I've posted a few times about getting into the methadone clinic, I am entering my 5th week on methadone and I'm at 90mg (I had a 5-7 bundle a day habit) my thing is I still feel like complete shit,I get hot flashes I have body aches I can't sleep or eat and I have terrible sweats I have no energy at all and I have the "fuck it's" 24/7 and I'm super fucking depressed. I never felt like this on subs I felt great I was up early I didn't miss work my house was spotless I took care of everything and I was happy and I don't feel anything like that at all on methadone in fact I'm already a depressed person and the methadone makes it worse. My question is I've been on methadone for now going into my 5th week and I'm on 90mg what will it take to switch to suboxone?
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Heroin How to go from methadone to suboxone
- Thread starter mhansen43
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Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
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I did it, but from dose of 50mg methadone. I will give you advice based on my experience.
1) If you can - try to taper down as low as you can. It would be best to go as low as 30mg methadone. The lower you go the smoother the transition will be.
2) Try to get short acting opioid, like morphine or oxycodone that will keep you out of the withdrawal for a week to maximum 2 weeks.
3) Stop taking (by now reduced dosage of) methadone and replace it with equivalent dose of short acting opioid.
4) Take short acting opioid (orally) for a week or max two weeks, so you clear as much methadone from your body as you can.
5) After a week or two, stop short acting opioid and start induction on buprenorphine.
This way you will not have precipitated withdrawal because methadone will be mostly out of your system and induction will be pretty straightforward. The lower you taper methadone the smoother transition will be. I believe that you would not suffer too much if you would cut methadone to 50mg in next 2 weeks. You have been on methadone for 4-5 weeks, and it seems (based on your account) that you are on too high dose anyway, so I believe that you can cut the dose to 50mg in next 2 weeks. If you can not go that low, go as low as you can. Taking short acting opioid, like oral morphine/oxycodone/hydrocodone, in the dosages that would hold you, for a week or two, would help you clean your body from accumulated methadone.
Be careful not to relapse in this time. If you are not sure could you do it than this is not a technique for you!
After a week or two of short acting opioid you are ready for induction. I believe that you know the drill from there (stop opioids, wait till withdrawal kicks in, take buprenorphine). This process will allow you to avoid precipitated withdrawal, but if you do not taper sufficiently you will not be able to avoid withdrawal that one experience when going from high full agonist dose to buprenorphine. If 100mg of morphine (orally) is enough to hold you out of the withdrawal than transition to buprenorphine should be smooth. For larger doses you will have to experience some withdrawal as your tolerance lowers to maximum effect that buprenorphine can provide. That would not be as bad as precipitated withdrawal, but it would be withdrawal for few days as your tolerance is lowering.
I hope this helped a bit. I wish you all the luck!
You can do this!
1) If you can - try to taper down as low as you can. It would be best to go as low as 30mg methadone. The lower you go the smoother the transition will be.
2) Try to get short acting opioid, like morphine or oxycodone that will keep you out of the withdrawal for a week to maximum 2 weeks.
3) Stop taking (by now reduced dosage of) methadone and replace it with equivalent dose of short acting opioid.
4) Take short acting opioid (orally) for a week or max two weeks, so you clear as much methadone from your body as you can.
5) After a week or two, stop short acting opioid and start induction on buprenorphine.
This way you will not have precipitated withdrawal because methadone will be mostly out of your system and induction will be pretty straightforward. The lower you taper methadone the smoother transition will be. I believe that you would not suffer too much if you would cut methadone to 50mg in next 2 weeks. You have been on methadone for 4-5 weeks, and it seems (based on your account) that you are on too high dose anyway, so I believe that you can cut the dose to 50mg in next 2 weeks. If you can not go that low, go as low as you can. Taking short acting opioid, like oral morphine/oxycodone/hydrocodone, in the dosages that would hold you, for a week or two, would help you clean your body from accumulated methadone.
Be careful not to relapse in this time. If you are not sure could you do it than this is not a technique for you!
After a week or two of short acting opioid you are ready for induction. I believe that you know the drill from there (stop opioids, wait till withdrawal kicks in, take buprenorphine). This process will allow you to avoid precipitated withdrawal, but if you do not taper sufficiently you will not be able to avoid withdrawal that one experience when going from high full agonist dose to buprenorphine. If 100mg of morphine (orally) is enough to hold you out of the withdrawal than transition to buprenorphine should be smooth. For larger doses you will have to experience some withdrawal as your tolerance lowers to maximum effect that buprenorphine can provide. That would not be as bad as precipitated withdrawal, but it would be withdrawal for few days as your tolerance is lowering.
I hope this helped a bit. I wish you all the luck!
