependence is that the high only lasts 2-3 hours at best but the withdrawal doesn't kick in for about 24 hours. That's very counterintuitive.

The biggest step in me limiting my use was only dosing once per day, but a big dose.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Yea there does seem to be a short 2-3 hour "high" but I think there is some residual activity going on for like another 12-16 hours and so I guess the real withdrawals don't set in fully until then.

With dosing only once a day the withdrawals don't usually get too bad (different for everyone though) you really start digging that hole though when you start chasing that 2-3 hour high. Like when you start redosing every 2,3 or 4 hours all day everyday. Then it gets bad, especially if the total daily amount is high enough. Withdrawals from that type of usage can be pretty damn brutal.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

I absolutely believe you about withdrawal, it's no joke. I was on 20-40g per day for a few years. I decided to toss all my kratom right before quarantine, the rls from CT at that dose was extremely uncomfortable to say the least. Fever dreams and rls all day and night for 4 days straight, then the worst was over with.

I was a fucking idiot and started using again, i'm now at about 15-20g a day again. But you can absolutely get off kratom, do a long taper if you have to. It took me 2 months to taper from 30g's to less than 5g's a day but I got there, it's possible, don't give up.

 

[burn out]

Kratom is easy to get off. I know what you mean about the restlessness and how hard it can seem but that actually doesn't last more than a few days. I got off kratom by taking codeine the first few nights which calmed down the restlessness. Once I stopped the codeine I went straight into PAWS, which lasted a couple of months but wasn't that bad. I mean it was hard in the sense that you can feel depressed and "off" mentally, which is always tough when it lasts for weeks or months but you just need to stick it out because it goes away after a few months. I think it took me about 55 days for the PAWS to end completely, after years of daily usage.

I didn't miss any work or have much trouble sleeping though and the codeine completely took care of the acute withdrawal. All in all I feel I got off easy and it was much simpler than quitting heroin.

 

[Picnic_Johnson]

I use 40 to 45 grams per/24hours for almost four years now. I am thankful for it every dose. I'm always striving to find some kratom that can overcome my tolerance, but I have no complaints about it.

The withdrawal is pretty bad, but any opioid withdrawal is. I just buy much more than I use, an try to keep a supply.

Same with the high, I feel it for four hours or less, but don't *need* to redose ,,It takes about 8 hours to start to feel really uncomfortable and need to dose asap.

 

[negrogesic]

Im about to quit a 30g a day habit. Only been a few months. Had a run with o-desmethyltramadol and withdrawal was inconvenient at the time so i went for kratom. This is longer than ive gone usually except for a few times but im not TOO concerned. Always sucks but it pretty short. Will probably cold turkey as tapering doesnt work well for me when it comes to kratom. Ive been dosing 5g about 6x a day. For me the withdrawal kicks in fast with kratom. After 4 hours my joints start aching and i start yawning. That said kratom isnt nearly as bad as other withdrawal syndromes. This has to do kratom's unusual g-protein biased MOR agonism, which compared to the more common beta-arrestin biased agonism seen in most other opioids, produces a more mild withdrawal syndrome. It is also what makes kratom safer than other opioids, even among other partial agonists.

Still sucks because opioid withdrawal can really suck. Say its 1/5th as bad as heroin withdrawal, that's still really bad because heroin withdrawal is horrible (I know from experience, its the only time i open eyed hallucinated from opioid withdrawal -- turns out Trainspotting was joking).

For me kratom withdrawal consists of (only):

Joint pain
Yawning
Teary eyes
Feeling cold
Lethargy
Insomnia
Anxiety
Restlessness
Loss of appetite
Depression

Pretty much in that exact order chronologically speaking. Fortunately it doesn't really exceed for the depression. That can last a couple of weeks.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I encourage your experiment but I wouldn't freak yourself out too much. Kratom is easy to stop slowly, but sudden discontinuation of 23g will be noticeably uncomfortable.

One of the weirdest things about kratom dependence is that the high only lasts 2-3 hours at best but the withdrawal doesn't kick in for about 24 hours. That's very counterintuitive.

The biggest step in me limiting my use was only dosing once per day, but a big dose.

I agree with the duration of action being just a few hours . That's why I have been doing 4-4-4-4-7 grams . Between 0700 and 1700 I do the 16 grams and then @1930 I do the 7. I started taking it 2 years ago when I quit everything ( except weed ) and was super surprised that it cured my anxiety and depression better than the opioids and benzos I was self medicating with ( and going broke for ).

I was like damn..why didn't I try this before. Super surprised that my dose is still getting me there. It's pretty much been my schedule for the last year. I thought for sure I was going to increase my dose but when I tried that awhile back I got sick. Sometimes I think I should cut back but most times I say to myself hey...I pay my bills, take care of myself and my animals, help my Mom a lot, keep a fairly clean house, and can afford the kratom without neglecting anything so why not. Small pleasures.

This kind of also answers the other thread that you made about sobriety yesterday. What do people consider being sober means? I do credit kratom for keeping me " sober " these past 2 years. I have only craved hard maybe 4 or 5 times in those 2 years and I didn't act on it. Far far cry from the way I used to be.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

@negrogesic Have you picked a date for your 30 gram quit? How are you dosing that over a 24 hour period?

Tapering never worked for me either. If I have it it's mine and I want it. Of the 10 symptoms you listed , insomnia is the one I dread. The rest I can handle. Not pleasant but doable. But the insomnia man. Hate it. I get my worst anxiety at night for some reason.

Well good luck. Keep us posted. Gonna dose any comfort meds like lyrica or benzos? smoke weed?

