Tryptamines One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste & increases absorption many factors

[cosmic charlie]

So you think it shouldn't make much difference with the DPT then because it's Hcl and already water soluble then right? Damn guess I still have to snoot the stuff...

 

[tregar]

Yes, you are correct. DPT HCL would not be taken up by the HPBCD, freebase would be different story.

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Part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
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FYI: The THH is an SRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor with significant adrenal activity at A2A thru A2C receptors, similar to mescaline in that regard), it has super weak MAOI activity (see Wikipedia on tetrahydroharmine).

I looked up the data comparing RIMA activity of THH to harmine from a lab supplier who gave the data, and they referenced THH as only having around 1/100th the RIMA strength of harmine, practically non-existent strength as a RIMA. That would mean it would take 20,000mg of THH to equal 200mg of harmine in RIMA strength. Harmine & harmaline however have significant RIMA/MAOI activity.

How to best describe THH or tetrahydroharmine:

THH alone (200 to 300mg) with open eyes = everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day, just like professor8 describes it. A study done once on the UDV found that brews with high levels of tetrahydroharmine were preferred over all other brews, they found the "dmt was not the main attraction" but actually brews high in THH, fascinating study.

With 300mg THH, closed eye dream-like Ayahuasca visions actually form with closed eyes that begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours, These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT seems to add color and brightness to the visions. The DMT also of course adds strong psychedelic alterations & activity to the journey and enhances the quality of music in combo with THH, music sounds incredible as mentioned before for several hours, especially if you keep taking the sublingual DMT around once every 1.5 hour for the next 4.5 hours.

Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 90mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least a dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.

After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! All of the experiences were +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt.

This agrees with what I read from clearlight:

Clearlight experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.

Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:

Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.

Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.

An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.

I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.

It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?

With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.

When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.

However, at this point, I have noticed that ALL the dried Hawaiian psychotria is extinct, and is no longer available. But no worries, HPBCD complexed DMT feels the void very well, and is much more potent than plain DMT which is absorbed poorly via the oral or sublingual route. Studies show HPBCD when complexed to drugs like DMT improve drug penetration x 4 factors or 400% when used sublingually or orally.

In one past journey with 30g Hawaiian psychotria, saw three beautiful naked woman dancers twirling in front of stone pillars that rotated slowly. Jungle scenes lit up by the moonlight, full of snakes and palm trees by the beach and lots of people I had known in my life in floating bubbles that were to the left and right of the scene, drifting up into the sky. Elephants from India embellished with vibrantly colored jhools (saddle cloth) and heavy jewellery and sparkling anklets. Detached female faces of breath-taking beauty with freckles. Waterfalls in the middle of the jungle.

With another session, saw barely dressed women wearing futuristic clothing and bikinis of some sort, dazzling in it's design. A spinning vortex made of blue color with closed eyes that opened up in front of me that looked like a wormhole of some sort, I travelled inside of it, and was dropped off on an island in the pacific with wooden Tikis all around the perimeter of a small culture. I saw a chalkboard full of mathematical equations and scientific discoveries drawn out. I flew like a bird for nearly a minute over what looked like Los Angeles, as I could see the homes with swimming pools and parks below me.

I've seen pyramids adorned with gold sheen, architecture of the past and future, Egyptian scenery, vast landscapes, medieval scenery, it goes on and on. Everything is brand new as if newly created. Very similar to the Ayahuasca visions encountered by Benny Shanon in "Antipodes of the Mind".

 

[cosmic charlie]

I'm gonna be trialing Freebase DMT taken sublingually after being complexed with HPBCD tommorow evening, very excited

 

[Skorpio]

interesting. so sublingual i imagine is broken down by monoamine oxidase as well, or wouldnt it not be? any why would hpbcd change that? ive never tried or read about sublingual dmt, but i know it works nasally

It would be effected less, but there is a significant pool of monoamine oxidase in the brain, also all circulating drugs hit the liver eventually. You could be potentially avoiding the intestinal and first past liver populations of monoamine oxidase.

 

[cosmic charlie]

This does work by the way, actually tried it 5 days ago sublingually but didn't post about it publicly cuz I wasn't supposed to be tripping, but now that I broke up with kitten for good it doesn't matter. It has slight burn under the tongue but like 20-30mins after taking it straight fractals appeared before my open eyes it was beautiful and I became euphoric it was similar to a highdose 4-AcO-DMT trip in many ways but shorter acting and the visuals were pretty intense.

