• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

HPPD - others in Australia?

apollo

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 24, 2001
Messages
2,422
Until not long ago I genuinely believed that I was insane. Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder looks like it's the answer to my apparent insanity.
For those who don't know what it is... Here's a little info from Erowid...
Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder is a long-term visual disorder caused by taking hallucinogens. It is a recognised condition described in DSM IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) under Diagnostic Code: 292.89. The DSM is the standard manual for mental disorders used by psychologists and psychiatrists in the United States. In the DSM III, HPPD was referred to as Post Hallucinogen Perception Disorder (PHPD) and this phrase is often still used. In the 1960s and 1970s, HPPD was often included under the umbrella term "flashbacks". Although flashbacks and persisting perceptual disorders are distinct problems, the two may be associated. Unlike flashbacks, HPPD is most often characterized by continual visual interference rather than a series of acute attacks.
In mild cases, subjects occasionally experience minor visual distortions. In its most severe forms, subjects have a full range of LSD-like visual effects such as tracers, color trails, and distorted object sizes on an ongoing basis. A more complete list of symptoms can be found in the Symptoms section of this FAQ. Severe HPPD is very debilitating and subjects often seek psychiatric help.
Medically, there are three conditions which define HPPD:
Subjects experience drug-like sensory disturbances while not under the influence of any drugs.
The disturbances interfere with work, school, social settings, or other areas.
There are no other physical or mental conditions that account for the disturbances (lesions, visual epilepsy, schizophrenia, dementia, etc.)
The complete DSM IV criteria can be found in Appendix A of this FAQ. HPPD is a psychiatric diagnosis (the DSM IV is a manual for psychiatry) and is different from the more neutral medical term "palinopsia". Palinopsia is a technical term used in opthamology to describe abnormally prolonged visual afterimages, especially on moving targets or high contrast objects, or 'trails'. For more information see the section on palinopsia.
HPPD subjects experience a wide range of visual disturbances. These disturbances are the result of changes in the way that the brain processes visual information.
It is important to realize that many of these visual disturbances are present to some degree in healthy people. For example, most people will see points of light, "floaters", and other visual effects if they stare at a blue sky or brightly lit white surface for several minutes. Everybody sees shapes in clouds or see halos around lights at night. These things are normal.
What differentiates the medical condition of HPPD from normal visual 'noise' is the severity of these effects. HPPD subjects have these effects with sufficient frequency and severity that it interferes with their ability to function in their daily lives.
HPPD symptoms vary widely in severity and frequency. In mild cases, HPPD is little more then an occasional annoyance. In severe cases subjects report a wide range of the symptoms listed below on an ongoing basis.
Partial List of HPPD Symptoms[*]Afterimages - After looking at an object for a while and then looking away, a positive or negative image of the object remains visible. [*]Color Confusion - It is difficult to tell colors apart. Colors may appear to change over time. Example: a red sweater may turn yellow, or black text in a book may turn bright green. [*]Reduced Color Discrimination - Some subjects report a reduction in the brightness or fidelity of colors, sometimes making it harder to tell similar colors apart. [*]Difficulty Reading - Text may sway back and forth. Letters leave positive and negative after-images. Letters may vanish into an "alphabet soup".[*]Flashes of color - Subjects may see bright lights, flashes, or sheets of color that appear and disappear.
Geometric Patterns - Subjects see geometric patterns and shapes. Example: leaves in a tree may form patterns. [*]Halos around objects - Objects appear to have halos that extend for some distance around their edges. [*]Images within Images - Subjects see faces or other complex images where none exist. Example: a hardwood floor may appear to be made out of faces. [*]Movement - Stationary objects appear to sway back and forth or slide across the floor. This is most common in the peripheral vision. [*]Size Distortions - Objects temporarily seem to be smaller or larger then they actually are and then return to their normal sizes. [*]Static - Subjects see static over monochrome surfaces. This is especially noticeable at night. Example: in a totally dark room it may look like there is a TV set turned on broadcasting static.
It's also very rare...
6. How common is HPPD?
No large-scale studies have been done so there is no accurate answer to this. Also, even the little research which has been done has not been reproduced and verified by unrelated labs. It is likely that HPPD is under-reported because so few people in the medical community know what it is. Severe HPPD seems to be very rare although Dr. Abraham estimates the number may be as high as 1-5% of LSD users. This is his best guess based on his research experiences and the small studies which have been done, but the epedemiological studies to verify this have not been attempted.
Based on anecdotal reports to Erowid, it seems unlikely that as high as 5% of those who have ever used LSD would have clinically-significant symptoms reaching the level of HPPD. While it is very likely Erowid's sample is biased, the 1-5% number cited by Abraham likely include sub-clinical (meaning not life-disrupting) levels of lasting visual effects. It is impossible, in Erowid's opinion, that 1 in 20 people who have ever taken LSD meet the DSM-IV criteria for HPPD.
Guesses about the prevelance of all sub clinical (non life disrupting) visual disturbances in psychedelic users are much higher. Unfortunately because there have been no large-scale studies, these estimates should not be considered reliable. Numbers vary widely and range from 5%-75% of all psychedelic users. Dr. Abraham estimates this number at 40%. Some references suggest that as many as "30 to 60% of heavy users experience [visual changes] in some form or another." (Buzzed first edition, pg 78. Kuhn, Swartzwelder, Wilson 199 8)
Some studies have shown that HPPD-free LSD users may experience measurable ongoing visual disturbances. These users seem to be unaware of these changes, but the medical definition of HPPD also does not include anyone for whom the changes do not disrupt their life. See here for more information.
This post isn't for the sake of whinging about it, nor describing what it's like... That belongs in the Dark Side. I've posted here as I need regional responses...
There's very few specialists in Australia who deal with HPPD. Of those listed symptoms, 8 are very prominent in my day to day life. I'd like to know if anyone else in Australia has this condition, and if there is an existing support group anywhere locally. I'm looking to start one, however first I've got to confirm there isn't, and find others who are interested as clearly to have a productive group, you need more than one person. Anyone?
[ 23 November 2002: Message edited by: apollo ]
 
