How would you plan the cycle with these? Help and couple questions!

[RaoulD]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading the forum time-to-time for yrs now and finally decided to register and ask for more experienced help on the field. I'm 29 years old, 172/85 currently with not much body fat. I've ran three cycles before; firts was kinda basic test & deca with oral dbols. Second was once with Test, Masteron and Winstrol+clen (orally). Third one was much harsher I used test, tren A & E, A-bombs and even for a while trestolone or MENT. From these experiences I've learned that both tren and MENT are the BOMB. Winstrol made my joints ache all the time like they were on fire and the only thing that would help with that when even the painkillers did nothing was deca so I decided not to use Winny anymore it was worst side effects in my life much worse than tren which always given me very good results and low sides. I had big injury about 10 months back, and went to shoulder surgery like 8 months ago and finally started to get healthy over last weeks and get back to training. So my main goal is to gain back lean muscle and most importantly strength.

Anyway, I'm interested in getting as fast as possible back to where I used to be before my injury and currently got the following productsI I got on me:
-20ml Test Ena 250mg/ml (Jeralabs)
-20ml Tren A 100mg/ml (Jeralabs)
-10ml Deca 250mg/ml (Jeralabs)
-50x50mg A-bombs (Jeralabs)
-10ml Trestolone MENT 50mg/ml (Syntholan Tecnologies)
-50x1mg Anastrozole, 18x50mg clomids and 38x10mg nolvadex

So my plan is to have a 12-week cycle where I do the injections pretty much EOD. That would mean dosage of 500mg/test a week (did 750 on last cycle..), 200mg/tren a week, 250mg of Deca and 50mg of oxymethelone a day for 7 weeks plus Anastrozole every now and then. Firstly, let's add to this that I wouldn't otherwise be mixing deca with tren but its just so d*mn good for your joints when on cycle.. (If I have to get more PCT like I believe Ido, gonna get 6000 IU of hcg, 50 more clomids and 50 more nolva. That would mean that I'd also continue the cycle for around 4 more weeks..)

So to my questions:
1. How would you plan the cycle? (What AAS to start with and what to start taking and which week (A-bombs only last for 7 weeks and I plan to run trest very low dosages but still it wont last over 5 weeks..)
2. Do you think I should add anything either into the cycle (f.ex. to avoid more sides) or that would give great results without risks being much unhealthier than this already?
3. What do you think of the dosing? (I've been using all these before and bigger amounts a week but is it enough all together)
4. Do you think that amount of clomid and nolvadex is enough for the PCT or should I get more or would it be enough if I only got 6000 IU of hcg more? (I know its very low amount so would like to hear experiences, I've done PCT every time before)
5. If the PCT ain't enough like it most certainly ain't and I end up continuing the cycle for 4 more weeks using test 625mg/week, tren 250mg/week and what else do u think I should add up to that mix with those two or nothing else anymore?
6.Would you start using the MENT only after the A-bombs end so if the cycle last 12 weeks like first planned I'd be taking 7 first weeks of bombs and last 5 weeks of MENT?
7.Would it be harsh/risky for body or liver to continue using oxymethelone and/or dbol with injections after I've ran out of the orals after 7 weeks of 50mg a day of bombs?
8.Anything else that sounds wrong with this plan or any ideas how to adjust or even add something to it?

Right now my plan goes something like this:
-Injections roughly EOD
-Week 1-12 Test E 500mg/week
-Week 1-10 Deca 350mg/week
-Week 1-2 Tren A 100mg/week 3-12 200mg/week
-Week 1-7 A-bombs 350mg/week
And occasionally on Anastrozoleand clomid and nolva for PCT, but WHEN should I start injecting MENT I only plan to shoot it 25-30mg/eod so it will last for about 5 weeks.

Thanks mate if you managed to read it all the way down and thank you all in advice of the tips.

