hpbcd complex to produce oral bioavailable test?

Hexagon Sun

Hexagon Sun

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Mar 29, 2010
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It works for DMT and should work for test too:

There is a new paper out indicating that a 1:1 or 2:1 mix of HPBCD (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, on auction sites and elsewhere) to DMT can be made by placing for example 30mg freebase dmt on a spoon, add 30 to 60mg of HPBCD powder on top the DMT, add around 2 to 3 drops of water from a pipette, mix it all together for 20 seconds using a toothpick, then draw up liquid with pipette, place drops under tongue and hold for 10 minutes or so, the DMT will 100% completely dissolve into the bloodstream.
Click to expand...

Tryptamines - One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste & increases absorption many factors

Update 2.17.2023: Sublingual Ayahuasca, my psychedelic of choice: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371 hxxps://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371 (change hxxp to http to link) I've actually decided to save my bridgesii only for when I go outdoors...
www.bluelight.org www.bluelight.org

Later the original paper indicates that it should work with hormones too.
 
Thanks Hexagon Sun for reading thread.

I've been lifting weights since my early 20's. I bought my 1kg tub of HPBCD from a supplier of sports supplements long ago believe it or not, dirt cheap. Back in the early 2000's I learned weight lifters were doing fast and efficient complexing of prohormones with HPBCD, just by putting the prohormone on a spoon, adding the HPBCD on top, adding drops of water and stirring it for 30 seconds and letting it melt all together, by heating up the spoon a bit. It's fast and works well too (heating of spoon and melting is not necessary I discovered unless you prefer).

Yes it works. Many studies further down in articles from Patrick Arnold, He gives multiple studies of 2, 5, and 10mg testosterone made sublingual with resulting bloodwork values in middle of the link. I don't have any values on oral test with HPBCD, but it's a possibility perhaps, but your best best is sublingual.

Ask Patrick Arnold #11 - MESO-Rx (thinksteroids.com)

Narang and Sharma mention in their 2010 sublingual paper that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral. HPBCD makes the non-water soluble DMT water soluble. It traps and delivers small molecules such as DMT extremely effectively across the mucosa membrane under the tongue, with it's high permeability (only 100 to 200 micrometers thick) and rich blood supply--shuttling the DMT directly to bloodstream.

As you can see from this sublingual viagra study, even 50 to 100mg doses can be administered under the tongue, the authors noting that less of the drug was required, and that it began working in only one half the normal time of an oral dose:

"The start of pharmacological activity after sublingual administration of sildenafil citrate in 30 patients affected by erectile dysfunction." by Siati & Franzolin 2003.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The start of pharmacological activity after sublingual administration of sildenafil citrate in 30 patients affected by erectile dysfunction - PubMed

Even though ours is a limited study, our clinical data points out that the sublingual administration of Sildenafil is useful because of the rapid onset unrelated to meals. All the patients were reported to appreciate this method of administration, particularly in the case of unplanned sexual...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
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Interesting. Any idea why it hasn't been pursued as a true alternative delivery method? I'd imagine since it is sublingual, the amount actually administered would vary which would I feel at worst make it as "bad" as the gels basically without worrying about spreading it to others like the gels. Doesn't seem to be cost prohibitive either.
 
Great questions serotonin101

I hope somebody replies to the thread (to follow up my experiments) in the psychedelics section before it is buried in eternity, this is very exciting research, it really does work well:

Tryptamines - One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste & increases absorption many factors

Update 2.17.2023: Sublingual Ayahuasca, my psychedelic of choice: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371 hxxps://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371 (change hxxp to http to link) I've actually decided to save my bridgesii only for when I go outdoors...
www.bluelight.org www.bluelight.org

A litte bit more on sublingual & nasal HPBCD complexed pharmaceuticals:

Several years ago, before "prohormones" were banned, there was a company called "Ergopharm" ran by chemist Patrick Arnold that made HPBCD complexed solutions of prohormones in a nasal spray & in a HPBCD complexed powder that was administered under tongue.

In 2001 Arnold's company introduced the prohormone 4-Androstenediol, under the marketing name 4-AD. 4-AD is a prohormone that is easily converted by the body into testosterone, and it sold well. He is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM).

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/ask-patrick-arnold-11/

I bought and used the nasal spray and it was very effective, had my testosterone level checked with a blood test at the local labcore one hour after administering the spray and it was 3,500 ng/dl ! when my normal level was 600ng/dl. Highest measured normal levels in men are around 1200 ng/dl. The blood test cost me $70.00. It had strong mental effects as well. The spray would cause the 4-ad to enter the bloodstream nasally, and convert to testosterone via enzyme activity.

Patrick Arnold also made a sublingual powder of HPBCD complexed 1-AD that could be grabbed from the bottle with a pre-measured scooper, and the powder held under tongue for around 10 minutes or so, sold just as well as the nasal spray, I tried the sublingual product he sold, and that again was effective.

Just read half way down the article above from Patrick Arnold, and you will find the 2mg, 5mg, and 10mg testosterone base complexed to HPBCD sublingual studies that worked very well indeed.
 
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tregar said:
Great questions serotonin101

I hope somebody replies to the thread (to follow up my experiments) in the psychedelics section before it is buried in eternity, this is very exciting research, it really does work well:

Tryptamines - One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste & increases absorption many factors

Update 2.17.2023: Sublingual Ayahuasca, my psychedelic of choice: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371 hxxps://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371 (change hxxp to http to link) I've actually decided to save my bridgesii only for when I go outdoors...
www.bluelight.org www.bluelight.org

A litte bit more on sublingual & nasal HPBCD complexed pharmaceuticals:

Several years ago, before "prohormones" were banned, there was a company called "Ergopharm" ran by chemist Patrick Arnold that made HPBCD complexed solutions of prohormones in a nasal spray & in a HPBCD complexed powder that was administered under tongue.