Well, If nothing else, this is very interesting information. Most of my lingering effects from drug use are mainly mental, not as much visual, but are still noticible. I had previously thought this to be schizophrenia but now I'm not so sure. Who knows ;)
I'd just like to add a very big HUG and a GOOD LUCK with to apol|o with this. It sounds like a serious affliction and I wish you the best of luck in finding others and wish to commend you on thinking of starting a support group for similar suffers. I'd not ever heard of HPPD till today...
 
After I flipped out with nun chucks I suffered from about half of those symptons, and I would put it down to a mild case of HPPD. But I found that it did go away, but it did take a good couple of months.
Trick is, like it says on erowid, to not test yourself. If you have it except it and move on and before you know it you will say "hey I can see normally again... wait no it's back" But he normal vision will return.
 
I have a bit of a theory about this. I don't want to offend you apollo in any way, I honestly believe you have a problem and that it may need treatment.
Anyway, my theory is thus. I quite often have hallucinations, things from seeing colours in front of my eyes, to morphing/warping of objects through to a range of other sensual hallucinations (touch, audial etc.). I have always put this down to the fact that these things have always been there and have been happening to me, but it's not since I've taken psychadelic drugs that I've noticed it going on.
Could just be a load of crap tho :)
Apollo, good luck, all I can suggest is learn to deal with it, I reckon the more you fight it, the worse it'll get. Having said that, I don't mean you have to pretend it's not happening, and that there is support for you out there from a range of sources, not the least us here.
 
I've had a very mild form of this for the best part of my life, even before I took any hallucinogens. I mostly get the "static" thing nowdays, which just becomes very pronounced when I ingest anything psychadelic. I also see geometric or other styles of patterns in practically anything I look at for a brief while. All my visual disturbances become a lot stronger if I'm tired as well.
Seeing that I've grown up with seeing things ever so slightly off kilter, it really hasn't bothered me cause I've never seen the world in a "normal" context.
Sorry I can't offer anything else but to say that you're not alone.
[ 25 November 2002: Message edited by: Fetish Jester ]
 
Thanks for your input guys :)
I'm trying to find someone who deals with it at the moment... With little luck, but what more can I do...
:)
 
yeh i get mild symptoms like the colour change shit, trails, colourful static, objects swaying and find it hard to read long pages of text cos the words seem to jump around... But i dont think i've taken enough LSD for it to be the cause of it.
 