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I agree with the duration of action being just a few hours . That's why I have been doing 4-4-4-4-7 grams . Between 0700 and 1700 I do the 16 grams and then @1930 I do the 7. I started taking it 2 years ago when I quit everything ( except weed ) and was super surprised that it cured my anxiety and depression better than the opioids and benzos I was self medicating with ( and going broke for ).

I was like damn..why didn't I try this before. Super surprised that my dose is still getting me there. It's pretty much been my schedule for the last year. I thought for sure I was going to increase my dose but when I tried that awhile back I got sick. Sometimes I think I should cut back but most times I say to myself hey...I pay my bills, take care of myself and my animals, help my Mom a lot, keep a fairly clean house, and can afford the kratom without neglecting anything so why not. Small pleasures.

This kind of also answers the other thread that you made about sobriety yesterday. What do people consider being sober means? I do credit kratom for keeping me " sober " these past 2 years. I have only craved hard maybe 4 or 5 times in those 2 years and I didn't act on it. Far far cry from the way I used to be.

I remember someone telling me many years ago that kratom is a "less is more" type of thing and it's really true. It's a very interesting plant.

Kratom is interesting because if I told you I wasn't getting "high" from it I would be lying, but it's a very mild non narcotic type of thing. It doesn't change your behavior. You can abuse it but it has a built in limit (you get sick) so you can only take it so far.

For these reasons I do not consider it a real drug even though obviously it is.

 

[muie]

Kratom, as much you may wish this weren't true, it causes increased liver enzymes indicative of liver damage....that is if the yellowing/darkening of the skin wasn't enough of a sign to let you know something is wrong with your body! This is with extended use! Quite honestly, I don't know if it's any safer for your liver if your taking daily, increasing doses of kratom or daily increasing doses of acetaminophen containing pain medication!

As for withdrawl, I've never had kratom withdrawl but expect it to be different from traditional morphine based opioids as kratom hits many more receptors in the brain compared to traditional morphine based opioids which target the endorphin receptors in the brain. This will result in a withdrawl that may be even more severe than regular or traditional opium or opioid based chemicals.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Kratom, as much you may wish this weren't true, it causes increased liver enzymes indicative of liver damage....that is if the yellowing/darkening of the skin wasn't enough of a sign to let you know something is wrong with your body! This is with extended use! Quite honestly, I don't know if it's any safer for your liver if your taking daily, increasing doses of kratom or daily increasing doses of acetaminophen containing pain medication!

As for withdrawl, I've never had kratom withdrawl but expect it to be different from traditional morphine based opioids as kratom hits many more receptors in the brain compared to traditional morphine based opioids which target the endorphin receptors in the brain. This will result in a withdrawl that may be even more severe than regular or traditional opium or opioid based chemicals.

Iv'e considered the liver damage as I have read just about all the literature out there. And know the organ damage exists. My enzymes and blood work was good about 12 months ago but the risk is there for sure.

Since kratom has at least 40 different alkaloids I have also realized that I am hitting different receptors ( not just the MU ) as there have been times that I had similar biological responses comparable to pharms. Some times lyrica, sometimes lightweight benzos or sedatives, sometimes stimulants. It is indeed a complex plant.

 

[Xorkoth]

One of the weirdest things about kratom dependence is that the high only lasts 2-3 hours at best but the withdrawal doesn't kick in for about 24 hours. That's very counterintuitive.

Not for me, I start to get withdrawal within 4 hours of my last dose, though it doesn't get bad until later. Whenever I start using kratom it becomes an every 4-6 hours thing pretty quickly. I dose right before bed and wake up with a runny nose, watery eyes, restless legs, and anxiety/depression. In fact it gets so bad that I always feel slightly withdrawaly, even right after dosing.

 

[4meSM]

Kratom, as much you may wish this weren't true, it causes increased liver enzymes indicative of liver damage....that is if the yellowing/darkening of the skin wasn't enough of a sign to let you know something is wrong with your body! This is with extended use! Quite honestly, I don't know if it's any safer for your liver if your taking daily, increasing doses of kratom or daily increasing doses of acetaminophen containing pain medication!

This isn't entirely true, as far as I know. Liver damage only seems to happen to some people, and some of the worst cases (liver failure) have been reported days or weeks after they started taking kratom.

I've been a daily kratom user since 2016 and I've gotten my liver enzymes checked numerous times and they have always been within normal levels. I haven't experienced jaudice or darkening or the skin either.

This is on 15-25g a day. Much higher doses might pose a higher risk of side effects. But at the same time, there doesn't seem to be many reports of severe liver damage considering there are millions of kratom users (at least I haven't seen many cases).

 

[axe battler]

Yeah j was on about 15mg a day and found the withdrawal would kick in about 15 or so hours. It was 3-4 days of very intense sweating and restlessness but it was over quite quickly.
I found tolerance would kick in after a couple of tries permanently, but then it would still give me mild pleasant effects for months after as @Pumpkin2021 stated.
Weird drug but pleasant effects.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Not for me, I start to get withdrawal within 4 hours of my last dose, though it doesn't get bad until later. Whenever I start using kratom it becomes an every 4-6 hours thing pretty quickly. I dose right before bed and wake up with a runny nose, watery eyes, restless legs, and anxiety/depression. In fact it gets so bad that I always feel slightly withdrawaly, even right after dosing.

I've heard others like this, and it even makes more sense than what happens to me.

I will start craving more within 8 hours but the runny nose doesn't start until well past 20 hours.

I wonder what causes the delay/difference?

Interesting