 

[Phobos]

I'm sure someone more experienced will soon pop in, but I can see a few things wrong with your plan:

• You are using too many compounds and the dosages are too high
• You are using Oxymetholone (Anadrol) at the start, then taking it off, it does not make sense to start with a powerful oral and then taking it off, you want to start low and gradually increase the dosage and/or add another compound.
  Read this sticky, it explains why: Why you should not frontload
• you are using 3 19-Nor compounds, 2 of which are very strong (Tren and Trest) and 2 of them also aromatise into Estrogen (Deca and Trest) but you do not have Cabergoline at hand to control your prolactin
• Testosterone will obviously aromatise into Estrogen too, and Anadrol also causes Estrogenic side effects.

If you must use the Tren or the Trest, It would be more reasonable to start off with only Test and Deca, then take the Deca out and add either the Tren or the Trest at the end.
Anyway, if I understand correctly, you are 172cm tall and weigh 85kg, and I think at that size you should not be needing Tren or Trest to grow.

It is better to have Cabergoline at hand when using 19 Nor compounds as they are active at the Progesterone receptor and will increase your Prolactin levels, and this can create a nasty type of gynaecomastia where your mammary glands will grow and produce milk.
Due to this double gynecomastia risk when using 19 Nor compounds, you want to keep in check both your Estrogen and your Prolactin throughout the cycle.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

hey there

all the compounds are great but your diet will really determine your gains.

but i would go with the following cycle a bit longer then yours but think a bit more safer and the gains will be better and more keepable this way

week 1-3 (25 days) 100mg oxymethelone a day
Week 1-10 test e @ 500mg a week
Week 1-10 Deca @ 250mg a week
week 11-13 tren ace 50mg eod a week
Week 11-13 ment 50mg eod
week 11-13 50mg proviron ed ( if you can get and even run it all the way up to pct.)

Then use your ancillaries as needed
1.25mg of letrozole EOD is advised to combat the conversion to 7a-methyl estradiol, so bloating is minimal. when on ment

AS for pct i cant really comment as the pct protocols has change a lot since my last time using gear but im on trt anyway so i dont worry about pct.

 

[Genetic Freak]

hey there

all the compounds are great but your diet will really determine your gains.

but i would go with the following cycle a bit longer then yours but think a bit more safer and the gains will be better and more keepable this way

week 1-3 (25 days) 100mg oxymethelone a day
Week 1-10 test e @ 500mg a week
Week 1-10 Deca @ 250mg a week
week 11-13 tren ace 50mg eod a week
Week 11-13 ment 50mg eod
week 11-13 50mg proviron ed ( if you can get and even run it all the way up to pct.)

Then use your ancillaries as needed
1.25mg of letrozole EOD is advised to combat the conversion to 7a-methyl estradiol, so bloating is minimal. when on ment

AS for pct i cant really comment as the pct protocols has change a lot since my last time using gear but im on trt anyway so i dont worry about pct.

You are advising starting on 1450mg/week with a front-load of 700mg oxymetholone..!!!!

He has said he is 85kgs..!!!!!

Am I missing something..??????

He needs Food and a decent training program and maybe 250-350mg testosterone ONLY per week..!!!!

If he can't grow on that at his weight he has seriously got something wrong....

Remember we are a harm reduction forum here, we like to leave misinformed stupidity to popular bodybuilding forums..!!

 

[Coffeeshroom]

@Genetic Freak yes i think you missed it : I don't miss anything..!!
i advised 500mg test a week ( 250mg 2x a week ) so not1450mg a week
and it wsa 100mg abomb a day for 25 days. so also 700mg
also never mentioned a frontload

my first sentence was that diet is the key

and yes i know its a harm reduction reason the cycle is structure that he doesnt have all the heavy hitters in system all at once. and rather use them beginning and end.

He asked for an idea of how to run the cycle with compounds he got and i gave him a "cycle" idea or layout that with the compounds mentioned tht i would cycle them that way.

sorry for any misunderstanding

 

[Genetic Freak]

@Genetic Freak yes i think you missed it

i advised 500mg test a week ( 250mg 2x a week ) so not1450mg a week
and it wsa 100mg abomb a day for 25 days. so also 700mg
also never mentioned a frontload

my first sentence was that diet is the key

and yes i know its a harm reduction reason the cycle is structure that he doesnt have all the heavy hitters in system all at once. and rather use them beginning and end.

