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Bupe how many of you can do a short term taper on suboxone

itsok

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
397
how many of u think suboxone made ur addition worse?

have ppl experience depression from suboxone due to pharmalogical reasons? Do u think subutex wouldnt cause depression long term?

thos who have done a short term taper, is it permanent or do u relapse?

just wondering if its just me who subs dont work for in the long run and hard to taper short run
 
IMO suboxone is a miraculous detox tool if you stay clean take it less than 14 days;.

Long term sub should be for only the most hardcore addicts like me...

Sub definetly wont make your addiction worse its not even close to real active addiction... It doesnt make me feel anything but "normal"

I dont quite understand yoru question without more info.. THis all varies from person to person
 
I could be way off-base but it seems to me like you're looking for other people to agree with what you want to believe so you can blame suboxone for not making you better. Suboxone is just a tool - you can use it positively to assist you in your recovery or you can use it to hinder such. For some people it's the right tool and for others it isn't. 'It's a bad carpenter who blames his tools.'
 
^I don't think you can compare a drug that changes your brain and possibly personality to a tool a carpenter uses. I am not against suboxone or methadone, they have helped me tons, when they were needed.

I can positively say that for me personally suboxone worked just like any other opiate/opioid meaning made me depressed, have no feelings. Which was comfortable for me on the inside, but for some reason I need high end feelings to be the best I am.

I don't know if that makes sense. Any kind of opiate, be it sub, makes me dull, not feel, and I personally wouldn't mind being in that state for the long run. But it makes me much less productive as a person. My insanely intense feelings make me create art and writing and stuff. And on opiates that is really difficult.

I like being on sub/methadone/dope because then there is no pain for me. But for me with pain comes creativity. It's a paradox I have been fighting with. I don't think that's normal because most people I know can function just fine on sub, similar to being sober. I wish that was me. I don't know if I am bipolar/quatrapolar or some shit but being totally sober off opiates (sub) has caused me to be the crazy, creative person I used to be before I became dependent on opiates 3 years ago.

I am not blaming anything on anything, but I am totally different sober than on any drug, be it sub or an antidepressant. They all make me dull, which is good in a way, but takes away that part of me which makes me be creative and crazy, sometimes in a good way sometimes in a bad way.

Trust me, I want to kill those feelings with drugs/meds but those feelings make me who I am, I think in a good way overall.

I don't think I will ever go back on any kind of maintenance drug.
 
I disagree respectfully with Cane and think that, in certain cases, suboxone can make things alot worse. I don't think this is necessarily due to any fault on the part of the user but to misrepresentation from doctors and to mismanagement generally.

I felt superb on suboxone for a couple of months but thereafter became seriously, suicidally depressed. I didn't have the energy to help myself or to do anything. To be fair, I think that this would have happened with any opiate. Just be wary of people who attest to the anti-depressant potential of suboxone because it's not always that simple.

I also think that alot of people get on subs for the sole purpose of getting an easy fix. So unless to begin with the person has an at least moderately serious addiction, then yes, of course, buprenorphine simply worsens the opiate addiction.

(And I totally agree with above that opiates have the potential to just drain us. They're like anti-depressants; they take away the pain, but also the positivity. I didn't write a single word/compose a single note during my time with opiates. I've achieved more in the 70 days I've been clean than I did during the 3 years on opiates)
 
^I agree a lot with the above post. Any opiate for me is great in a short term, just like antidepressants, but after lets say 2-3 months, I become a zombie. which can be good and bad, depending on where the user is in life. Sometimes they need to be on maintenance for longer, for pain purposes for example. Or for pregnancy in my case, with methadone so I don't have legal issues as I already had other stuff in the system which would have showed on the meconium test, which shows any drug use as early as the first few months.

Totally and I swam in the lake next to my house for the first time in three years, at night, it felt so good. No sweats, just me. It was amazing. I felt so alive. You can't describe and before I would have been shivering just taking a shower.

Everything about my body is changing in good ways.

And music, OMG, it just sounds so different sober than on sub/methadone. I haven't listened to music the whole time I was on opiates and now my computer is filled with music which I listen to all the time. So weird how that is for many people.
 