You can do this!
fightingthetoot
Bluelighter
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Welcome to world of maintaining on meth & BUPE both em do the same shitty things to you, people maybe say different but i don’t find much a difference, part from bupe making you pure clear headed, which isn’t great if you don’t take benzos. Am getting of my 70ml , I wanna want off man wanna shit properly.
Ganjcat
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I do not get anyone would want to go from methadone to subs you have everything you need with methadone it don't mess with your receptors and gets you high it's basically liquid heroin for Christ dipshit it don't get better then that the only reason I can think someone wanting to do that is they are not understanding the benefits of the methadone or are not using it properly is using heroin with it which is fine once and a while just not everyday I've gone 2 days now without one puff of heroin actually I've been basically 5 days without it I did 'slip up ' on Sunday night someone lent me 20 quid but I still didn't touch it or get tempted to until the next morning I could never of done that a few month ago I probably wouldn't even be able to resist smoking it all right there at my dealers house any ex skag head will know what I mean and what I'm talking about its like crack it's impossible to not re use until it's gone that's what I used to think a while ago but it's bulshit it's the voice my head I just want other people who have or are going through heroin addiction to know it will get better if you truly want it to the worst will be over soon the worst is defo over for me I've got my whole life to look forward to and I owe it all to methadone and a lot of willpower
sekio
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Everyone has different body chemistry, there are definitely people out there who feel better on buprenorphine than on methadone, and some the other way around. Just because you have a positive experience with metadone therapy,. doesn't mean everyone in the world will have the same experience. And the negative effects that OP is experiencing are not caused by misunderstanding the benefits of methadone either... It sounds to me like they might need to increase the dose actually.
Thanks for the advice, I was actually thinking this was how I was going to have to do it. I wanted to get some advice first before doing it. I love this forum, the truth is doctor's really don't know anything about the stuff they are giving us and how to take it. When I first started on subs the doctor did my drug test saw that my heroin had fentanyl in it and told me to take the sub at 12 hours.....that's was the worst 24-28 hours of my life. And even then I had no idea it was precipitated withdraw I had to go through it 2 more times before looking it up and finding out this was a thing. When I told my doctor about it he looked at me like I had 4 heads and told me I didn't know what I was talking about. It was then I realized they had no idea what was really going on. I never ask my doctor about this sort of thing anymore I always come here because we know what we go through. I still have subs from the last time I prescribed them, it's getting my hands on pills that may be the issue. But I haven't tried in a long time so I'll have to search around. Thanks again I appreciate you taking the time to reply!
15yearuser
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Suboxone has several key advantages over methadone. I've had a physical addiction to opioids for 20 years. I've been on both medications and can tell you the major differences. The main problem with methadone is that it's a full opioid agonist and fundamentally works the same as all the others your trying to quit. And the main consequence of this is you will require higher and higher doses to keep you satisfied and quench the cravings. Just as @Ganjcat is saying, methadone only keeps his cravings at bay for several days then he uses again. While buprenophine will actively block other opiods if you try to use. You'll do it a couple times and then realize your just wasting money and you might as well just stick with the suboxone. It took me 3 tries with suboxone starting in 2003 but by 2011 I've been totally clean from all opioids and still take 16mg of suboxone a day. I have no cravings or urge to use and have totally turned my life around. In the mid 90's I became addicted to oxy and other strong opioids which got to the point I was using 300-500mg a day. Once I'd had enough of that life I got on a methadone program. It took 3 months of being totally sick before I started getting the smallest bit of relief. This was at 250mg of methadone. When I reached 300mg they wouldn't go any higher and I was still having cravings. Finally after another month I started feeling better and began drug court and got my legal issues taken care of. I completed drug court successfully and thought damn, methadone is great. I still had cravings and soon I didn't feel the methadone at all. So I decided to tirate down, I did it very slowly but began feeling bad when I got below 150mg. So my Dr prescribed me xanax, big mistake!!! I then developed a terrible benzo addiction. Now this mixture lowered my inhibitions and my common sense and I began to use large amounts of cocaine. Started snorting, then smoking, then shooting. So now I have 3 bad addictions. Ended up getting kicked out of the clinic so no more methadone, and it was the absolute worst feeling and experience I ever had. I put a gun in my mouth and almost pulled the trigger, but I suddenly saw my dog looking at me and I just couldn't do it with her looking at me with sad puppy eyes. I started buying methadone off the street which was of course expensive. Oxy had no effect anymore, I'd need 10 OC 80's just to stay well. Dope didn't do sqaut, even that raw. These were the days before fentanyl. So now I've lost everything again, I'm in worse