He asked for an idea of how to run the cycle with compounds he got and i gave him a "cycle" idea or layout that with the compounds mentioned tht i would cycle them that way.

sorry for any misunderstanding

To quote your original text:

week 1-3 (25 days) 100mg oxymethelone a day
Week 1-10 test e @ 500mg a week
Week 1-10 Deca @ 250mg a week

By my maths that comes to: 1450mg..!!

Ramping up the dose in the first 21 is considered a front-load, which incidentally has already being covered in our stickys above titled "Why you should not frontload", I might suggest you read it..

My initial point is, as 85kg he can manage a cycle on a reduced amount than previously recommended..

Hepatotoxic oral compounds and 19-nors known to induce long term hypothalamic GnRH shutdown might not be a best option..

 

[Coffeeshroom]

@Genetic Freak we are still not on the same page.
the oxy is a kickstart like sdrol or dbols or tbol and so on
the dose of test is 500mg a week ( 250mg 2x a week ) total 500mg test a week
the dose of deca is 250mg a week ( 125mg 2x a week ) total 250mg a week
the dose of abombs is 100mg a day ( 50mg 2x a day ) total 100mg a day

So total AAS a week of injectables is 750mg total
so total AAS a week of oral is 700mg

count that together then you get your 1450mg but that is only the total for first 3 weeks because of the oral kickstart and after 25 days it will only be 750mg AAS a week which is the normal dose for bulking.

I use to compete and have a fair bit of knowledge on this but clearly the terminology change or way off doing things. But a cycle normally had its base compounds like 2-3 inj plus a kickstart oral and short acting inj at the end with another oral like winstrol, anavar,tbol or proviron to help solidify gains.

Also the reason i advised to use abombs in the beginning and the ment at the end so he isnt using 2 very toxic compounds at the same time. With the abombs he can lower it to 50mg a day but still just use it the first 3-4 weeks of your cycle.

Im clearly not as educated in AAS as you but i have some insight and if things have change since the last time i use to run cycles then im more then open to learn more and other approaches

 

[draculic acid69]

Oxymethylone is a liver cancer causing substance so I'd suggest fuking it right off.also this combo sounds like way too much

 

[Phobos]

I use to compete and have a fair bit of knowledge on this but clearly the terminology change or way off doing things. But a cycle normally had its base compounds like 2-3 inj plus a kickstart oral and short acting inj at the end with another oral like winstrol, anavar,tbol or proviron to help solidify gains.

He wanted you to read this thread: Why you should not frontload
Very informative in my opinion.

 

[RaoulD]

Okay, thanks for you all about your advices. I know it very well it's kinda rough cycle if I'm gonna go through it all (that's still debatable, may end up dropping at least MENT out of it..), also I could get superdrol instead of A-bombs and from what I've heard it doesn't make you bloat as much as oxy. I know I only weigh rn around 85kg but before my shoulder injury I used to be around 115-120kg and could f.ex. do some reps with 160kg on bench press and 20+ pull-ups and do deadlift sets with around 200kg. I've been now able to hit the gym with kinda low wheighs at gym in 2 months and feel like my shoulder starting to work again and could put on some serious work and since I had to have all those compounds in my locker I wanted to ask you more professionals if you would come up with any of that.. On one notice tho I've been thinking keeping the deca only at 100-125mg a week wouldn't even been taking that at all but its just probably the best compound that ever helped me and done wonders with my joint pains no matter how hard you train.. What do you think about that, would it reduce the risks any less or do u see it more as a waste of deca?