Was on 3.5mgs of Alprazolam that day tho so it was definitely muted degree also so it will be even stronger this time and I also took afterwords same nite 2C-B, 2C-B-FLY, DOiP, aMT, DPT also vaped couple hundred mg's DMT afterwards throughout the nite...I don't fuck around

Looking forward to trying it from baseline im sure its gonna be even more powerful, slightly nervous like always before taking high doses of DMT. It's one of my favorite psychedelics. I'm going for the second trial an hour or so just eating some dinner first.

~Shadow Cat

 

[cosmic charlie]

Tonight's experiment...

150mgs of HPBCD

65mgs DMT Freebase

Mixed it all up together.

Few ml's of H20, have it under my tongue as we speak. Has a definite burn to it I set an alarm for 15mins. The other day I was so high on Xanax I didn't notice it that much, it's not unbearable tho and it didn't leave a mark behind before. Curious about what would be causing it the HPBCD or the DMT. If it's the later I'd imagine snorting the stuff to be very unpleasant. Will check back in later on and let you guys know how it went. Going a bit numb under my tongue after a few mins...

~Shadow Cat

 

[SKL]

This does work by the way, actually tried it 5 days ago sublingually but didn't post about it publicly cuz I wasn't supposed to be tripping, but now that I broke up with kitten for good it doesn't matter.

The things we do for science...

Tonight's experiment...

150mgs of HPBCD

65mgs DMT Freebase

Mixed it all up together.

Few ml's of H20, have it under my tongue as we speak. Has a definite burn to it I set an alarm for 15mins. The other day I was so high on Xanax I didn't notice it that much, it's not unbearable tho and it didn't leave a mark behind before. Curious about what would be causing it the HPBCD or the DMT. If it's the later I'd imagine snorting the stuff to be very unpleasant. Will check back in later on and let you guys know how it went. Going a bit numb under my tongue after a few mins...

~Shadow Cat

Would be curious to see you try it without the HcPBD as a control (unblinded, but still.) I have to say it is not very visually impressive. Certainly looks like some at least of the fb DMT isn't going into solution complexed or not.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I don't think DMT tastes very palatable. Don't think I ever put any in my mouth, though. I imagine it tastes like the smoke tastes. Not good.

I'd rather smoke it than hold it under my tongue.

but cool science

 

[cosmic charlie]

I mean I feel something @SKL but not as much as I hoped definitely active this way tho and euphoric. But I also took DOC/BOD two days in the past week and went on that binge so im assuming my tolerance is thru the roof right now. I have to go on break immediately have some O-PCE and DCK coming now that will be here very soon and the later I will combine with DPT/DCK and the former O-PCE/4-AcO-DMT. Kinda puzzled cause I swear that I had more effects last time but like I said I did that after not tripping for a week and I went heavy past 5 days or so. Think im gonna buy some propylene glycol and make some DMT vape carts like @Delsyd was saying in the social that would conserve my material best im thinking. I deff feel good right now but im gonna stop experimenting with this for time being I have like half gram deemsters but im getting bunch more soon so not super concerned and when that batch comes I'll try this again. But right now I think I should dissolve what I have left into PG and make a vape pen, just do it in an amber vial in hot water bath. I have to take a break tripping tho for little bit, I struggle with that tho honestly these things call me.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Tonight's experiment...

150mgs of HPBCD

65mgs DMT Freebase

Mixed it all up together.

Few ml's of H20, have it under my tongue as we speak. Has a definite burn to it I set an alarm for 15mins. The other day I was so high on Xanax I didn't notice it that much, it's not unbearable tho and it didn't leave a mark behind before. Curious about what would be causing it the HPBCD or the DMT. If it's the later I'd imagine snorting the stuff to be very unpleasant. Will check back in later on and let you guys know how it went. Going a bit numb under my tongue after a few mins...

~Shadow Cat

you're banging 65mg and didn't notice it much due to the xanax... ? what?

I must have read wrong xD what was yesterday's dose?

 

[cosmic charlie]

I don't think DMT tastes very palatable. Don't think I ever put any in my mouth, though. I imagine it tastes like the smoke tastes. Not good.

I'd rather smoke it than hold it under my tongue.

but cool science

It does not taste good for damn sure and it made my mouth go sorta numb like when I took the Ephenidine sublingually months back. I'm gonna make some vape carts and proceed forward that way and worse case scenario just use oil burners like I have been. It was a fun little experiment tho

 

[SKL]

So it doesn't work then...