shape then the first time. And have multiple addictions this time around.i get locked up for 13 months. That fucking methadone withdrawal is far worse than any other opioid by far. It's long half life is a double edged sword. Yeah it'll hold you over longer between doses but the withdrawal last so fucking long. It took 6 months sitting in jail before I finally started feeling better.i got on work release, got a good job, finished drug court again and the day I was released I went to the clinic and started on methadone AGAIN!! The whole fucking cycle was starting over. I was up to 250mg a day again. I made up my mind I was gonna change things this time. I got with suboxone dr, who was one of the first in the country to be certified, and she told me to wean down to 30mg of methadone, which took about 6 months, I did that. Then she told me about the hardest part. Make sure I was off work for 7 days and prepare for hell. I had to completely stop the methadone and wait at least 5 full days for all if it to excrete from my system. On day 6 I was hurting more than ever, she did give me librium and clonidine which did help some. On day 7 I started the suboxone, one half every 6 hours and increase that by a half each day until I started feeling better. I got up to 4 8mg subutex a day which was the maximum dose. After about 3 days of taking that I finally felt better. And each day I felt better and better. I had no cravings, physical or psychological, and after a month a felt 100 percent. It was a 15 roller coaster ride and now I was finally feeling normal. Over the next several years I weaned down to 2 8/2 films a day which works absolutely great and I owe my life to suboxone!! Hope my story helps you in some way, prepares you for the hurdles, but shows you it can be done, even when switching from 250mg or more of methadone. I now have been 100 percent clean since April 26th 2012 Also @sekio made some great pointe as well. Good luck to you, you can do it!!!!
Ganjcat
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Good point but bud points and like said everyone's different with these drugs and if I'm honest I know myself and I know suboxone is not for me I'm not ready to go cold turkey even if the docs day I will be well that's all nice and all but if they get it wrong the dose and give me to much or I make a dosing mistake and dose to early and trigger the suboxone withdrawal that will just set me back and potentially put me in danger and even if I dose it right I'm to scared to take something that blocks me from getting high and I still need my high im making huge progress on the methadone though before I always smoked my heroin none.stop until it's all gone now i have proved multiple times I can save it plus it's a great feeling waking up knowing you got heroin left and it's not because the methadone gets me high it does but a month ago even on methadone high I would smoke heroin none stop if I knew I had heroin it was like I was possessed mentally by the heroin I still do the first time I managed to save some(my shortest time now)I saved it until the morning it was so hard I think I got out of bed to ''just get it out the way'' and then get back in bed 6 times but when I woke up the next morning it was like Christmas in my stomach as soon as I opened my eyes sober I grabbed the foil and got to work but that day has changed my life I proved to myself that my fight with addiction is not fruitless and helpless but the opposite even after I had the heroin I didn't miss it like I used to I just enjoyed the feeling (also the knowledge that I could and was going to the Chemist later to get 50ml of free heroin was also a relaxing sentiment)and appreciated my life which I do now I am a different person now and can virtually guarantee I will be completely free of heroin through the months I've learnt lots through my addiction journey it's a savage savage world anyone who thinks of trying heroin don't stick to codeine like I did I was fine on my codeine trips I hardly had one of the best highs of my life the first time I did a recreational dose of codeine the first time i.took a heavy dose I can feel it now the feeling when your hugging your girlfriend both naked combine that with being in a perfect bath and imagine that warm feeling going through the INSIDE of your whole body some beautiful resistance put on your arms and legs so you move really slow like and when you try to fight the resistance it feels so goooood ohh man then I lift my leg up with an invisible pleasure dumbbell on it and when I raise them it feels soooo good I've had heroin highs that are better then this especially the strong shit but it feels dirty I feel bad when I nod out like guilty anyway I'm high I had double my methadone dose today chased with a nice cup of tea (pro tip for anyone who wants their methadone to kick in straight away if it's in liquid chase it with a warm drink like a cup of tea like me or drink the warm beverage as soon as possible this makes it kick in faster I can confirm as a tip from a junky vet comes in handy if your rattling)just because I'm obviously gonna treat myself on my birthday and I'm not using that as an excuse but I just want one day without worrying about anything so I'm probably gonna have a movie 19 lockdown webcam a few fit birds and mates and get fucked anyone wanna inbox me or talk anyone that I know a little bit of have talked to before feel free
because it's my birthday tomorrow and been smoking some weed
because it's my birthday tomorrow and been smoking some weed
SmokeyKolegrove
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I've heard people say get down to 30 mgs and others say skip three days. I was on 200 mgs but haven't taken any since Wednesday. If I go.back actually have to taper from 200 t0 30 I'll never get og. What should I do?
TheInvisibleStoner
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You going to subs?
Off 200 you will need to skip 10-15+ days.