Coffeeshroom, thank you very much for your take in on this, appreciated. You got it just right like I was thinking (not to take oxy and trest at the same time coz its very toxic and use oxys as a kickstart for the cycle), but would you prefer sdrol over abombs? I've never done sdrol before and oxys mixed with all those other compounds may cause fair amount of bloating. I'd also like to hear on ur opinion why to kickstart with abombs only for 25 days, I mean is it long enough or would you do it to reduce the risks when moving on ment? I was thinking of running 26 of them 50mg a week and last 2 weeks for 100mg a week.. And same question with the MENT do you feel like 3 weeks at the end of the cycle would be long enough to see any serious effects from that and should I rly get letrozole also for being only 3 weeks on MENT?
Also, Coffeshroom which one would you prefer at the end of the cycle (anavar,tbol or proviron along with hcg nolva and clomid) coz winstrol is def out of question with me it makes my life living hell with those joint pains..
And for all of you which compound would you leave out of this cycle if you had to pick one, and does anyone here have any experience with peptides or SARMs? I was offered to do MK-677 and RAD-140 plus Ghrp6+cjc1295 and honestly I don't have much knowledge about these compounds except from what I've heard that they can really be helpful and not very harmful for body so it got me rly interested.. Would it make any sense at all to combine those with what I've already been planning or if I end up taking those is there something I could easily give up so the cycle wouldnt include that many compounds? Coz the only way I see it is to leave the trest/deca or both alone but I need deca at least that 100mg a week to be able to move freely without my joints feeling like they on fire..?

On a diet though, I remember hearing that you shouldn't use that much carbohydrates esp with SARMs so what kinda food would u recommend except plenty of proteins and meat?

Thank you all again for reading and the tips I know that cycle may sound pretty crazy and not sure what the end result will be and what do I end up using except for test, tren, small amount of deca and adrol/sdrol depending mostly on your opinions that's for sure. Deca, trest, SARMs and peptides are all still up for debate for me. Third option would be by starting with orals (sdrol/adrol mostly depending on your opinion..) among with test 500mg/week and deca 500-600mg/week and after 5 weeks change deca to tren A and continue with that until the end of the cycle without using trest at all?

Again thanks for your time and tips in advance, much appreciated!

 

[Genetic Freak]

@Genetic Freak we are still not on the same page.
the oxy is a kickstart like sdrol or dbols or tbol and so on
the dose of test is 500mg a week ( 250mg 2x a week ) total 500mg test a week
the dose of deca is 250mg a week ( 125mg 2x a week ) total 250mg a week
the dose of abombs is 100mg a day ( 50mg 2x a day ) total 100mg a day

So total AAS a week of injectables is 750mg total
so total AAS a week of oral is 700mg

count that together then you get your 1450mg but that is only the total for first 3 weeks because of the oral kickstart and after 25 days it will only be 750mg AAS a week which is the normal dose for bulking.

I use to compete and have a fair bit of knowledge on this but clearly the terminology change or way off doing things. But a cycle normally had its base compounds like 2-3 inj plus a kickstart oral and short acting inj at the end with another oral like winstrol, anavar,tbol or proviron to help solidify gains.

Also the reason i advised to use abombs in the beginning and the ment at the end so he isnt using 2 very toxic compounds at the same time. With the abombs he can lower it to 50mg a day but still just use it the first 3-4 weeks of your cycle.

Im clearly not as educated in AAS as you but i have some insight and if things have change since the last time i use to run cycles then im more then open to learn more and other approaches

I was brought up on the old school methodology, and used similar compounds and dose as you discussed..
Our knowledge on anabolic/androgenic compounds has increased significantly in the last 40 years, as has our understanding of human physiology..
We believe there is a safer and more conservative way to use hormones, the sticky "Why you should not frontload" should have explained everything..
I hope you have read it and now understand our reasoning..

 

[RaoulD]

A little off-topic, but I keep wondering why everybody keeps talking about me frontloadin when I've never said such thing only that I'll kickstart my cycle with A_bombs.. Apparently, frontloading is still very popular among some users discussed last night over 2 friends who've been on stuff since they were 18 and they told me that I should def frontload at least 1000mg of deca in my thigh about 3 weeks before the real cycle so it would rly start to kick-in before the cycle ofc Im not gonna do that after reading that great article about frontloading above^

 

[Genetic Freak]

A little off-topic, but I keep wondering why everybody keeps talking about me frontloading when I've never said such thing only that I'll kickstart my cycle with A_bombs.. Apparently, frontloading is still very popular among some users discussed last night over 2 friends who've been on stuff since they were 18 and they told me that I should def frontload at least 1000mg of deca in my thigh about 3 weeks before the real cycle so it would rly start to kick-in before the cycle ofc Im not gonna do that after reading that great article about frontloading above^

Kickstart and frontloading is the same thing and totally retarded..