 

[cosmic charlie]

you're banging 65mg and didn't notice it much due to the xanax... ? what?

I must have read wrong xD what was yesterday's dose?

No the other nite I did like 50mgs and I did feel it more than this for damn sure and had visuals and was on Xanax. Any talk of IV use was related to 4-AcO-DMT I have never shot DMT before but if I had some made synthetically I deff would. The most AcO I have ever injected was 75mgs and I had an overwhelming breakthru, would not repeat.

 

[cosmic charlie]

So it doesn't work then...

I dunno right now man maybe not, I let it sit in the water like 5 mins after that pic was taken and then held it under my tongue for 15mins and it sorta burned wasn't very pleasant. I'm kinda surprised cuz even when I have a high tolerance if I vaped a bunch of DMT like that I would have more effects than this. And that is good DMT I and others have broken thru with it.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

No the other nite I did like 50mgs and I did feel it more than this for damn sure and had visuals and was on Xanax. Any talk of IV use was related to 4-AcO-DMT I have never shot DMT before but if I had some made synthetically I deff would. The most AcO I have ever injected was 75mgs and I had an overwhelming breakthru, would not repeat.

that's crazy to me man, and you're using IV?

by smoking - 65mg was my "breakthrough" point - where I would talk to uncle fester aliens and shit

pretty much smoking 50mg or more was really fucking intense, but 65mg was my special point, my breakthrough dose. if I really wanted to push it i'd smoke 80mg

I was always smoking my own DMT extraction, pure white fluff, was very good stuff - no yellow or orange or anything.

 

[cosmic charlie]

No I vape DMT always.

I've used 4-AcO-DMT IV many times tho, which feels pretty much identical to vaped DMT.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

No I vape DMT always.

I've used 4-AcO-DMT IV many times tho, which feels pretty much identical to vaped DMT.

You know after doing a lot of DMT and then doing a lot of mushrooms I started to notice some big similarities in mushroom visuals. I'm not surprised. In fact usually when I'd look at myself in the mirror on mushrooms I would have very DMT like visuals (in a very DMT like way - not talking about my body)

Never done 4-Aco myself

 

[cosmic charlie]

I mean when you push the plunger down a few seconds later IV 4-AcO-DMT is exactly like what it feels like when you exhale your third hit of deemsters. It's really wild the last time I went way to far tho and I couldn't even navigate my apartment properly,. Considering i live in a fucking studio that is concerning, lol. It wasn't a bad trip per say bit I just didn't gain much from it in the 25-30mgs IV AcO range It's much more useful IMO. It was just my birthday and I was feeling adventurous, I was also doing speedballs the whole nite leading up to the trip Cocaine Hcl/FentaDope not the healthiest bender. Was one of the last times I used narcotics.

 

[Ismene2]

Rectal with an maoi works - as fast as smoking

 

[tregar]

Concerning the above posts, remember this only works if you add in from 25 to 35mg harmine fb AT SAME TIME under tongue as you take the 60 to 90mg HPBCD DMT sublingually, use both at the exact same time, just as the Shaman's do for strongest activity. I use 35mg harmine FB every time with the HPBCD DMT = 90 minutes of strong activity, and you can re-dose every 1.5 hour for a 4.5 hour strong experience. I also always take 300mg tetrahydroharmine orally 45 minutes before, both harmine and THH work to greatly extend the half-life of the DMT many factors over, this has been shown by Dr. Mckenna to be the case, see post #1 references.

redgreenvines said:

well you can mix me up a batch

I would love too! But since I can't just buy some HPBCD powder, dirt cheap.

Ferdinando said:

mescaline is a second

Full bodied cactus tea from 1 x 12" bridgesii or 2 x 12" medium thickness to 1 x 12" large thickness San Pedro is my absolute favorite, have done over 90 times now over many years, totally bad ass. The 250mg oral THH + 30mg on up sublingual HPBCD DMT ranks in the same, both equally VERY bad ass. I keep a trip diary over a period of many years. I've done Ayahuasca x 70 times now.

Tyrannicalrex said:

I'm about to try cactus/mesc extraction HcL more than likely. I have a couple kilos of MHRB, probably a lifetime supply, lol. I could get 36 grams of DMT from them give or take.