In 2001 Arnold's company introduced the prohormone 4-Androstenediol, under the marketing name 4-AD. 4-AD is a prohormone that is easily converted by the body into testosterone, and it sold well. He is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM).

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/ask-patrick-arnold-11/

I bought and used the nasal spray and it was very effective, had my testosterone level checked with a blood test at the local labcore one hour after administering the spray and it was 3,500 ng/dl ! when my normal level was 600ng/dl. Highest measured normal levels in men are around 1200 ng/dl. The blood test cost me $70.00. It had strong mental effects as well. The spray would cause the 4-ad to enter the bloodstream nasally, and convert to testosterone via enzyme activity.

Patrick Arnold also made a sublingual powder of HPBCD complexed 1-AD that could be grabbed from the bottle with a pre-measured scooper, and the powder held under tongue for around 10 minutes or so, sold just as well as the nasal spray, I tried the sublingual product he sold, and that again was effective.

Just read half way down the article above from Patrick Arnold, and you will find the 2mg, 5mg, and 10mg testosterone base complexed to HPBCD sublingual studies that worked very well indeed.
Click to expand...
Patrick Arnold is a good dude so I trust his findings.
 
Hexagon Sun, Serotonin101 & Shadow cat, 5mg of trenbolone powder (270 g/mol) can be complexed quickly with 25mg of HPBCD (1200 g/mol) and a few drops of water all mixed together to create a potent sublingual (10mg trenbolone would need 50mg of HPBCD) kept at a 1:5 ratio of trenbolone to HPBCD --> this will deliver the trenbolone directly to bloodstream to give at least 360 minutes of activity.

Even though I avoid trenbolone like the plague due to it's side effects (sleep disturbances being the worst) I feel it would be useful this way used say 3 times a week early morning, etc. I have seen many new threads where some bodybuilders who do use it are beginning to use it at very small doses, many have seen it's toxic side effects are not worth the price of using it. However, they have been saying that when used in mini-doses like this, the side effects are very minimal to non-existant.

Mini dosing: Less than 75mg a week or less, this would be very practical use for those who would love to use it in mini-amounts weekly for a short period of time, preworkout some days, etc. Remember the first underground article by Dan Ducahine from "Muscle Media 2000" where he would crush and mix a 25mg trenbolone pellet with DMSO and apply to skin? This is very similar but with near 100% efficiency instead.
 
Keep in mind--you will want to use drops of VERY HOT water to do this, example:

P.S. update 8pm -- I just took sublingual 30mg DMT complexed to 210mg HPBCD on a spoon with less than 0.25ml (only 5 drops) of VERY HOT near boiling water this time--it all dissolved into a clear solution after mashing it with end of spoon for 1 minute--great effects held under tongue for 15 minutes--sweet taste --no burn!
 
tregar said:
Keep in mind--you will want to use drops of VERY HOT water to do this, example:

P.S. update 8pm -- I just took sublingual 30mg DMT complexed to 210mg HPBCD on a spoon with less than 0.25ml (only 5 drops) of VERY HOT near boiling water this time--it all dissolved into a clear solution after mashing it with end of spoon for 1 minute--great effects held under tongue for 15 minutes--sweet taste --no burn!
Click to expand...
Dmt+sweet taste sounds like an oxymoron lmao.
 
HPBCD is itself very soluble in water (greater than 1000 mg/ml at room temperature). This increases with VERY HOT near boiling water. So now you see how I used 70mg DMT to 490mg HPBCD in 10 drops for oral use...or the 40mg DMT to 280mg HPBCD in 5 drops very hot water I used for sublingual use.

For example, if one were do an experiment to simulate oral Ayahuasca by complexing 670mg of HPBCD powder to 65mg harmine (1/3rd of an oral dose should work fine) + 40mg DMT all together on a single spoon for "under the tongue" sublingual use in order to avoid the dizziness of using say oral harmine, (along with 150 to 250mg THH taken orally 1 hour earlier which causes me no nausea or dizziness)...

...this may look like alot when laid out on spoon, but once you add between 5 and 10 drops of very hot near boiling water from a pipette taken up from a nearby coffee mug, the HPBCD shrinks into a tiny sticky clear mass as it is derived from a sugar molecule, perfect for "under the tongue" use. After 2 minutes or so of kneading and mashing all on the spoon using the end of another spoon with the drops of hot water, it forms a TRANSPARENT CLEAR solution.

P.S. I feel great next 2 days. No hangover, cactus trips are great but usually I feel a bit tired the next day, I feel no tiredness with the 200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 70mg dmt complexed to 490mg HPBCD...the trip is strong for 90 minutes, 3 hours total or so...THH leaves a great afterglow next day.
 
7.24.2022 update:

1) How to make THH or tetrahydroharmine with pics, post #13:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/
THH can be made by converting harmaline from rue seeds in 1.5 hour using vinegar, zinc dust, magnetic stirrer and 10% janitorial ammonium hydroxide from the hardware store or on-line.

2) One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste and increases absorption many factors with pics, post #42:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/page-3

3) Journal: 50 Sublingual HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time with pics, post #19:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111790-...bcd-dmt-ayahuasca-journeys-over-a-years-time/

4) LSH extract tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2

Lysergamides - Zero nausea morning glory LSH tincture based on 2022 LSH study, natural LSD

Compilation of panaeolus cyanescens experiences & combo with THH or tetrahydroharmine, like organic psilocin LSD: https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/compilation-of-panaeolus-cyanescens-experiences-combo-with-thh-or-tetrahydroharmine-like-organic-psilocin-lsd.927995/...
bluelight.org bluelight.org

 
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