 

[RaoulD]

Oh, really? You may have noticed english ain't my mother language and Ive always thought frontloading means like I described before like shooting deca or some AAS high-amount into your system couple weeks before starting the cycle and agreed it sounds retarted.. Kickstarting on the other hand Ive always thought means to start (usually pill_form AAS) same time you start the cycle and combine those together to get fresher start for the cycle but thanks for the information everyday you learn smthng new.. Anyway by your advices I think I'll start with only test/deca or maybe test/tren coz after couple weeks tren will kill my joints to such a point I could rly use some deca to make a decent walk even.. A-bombs maybe at the end of the cycle depending on results and trest I'm don't really wanna try anymore at least on this cycle.. Thanks for your advices and good luck with all your goals on the forum!

 

[Coffeeshroom]

the maybe do the test tren together with alow dose of deca like 100mg for the joint relieve or npp at a lowe dose for joint pain and lubrication so to speak
i love eq cycle and find them to have very short or gains that come over a long period of time but is more keepable but thats just my own personal exp.

but long cycles i would add deca and short cycles npp.

 

[Phobos]

Also, Coffeshroom which one would you prefer at the end of the cycle (anavar,tbol or proviron along with hcg nolva and clomid) coz winstrol is def out of question with me it makes my life living hell with those joint pains..
And for all of you which compound would you leave out of this cycle if you had to pick one, and does anyone here have any experience with peptides or SARMs? I was offered to do MK-677 and RAD-140 plus Ghrp6+cjc1295 and honestly I don't have much knowledge about these compounds except from what I've heard that they can really be helpful and not very harmful for body so it got me rly interested.. Would it make any sense at all to combine those with what I've already been planning or if I end up taking those is there something I could easily give up so the cycle wouldnt include that many compounds?

I have experience with MK677 and it definitely lubricates and heals your joints, and you may want to try it and see if it will allow you to not use the Deca.
As it takes a few months to really kick in I would suggest you start it as soon as you can, keep using it throughout the cycle and PCT (as obviously it is not an androgen it won't suppress your test production) and keep using it for at least 6 months in total.
The longest I have used it has been 10 months straight at 25mg per day and it doesn't seem to create a tolerance if anything it's the opposite it seems to slowly become more effective.
An excellent stack with MK677 is Huperzine A because by increasing your Acetylcoline it lowers your Somatostatin which tells your body to stop releasing GH so the effects combine very well IME.
There is at least one product that is based on that stack, don't know it it's okay to mention the brand and name here. Huperzine A is legally available as a food supplement worldwide AFAIK.
I would recommend against GHRP-6 as it increases you Prolactin levels and I would not want to be doing that while taking 19 NOR steroids that do the same.
Bear in mind that when increasing you GH levels in any way you have to reduce your carbs intake as your Insulin receptors will be occupied by the IGF-1 that your body produces from GH and that reduces your Insulin sensitivity.
So eating a large amount of carbs will tax your pancreas by making it work hard to produce a fuckload of Insulin which is not a good thing.
Limiting your carb intake while on MK677 won't be easy as it gives you an incredible appetite, to the point that some people cannot take it before sleep as they will wake up with stomach cramps caused by the extreme hunger, although I am able to sleep ok if I do it.

Be aware that depending on how sensitive you are on the effects of MK677 all the side effects of GH supplementation apply.
I had my hands grow wider in 10 months to the point of other people noticing how much my hands would feel different when shaking theirs and my feet also grew wider although to a lesser extent.
All this at 34 years of age and without taking any other PED.