Tell you what, just cut the cactus down the sides (de-core it), cut into chunks, peel the skin off each chunck, and boil the pieces for 1 hour, then strain thru a strainer and drink--so easy and kicks much ass--full bodied complete spectrum. Also, so glad to hear you have a lifetime supply of MHRB.

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Part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
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Has the Mystery of the Eleusinian Mysteries been solved? by Ivan Valencic

Has the Mystery of the Eleusinian Mysteries been solved?

Has the Mystery of the Eleusinian Mysteries been solved?

www.psychedelic-library.org

hxxp://www.psychedelic-library.org/valencic.htm

For a visual high dose claviceps paspali (same fresh alkaloid profile as the fresh Mesoamerican Aztec/Mayan morning glory) ergot wine trip report prepared by LSD chemist Todd Skinner, reported in the literature: read Krystle Cole's 3 page report on page 2 post #32 of morning glory link above.

She saw "constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head."

It just so happens that the ancient Aztec and Mayan also added the fresh or dried pulverized morning glory seeds to a drink containing alcohol, they learned this would extract all the stimulating actives from the seeds:

Page 515 "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" Christian Ratsch:

The fresh or dried morning glory seeds normally were added by the Aztec and Mayan to alcoholic drinks (sugarcane liquor; c. alcohol), tepache (maize beer, chicha), and balche' (Schultes 1941, 37).

The merck index shows that (1) elymoclavine, (2) agroclavine, (3) chanoclavine & (4) penniclavine in the seeds are best soluble in alcohol (sparingly soluble in water).

(5) Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) in the seeds only survives outside the seeds in an acidic environment (example: such as cold sherry wine which is already at ph=4). LSH decomposes in ionic conditions, neutral water (plain water), when heated, or in alkaline environments. See very bottom attached illustration of how LSH decomposes to LSA unless extracted into acidic water, wine, etc.

Important new 2020 receptorome binding data just came out this year that is available for LSH or Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide found in morning glory seeds. See below:

http://www.t3db.ca/toxins/T3D3687
hxxp://www.t3db.ca/toxins/T3D3687

5-ht2a, 5-ht2b, 5-ht2c, adrenal A1A, adrenal A1B, adrenal A1D, adrenal A2A, adrenal A2B & adrenal A2C

This is important as it shows LSH binds to just about all the adrenal receptors, while LSD only binds to one of the adrenal receptors: A2A in comparison (as far as adrenal receptors are concerned). See chart below: DMT, mescaline & psilocin all bind to many of the adrenal receptors. The adrenal receptors are implicated in the perception of aesthetics, beauty.

This may explain why the semi-synthetic man-made LSD has been perceived by many to have less aesthetic appreciation than the natural entheogens: LSH, mescaline, Ayahuasca (harmine + tetrahydroharmine + harmaline) with Caapi, dmt, psilocin. It's man-made quality may be more perceptable due to it's lack of significant adrenal agonism, which is prominent with the natural entheogens.

Example: Mescaline has a rating of 4.00 at adrenal A2C (see below), 4.00 = max = off the charts, and anyone who has ever consumed cactus knows the appreciation for beauty is "thru the roof" or "over the top".

Important teamwork is going on between LSH and penniclavine in the seeds, the 2 highest alkaloids. Agroclavine and penniclavine in the seeds (metabolite of agroclavine) bind to 5-ht1a, 5-ht2a, 5-ht6, 5-ht7, adrenal A2A, A2C, A2D, and most of the dopamine receptors in comparison. See "Agroclavine & Penniclavine radioligand (receptorome) data, Planta Med. 1996 Oct; 62(5): 387-92."

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
https://journals.plos.or...71/journal.pone.0009019
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max (off the charts), 0.00=min, X.XX=receptor is hit but we don't have strength data.

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57
LSD: -A-2D = 0.00, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1A = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1B = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1D = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00

I don't know if you remember morninglory seed from long ago? He was on another forum. Here is one of his old classic posts that makes alot of sense:

morningloryseed:

Unlike most alkaloids, LSA is water soluble when it is in its natural, freebase state...the way it is found in the seeds. it is a rare, exception to a rule because by simple definition, alkaloids are very alkaline or basic when in their freebase form as they normally occur in plants. Thus, they do not dissolve well into water. Most likely, many of the other ergoline akaloids probably are not water-soluble in their freebase form and thus are not extracted from the ground seed matter when a "tea" is made. or they get dissolved into the non-polar solvent used when an A/B extract is performed and they are thrown away.