From 65mg I stopped and on the 11th day took a sub and went into PWD. Ate them all day and just got worse and worse so stopped. Still regret that day since felt the subs going up and down my back ripping opiates out. My chest KILLED. Ruthless headache.
Took some subs again like a week later and felt them a bit, perhaps a tad buzz but was coming up on 3 weeks opiate free (aside taking some subs on the 11th day...and was VERY ill, and why the subs worked. You have to be very sick for them to work).
The OP isn't tolerating methadone well. Some don't. Subs may be a better option. Sounds like he has a blown out liver to me or something underlying where the methadone is being rejected. Shooting $700+ of dope a day will completely fuck you.
Off 200 you will need to skip 10-15+ days.
From 65mg I stopped and on the 11th day took a sub and went into PWD. Ate them all day and just got worse and worse so stopped. Still regret that day since felt the subs going up and down my back ripping opiates out. My chest KILLED. Ruthless headache.
Took some subs again like a week later and felt them a bit, perhaps a tad buzz but was coming up on 3 weeks opiate free (aside taking some subs on the 11th day...and was VERY ill, and why the subs worked. You have to be very sick for them to work).
The OP isn't tolerating methadone well. Some don't. Subs may be a better option. Sounds like he has a blown out liver to me or something underlying where the methadone is being rejected. Shooting $700+ of dope a day will completely fuck you.
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CfZrx
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Well, I switched from methadone to subs a couple years ago, and it was 100% painless. I could not believe my doc said quit the methadone(mind you I took 15mg/day for pain, but also had been strung out before the methadone), and 24 hours later e strapped on a fentanyl 50mcg patch and like 2 days later I removed the patch and began the sub. painless!
SmokeyKolegrove
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Thanks for the information. I'm only supposed to be taking 100mg of methadone but here for the past three months or so I've been taking more. I have been laid off due to covid-19 but going back to work this coming Monday. I think I've had too much time on my hands. I think I'm going to try to ween myself off the methadone at about 2mg per week. The clinic wants to do 5 mg per week but I'm scared of the withdrawal symptoms. I've been on it 7 years in March. That's long enough. I want my life back.
Ganjcat
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the main thing I worry about when considering the suboxone option is how sick I have to let myself get and how much withdrawal I have to endure myself if it's even worth it at all if that makes sense I'm just such a pussy for proper full blown wd especially since starting the methadone but I also think not being able to use would be good but I know myself and I know i might seriously regret that it might send me crazy trying to get high and just ending up as sober as I was or worse sending me into wd
It sounds like Methadone is a better and safer option than street heroin, but trying to come off is even harder due to the half life.
What about taking OP's which are long acting, but not as long as methadone. Would dosing OP's 2-3 times per day be a solid option to try and come off heroin at home, and then when its time to switch from OP's to Subs, you can do 3-5 days of short acting oxys just to let the OP's half life escape, and from there wait until you withdraw, and take subs.
That is my plan. Ive came down on the dope to a very small amount for the last couple months. Around .2-.3g/day down from what was 1-1.5g/day sniffed, never shot.
What about taking OP's which are long acting, but not as long as methadone. Would dosing OP's 2-3 times per day be a solid option to try and come off heroin at home, and then when its time to switch from OP's to Subs, you can do 3-5 days of short acting oxys just to let the OP's half life escape, and from there wait until you withdraw, and take subs.
That is my plan. Ive came down on the dope to a very small amount for the last couple months. Around .2-.3g/day down from what was 1-1.5g/day sniffed, never shot.
OpiateKiller
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I just jumped
From 110 mg to subutex with little discomfort.
Waited 4 days, or about 100 hours.
Was bridged with 2 mg of diluadid on day 2 and 3 to hold me over until I could micro dose sub.
Took 1 mg subutex, then an hour later, 2 mg subutex up to 20 mg in 24 hours. I faced the smallest bit of precipitated withdrawal but nothing crazy like I have before.
You don’t need to go that low to like 30 mg like they suggest. However it will make it easier if you drop your dose. I didn’t though
Now I’m even off Suboxone in 3 weeks. By day 3 of the subutex I felt good to go, so trust me it’s doable
From 110 mg to subutex with little discomfort.
Waited 4 days, or about 100 hours.
Was bridged with 2 mg of diluadid on day 2 and 3 to hold me over until I could micro dose sub.
Took 1 mg subutex, then an hour later, 2 mg subutex up to 20 mg in 24 hours. I faced the smallest bit of precipitated withdrawal but nothing crazy like I have before.
You don’t need to go that low to like 30 mg like they suggest. However it will make it easier if you drop your dose. I didn’t though
Now I’m even off Suboxone in 3 weeks. By day 3 of the subutex I felt good to go, so trust me it’s doable