Yeah, I think I get some of the symtoms listed above but very lightly. They see to be more pronounced after using lsd, dmt or mushrooms. This diminishes over a week or so.

*I feel vertigo as shapes warp infront of me
*Afterimages occure
*I see paterns in trees/nature (or any ordered structure)
*I see static occasionaly at night (never during the day)
*Best one yet, the ground sometimes gets waves [like in the sea] in it that travel along. it was strange to start with because I had the urge to jump over them or I felt i would fall over! (same was experienced on lsd one time)
 
^^ Classic symptoms... Be thankful it resides so quickly :)

Cheers babydoc.
 
Old thread, but i was re-reading some stuff and thought I'd bump it.

Whilst clonidine seems to work in some, the preferred treatment is clonzepam. It controls the visuals, and a long term (6 month treatment) seems to permenantly reduce or cure the problem. The downside is that you've just got a raging benzo addiction you have to kick, and your mind is clouded the whole way through...
 
Last edited:
Glad im not the only one who suffers this, was starting to go insane thinking i was the only one, i would tell people of similiar things to whats in this thread and they would imediatley think im pulling there leg..... The symptoms have become much more apparent in me after regular use of rc analogs latley, Very Interesting about the clonidine and clonzepam.
 
I have had a number of those symptoms before I even knew of drugs. Particularly halos around objects.

After using hallucinogens for 5+ years. I have found a subtle increase in the specified symptoms. Most of which return to normality within a week. Depending on the length of time that the hallucinogen is active for.

DOB/LSD effects usually last two weeks after use.

2C-B effects usually last a few days.

DMT seems to actually help the symptoms in general... Now go figure hey! :D
 
*bump* just checking to see if anyone found an australian support group for hppd sufferers, or if anyone knows if any psychiatrists/ drug councellors from the alfred in melbourne that would be willing to help a fellow sufferer of this condition. does anyone know if this condition can affect one's memory as well?
 
I've dabbled in mushrooms and LSD less than say 10 times, however, a few of these have been with rather silly quantities. If I look at anything that remotely resembles a pattern, or certain surfaces (grass, textured walls, etc) I get movement in the form of the patterns rotating, or swelling, and the surfaces have a tendency to breathe.
 
People seem to think HPPD is a few minor tracers and a little morph out of the corner of your eye every now and then.

I doubt I had HPPD. But I was going through some sort of episode if you want to call it for around 9 months. In this time I saw things you only see on a +3 trip on a powerful psychedelic. The same goes with feelings, thoughts, sounds and atmosphere. Everything was alien.

Getting over the fear that I was going to be like that forever, and using this time to learn some things about yourself.is the only thing that will help.

Doctors will prescribe you an anti psychotic. Probably Zyprexa 10mg wafers. All they do is shut down your brain totally (pretty much anyway), so you only crave sugar and exist like a lifeless, emotionless, non-thinking person.. Yes, over time you will forget all the crazy shit you believed in and saw and what-not. But my cousin has never been the same since taking those tablets, whenver he goes off them (tapers off) he has weird fucked up body issues, like twitches, seizures and thoughts of suicide. it works like a benzo only worse i reckon. They're just not as abuseable thats why you dont hear about them much.. But yeah on anti-psyychotic meds, you're just turning off your memory basically to stop infinite possible links between every thought and visual or other sense etc. But they are hard to get off.

So yeah, believe in your self, iniate your self-healer, learn some things without fear, just know you're in a different state of consciousness temporarily. And it will pass. Stay On Track!
 
Last edited:
Splatt, actually I read that taking antipsychotics makes the HPPD worse, however taking benzos, specifically clonazepam and another drug that is not a benzo but an antihypertensive agent, called clonidine will help alleviate these symptoms.

Its funny that I read that, because I remember taking some clonidine my friend gave me a while back and I remember feeling excellent the morning after.
 
Top