Thus, extracts have a different mix of alkaloids and that is why the trip from A/B extracts or a "tea" of m. g. seeds feels so different than that of the whole seeds. In my vast experience with eating the seeds, and taking extracts, the trip that results is not as good. And I've taken the seeds more than any other psychedelic, except LSD and marijuana. I find them much more narcotic/sedative-like in nature and the effects are really nothing like that which I get from EATING the seeds.

The fact that teas or other extracts feel very different from the trip of the whole seed has also been noted by everyone I've shared m.g. seed tea with, and is a comoon thing reported in trip reports. So this is definitely not a phenomena that I am alone in feeling. Many, many, many people IM or email me with morning glory seed questions and most of them who have tried both have also noted that extracts are not as psychedelic and nowhere near as potent as eating the whole seeds.

The seeds do cause nausea and vomiting (as many other psychedelics like ayahuasca, mescaline, ibogaine, etc.) but a purge, I feel great. Like I said, I think the seeds are one of the best psychedelics, and I have tried quite a number of different ones.

Extractions such as a simple morning glory "tea", or the more complicated A/B extraction, will give you a mixture of different LSA's than those found in the whole seeds. It is the combination of all the ergoline alkaloids in the seeds that make you trip.

The main alkaloid is the mostly sedating LA-111, but many others (up to a dozen or so) including d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (closest molecule to LSD found in nature), are known to occur in the seeds. Together, they have a synergestic efffect and produce a very different kind of experience from pure LA-111. It is (in my opinion) a great trip. One of my favorites. Of course the trip from seeds is very different from LSD. But because it is different than LSD does not mean it is not as good. I think they are both very useful. Some of my most meaningful trips have been with natural lysergic acid amides.

Example page from Merck on agroclavine (found in morning glory seeds):

agroclavine is soluble in ethanol, chloroform, pyridine, soluble in benzene and ether, very little water soluble.

From "The Alkaloids: Chemistry and Physiology", page 32:

Agroclavine is readily soluble in organic acids, agroclavine is stable to acids", wine stands as one of the sources of organic acids. Page 33 "Elymoclavine is only somewhat soluble in water"

Peter Webster states in "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, the Secrets of Eleusis" in the morning glory chapter that Chanoclavine is soluble in alcohol.

The hard data is lacking on whether the alkaloids in the seeds are in the freebase (like morninglory seed above describes) or in the salt form. Alkaloids such as mescaline and dmt are found in the salt form in the plant, and are readily water soluble. However, these half dozen alkaloids from morning glory are found within the tiny rubbery like embryo found within the seed.

To be on the safe side, extract into wine, as this will extract the alkaloids should they be in freebase form. This will give you an extract that is no different from "eating the seeds". Morninglory above is right in that the plain water extract is no where near similar to "eating the seeds" or an acidic wine extract (editor preferred).

(1) Hermes (the Lycaeum):

Saw strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are around 32 to 36 seeds to a gram. So 12 to 14 grams is 400 seeds to 500 seeds. I extract into water pre-acidified with a squirt of lemon juice. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything. I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing, all of this with nothing more than 500 seeds.

(2) Nogal (the Nook):

Yes I know of someone who tried the CWE method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffee grinder in place of a stone metate (I think that's what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form (again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin).

(4) Piper methysticum (here at BL):

Morning Glory seeds are definitely the most euphoric psychedelic I've ever taken during the onset and the first part of the peak. Not even a strong dose of MDA could compete with the euphoria I felt from 12g of Morning Glory seeds. However, the comparison of LSA alkaloids to MDA is ridiculous. The visuals from Morning Glory seeds are quite inconsistent for me. The first time I tried them, at 9g, the visuals were very dull, but the mental and physical aspects were awesome. My second time at 12g, the visuals were beyond amazing. I got the feeling of being completely in a warp through time and visuals were flying past me and unimaginable speeds. A couple of my unexperienced friends were talking about the tracers they were seeing at the same time this was happening to me. I had to laugh. With just 6g my third time, I also had some pretty amazing visuals, though they weren't nearly as mind blowing.

(5) Myself, 400 black hard fresh seeds right off vine, grown in 75% miracle grow & 25% cow manure compost: extracted with 2 shots (60ml) of fresh just opened cold sherry wine with added 10mg of DL tartaric acid powder added (auction sites or *ma*on), and stirred together in the wine really well.

DO NOT ADD MORE THAN 10mg DL tartaric acid to the 2 shots (60ml) of sherry wine...too much DL tartaric acid can upset ph balance of the body and you will feel really bad...10mg will keep ph no lower than 3.5. The wine will go from natural ph=4 down to ph=3.5, but no lower. You will need a 1mg (0.001g) electronic scale to do this, like the AWS GPR-20 20g x 0.001g scale for example. It needs to be DL tartaric acid and not just plain L tartaric acid, The d-form salt is the form LSD is active as for example, not the L-form.

You crush the seeds inbetween a paper plate with ends folded in, you hammer the plate on a concrete surface, then you add the crushed seed powder to a coffee grinder, and grind it till it is nearly a dust...then you add the dust like seed powder to the 60ml of cold sherry wine in a tall 1/2 pint jar, then you let it sit in fridge for 3 hours, with shaking & stirring once per hour.

Then at the end of 3 hour period, you decant off the top liquid from the seed debris at the bottom....filter the sherry wine liquid thru a cotton ball in a funnel which sits in a jar, change out the cotton ball when or if it clogs, I usually have to change the cotton ball out once or twice, the top of the cotton will turn black or dark brown. The cotton ball will remove ALL the nauseating debris from the sherry wine/seed mixture. You will be left with a golden clear to light brown golden liquid, this is what you drink--no nausea as all the debris has been removed!

Before you consume, always remember to keep the 2 shot sherry wine extract of the morning glory seeds cold at all times (in the fridge) as acetaldehyde boils off at room temp or 69 degree F. You don't want your LSH decomposing to LSA do you? You can freeze it too if you plan to use it at a later time.

I saw geometric patterns on the surface of everything, with closed eyes, colored vectors spun 360 degrees while traveling from left to right across visual plane. Sounds were not only amplified & music heavenly but audio hallucinations were produced, heavy euphoria component & very strong appreciation for beauty. Remember watching Scarlett Johansson interview on a small television and melting into the seat from her beauty amidst all the breath taking geometrics. Tripped hard as hell.

Note: Cold sherry cooking wine is recommended as an extraction solution since it is already at ph=4 and is 18% alcohol, and is also very cheap ($5 per bottle). It can be found in the wine isle of any grocery store, and is often on sale. It also contains 10mg acetaldehyde per each shot (30ml). A $9 wine preserver canister can be bought at Amazon which contains a gas mixture of argon, carbon dioxide & other inert gases which can be sprayed into an open bottle of sherry wine before sealing cork to preserve the wine indefinitely, otherwise the acetaldehyde in the wine converts to acetic acid over time, giving the wine a vinegar taste. The wine preserver contains enough gas to last for years of sealing many bottles.

2016 Polish morning glory study found 3x higher amounts of LSH in MG seeds direct from grower/producer vs retail:

seeds direct from growers: 1.71 LSH to 5.08 penniclavine ratio
seeds off retail racks: 0.54 LSH to 4.75 penniclavine ratio

Immediately vacuum pack and freeze freshly picked dark hard black seeds off vine to preserve potency indefinitely.

Erowid report:

400 older dried seeds is similar to a little less than one hit LSD. 400 fresh off vine is like about 2 or three hits.

dmthead420 (shroomery):

Seems this does do alot more, its alot more refined, clean, less body high all mind high.. i extracted 700 riveas into 100 ml of lemon juice , 50ml water .. that sat 9hrs in the fridge(water stayed the color of lemon juice but smelled like alkaloids) i filtered and added 100ml of sherry wine and that sat 6hours..

A buddy and i sampled 12ml of this and the effect is way different from just eating the seeds or just a simple water extract..

No body feelings AT ALL, not even the normal body buzz.. just a extreme lsd like head and abstract thoughts, better sense of understanding.... Real soon i am def going to try a large dose ..I Feel GreaT...I will no longer do it any other way.....my friend says the same.

Norman said on 16 September 2019:

Years ago I stumbled across a simple method for dosing HBWR.
Grind the seeds and cover them with white wine, let sit in the fridge for a day or so, shaking occasionally, decant, filter and drink.
No nausea no aches no vasoconstriction.
I am now off alcohol completely so I’m thinking of an alternative method short of a full on extraction.
I’m convinced that something in the wine besides water and alcohol is what makes the trip so clean. I’ve tried twelve percent water alcohol mixes in the past and still had the nasty side effects and at the same time the trip is not as strong.
I’m thinking acetaldehyde and or tartaric acid may be involved or at least a good place to start.
Any thought on what chemically may be going on?

Vecktor (advanced chemist here at BL):

Tregar, you have probably rediscovered something that has long been a curiosity, for example on the now defunct blacklight site there was TLC posted of morning glory seed extract treated with methanol, acetaldehyde-methanol or with acetaldehyde-methanol-water, the extract treated with acetaldehyde-methanol showed a clear difference in the alkaloid profile, with a shift to several new non polar spots which couldn't be identified. IIRC Erhlichs was used to develop the plates so these were indole compounds.

69ron:

I know some of you out there are apt to believe the statements above because you've failed at making LSH and those statements above help you feel better about you're failure. Don't fall victim to that kind of crap. Try it again. Find out what you did wrong. When it works, the difference is HUGE, not a tiny difference, the experience is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. SWIM knows the effects of LSA and LSD very well. He’s used them many times. He guarantees that when the reaction works, there is NO NOTICEABLE LSA left at all in the experience. It becomes almost identical to an LSD experience at low doses. Totally different from LSA.

According to Albert Hofmann (the inventor of LSD), LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde. Adducts are very simple to make. You just mix them in solution, that's all.

The effect of adding acetaldehyde is HUGE. SWIM cannot feel any leftover LSA when the process is done right. So, like I said, I think those guys don't know what they're talking about and I believe Hoffman does, and that LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde and nothing more. No complex reaction is needed to make it. You just mix the two together and LSH forms. And I believe all of the LSA forms LSH, not just a small amount of it because you cannot feel any of the effects of LSA after this is done right.

When the conversion from LSA to LSH is complete it feels COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The reason some people can't tell the difference is because their conversion failed. It doesn't always works, but when it does, the difference in effects are night and day. No one would ever think the effects of LSH are anything at all like LSA. It's that different.

fastandbulbous (chem wizard from here at bluelight):

Apparently N-(1-hydroxyethyl)lysergamide (LSH) is an adduct compound formed from lysergamide (lysergic acid amide, LSA/LAA, LA-111) and acetaldehyde. This hints towards the idea that isn't the most stable of compounds, but would be pretty easily formed by the combination of lysergamide (LSA) & acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (ie a way to get much more & better psychedelic activity from any lysergamide extracted from seed sources).

Chemist Peter Webster who spoke at the LSD symposium:

LSH is a labile adduct of ergine (LSA) and acetaldehyde.

Mid April: I am growing a small fence line of heavenly blue morning glory, so I will let you all know how my new dream experiences go this October or November when I pick them out of the pods once hard and black, then immediately freeze them. The seeds all sprouted only 1 week after planting the seeds in the 75% miracle grow mixed with 25% cow manure compost, both from big box home store. I dug a small 2 to 3" trench into ground, and filled it with the soil mix, planted one seed every few inches, 95% of them sprouted one week later after watering them daily. I feed them 1 tablespoon of miracle grow powder mixed into 1 gallon of water in watering can x once a month only. This will yield seeds of very high potency.

The application of NPK fertilizer (miracle grow) + composted cattle manure increased crop yield by 48.9% compared to NPK fertilizer alone ---> from 2017 Frontiers in Microbiology, 05 Sept 2017 "Composted Cattle Manure Increases Microbial Activity and Soil Fertility." Some users report that their plants grew three times in size once they added miracle grow soil to their existing potting soil.

As you can see, I used zinc #212 "screw eyes" from hardware section of big box store screwed into fence after drilling a tiny hole for each one, and strung fishing line inbetween the eyelits, this supports the vine, this is how I have grown for years. Train the vine horizontally on the fishing line if you want and once the vine reaches top of 5' fence, it can cross over top of fence and continue to grow or droop downwards on opposite side, for many extra feet of growth.
Steps in the morning glory extraction (see very bottom attached photo):

I would suggest doing this under low light conditions, I personally replace a lamp in room with an LED Red bulb I found at grocery store in hardware section for five dollars when normally doing this.

1. eight grams weighed out on folded over paper plate, then hammered in between plate on concrete with hammer.

2. then the hammered mush was further ground in coffee grinder.

3. mush sitting in one half pint tall jar. (these jars can be found in canning section of stores)

4. 2 oz (60ml) of cold sherry wine added to mush and transferred to fridge for 20 minutes, shook hard every 5 minutes. (Shake hard three times or every 5 minutes during the 20 minute soak)

5. after 20 minutes in fridge observe course debris at bottom.

6. after 20 minutes in fridge, then filtered thru a cotton ball in a funnel, press on cotton ball using straw when dripping stops to get all remaining light colored wine solution out.

7. observe wine solution dripping thru cotton ball, solution is light colored and free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris!

8. closeup of 1st cotton ball in funnel after filtration, it took out ALOT of dark colored debris that is nauseating to stomach and intestines.

9. closeup of first cotton ball used for filtration, super dirty black at top 1/3rd portion.

10. first cotton ball changed out half way thru process, as it clogged, then replaced with a 2nd cotton ball to filter out remaining liquid which was in the funnel.

11. The end! 1.5 oz liquid collected from starting 2.0 oz, put back into fridge until use. Heavy nutty flavor, 100 percent free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris. All the actives remain in solution while the debris has all been eliminated. Prepare for a very euphoric and lucid visual trip with deep insights...combines extremely well with other entheogens as well.

12) Wine solution when dabbed on cue tip and touched to paper plate, glows bright blue

13) Her, underground house DJ

Pics appear to be posted backwards, no matter how I re-list them, 1st photo at very right, then in sequence from right to left. Very bottom photo of screen = step #2 the coffee grinder.

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In closing: morning glory compared with HBWR:

Please keep in mind that HBWR has high levels of ergometrine, causes cramping and vasoconstriction, ergometrine levels in morning glory for comparison is very low. Also, HBWR has no history of Shamanic use, whereas morning glory seed usage goes back several hundreds of years. HBWR only has history of medicinal use. HBWR also has high levels of LSA, very sedating and not really all that psychedelic at all. But yes, all studies published after 2011 indicate that no LSH has been found yet in HBWR.

Interestingly, when a boy was found dead at the bottom of his apartment building (he jumped out, apparently this really does happen), they detected levels of LSH or Lysergic acid Hydroxyethylamide in his blood, he had also been drinking heavily and taking HBWR seeds that night. Here is the actual toxicology study:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20018470/
hxxps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20018470/

Remember, LSH is just a labile (unstable) adduct of LSA + acetaldehyde which can remain stable in acidic solutions, for example: outside the body in ph=4.0 cold fresh just opened sherry wine solution (under 70 degree F so the acetaldehyde does not boil off), and sherry is high in acetaldehyde. And you have to seal off the wine with a ten dollar wine preservation canister of inert argon gas (from *mazon with enough gas to last years of sealing) you shoot into the bottle, before placing back into the fridge, to keep the acetaldehyde from decomposing to vinegar via oxidation. Keep cold at all times. Whether this forms outside the liver as well as within is a whole nother discussion.

This is the paper that shows the alkaloid content of HBWR is vastly different from the alkaloid content of morning glory: Paulke A, Kremer C, Wunder C, Wurglics M, Schubert-Zsilavecz M, Toennes SW. Identification of legal highs—ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products. Forensic Sci Int. 2014;242:62–71.

No high levels of stimulating LSH, agroclavine, elymoclavine, chanoclavine, penniclavine found in HBWR seeds, only in morning glory seeds. A 2014 forensics paper from Paulke found no LSH in HBWR seeds, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84 percent & ergometrine (10-17 percent & rest minimal: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine.

Sandgrease: "HBWR has more of a sedative effect compared to MG."

Nogal: "HBWR is more body related while MG seeds have effects more similar to LSD."

HPBCD DMT sublingually active under tongue - Page 2 - Botanicals - Mycotopia
Pic 1: The Aztec & Mayan extracted the morning glory seeds into wine and alcoholic solutions, 2016 Polish morning glory pics.

Pic 2: Steps in the wine morning glory extraction, pics listed from end to beginning in reverse order.

Pic 3: LSA adducts

Pic 4: Left: old 1970's morning glory data, right: new 2016 Polish mg study data

Pic 5: Eleusis ruins where the sacred psychoactive entheogenic Kykeon was drunk by initiates in ancient Greece, Eleusis participants, top: LSH compared to LSD, bottom: morning glory alkaloids, right: paspalum grass infected with claviceps paspali ergot which grows on the famous Rarian plain adjacent to Eleusis contains the same alkaloid profile as the sacred Aztec & Mayan morning glory.

2016 Polish morning glory study (1).pdf 1.19MB 5 downloads