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Obviously if you can manage abstenance then that is better than being on suboxone - what's the need for it if you can stay abstenant? However, abstenance isn't easy for most, due to physical addiction and the huge psychological impact drug addiction has on people's lives. Suboxone (or buprenorphine rather) is an opioid and of course it has neurochemical effects but it is designed to be used as a substitute for a more dangerous and damaging pattern of opioid use (shooting street drugs or pills, needing cash to get your fix, living a chaotic lifestyle etc) not a miracle drug that is going to make everything okay and has no negatives. It is however safe(er than heroin), allows you do live a more stable life and helps you not to slip back into using (as it won't work unless you stop the suboxone for a day or two). That is the whole idea behind maintenance therapy..

I think it works well to think of it as a tool, it helps people to be clear about why they want to be on suboxone (or not) and what they hope to achieve from it. Some people do find it has antidepressant properties, but others clearly find the opposite - but it's primary use should be as a tool for those who need it :)
 
Bupe is a middle-ground between full-blown opiate addiction and being clean. It isn't one or the other. If you want to stop acting like an opiate addict but don't feel you're past using opiates in general, bupe maintenance is a great option. You'll start behaving as if you were taking an antidepressant of sorts, only one with which you can feel the effects. Don't believe it is a miracle cure as it isn't... It's simply "opiate use lite".
 
^ good post, peg.

Zyggy and suess - I didn't mean to preemptively deny your experiences with them and I don't at all doubt what you guys are saying whatsoever - I was more so trying to speak to the OP's motivation because of how pervasive rationalization is in addiction.

I certainly agree that for many taking a ton of suboxone isn't really helping and it carries over many or all of the problems they experienced with opioid use but this really isn't the case for a lot of people who take suboxone appropriately, do not feel agonist effects at all from it but simply have their craving reduced and have the blockade as a safeguard so they are able to focus on other things and move on in their life.

I was referring to it as a tool because for some people it's the right tool and for others, like suess and zyggy, it's like trying to pound a screw in with an hammer - it's just not going to work and it's not going to be any better if you try to force it.

I was also referring to it as a tool because you can use suboxone as an aid while you're aggressively pursuing other necessary changes to your life to move on past addiction or you can expect it to fix everything, do nothing else and then blame the suboxone when you're not getting better (which is what I suspected with this thread). OP are you aggressively pursuing recovery? Are you actively addressing the reasons why you used and making the necessary changes? Are you distancing yourself from the environment and people you used in and around? Are you committed to doing whatever it takes to get clean and following through with it?
 
I believe you only need suboxone for 4-7 days max before you can completely stop and feel fine if not minor wds if anything.

Everytime Im trying to get past opiate withdrawl I only need 1 or 2 6mg pills MAX. with doses of only 2-3mg a day. Works wonders.
 
Zyggy, I feel u 100% on both your posts. It's so nice to be able to hit the "pause button" on your feelings with opiates. I can truly say, if it wasn't for heroin, I don't know how I could have made it through some of the shit I have. But with that being said, all the highs and lows of your feelings is what life is about. I don't want to live forever numbed out to the world. That ain't truly living.
 
thats strange i think opiates are one of the most amazing things for creativity; thats why alot of famous jazz artists became heroin addicts.. but thats besides the point..

the problem here is everyone is completely different so many factors are involved... so all this is purely subjective...

Personally its hard enough for me to stay on suboxone and not relapse so thats an indication i better stay on it considering my history and past...

The truth is suboxone does save many lives
 
I am not convinced that opiates ever enhanced anyone's creativity. I think that creativity is totally and essentially contrary to what opiates are about, namely, sedation, numbing of pain, tranquility, etc. I think there needs to be a certain amount of discord and unrest for creativity to really be able to flourish. But, I suppose, each to his own.

Cane - Yeah man, I understand where you're coming from so no sweat. I just think that, particularly in people who are prone to depression to begin with, bupe (like any opiate) can make things much, much worse. Also it's probably only a minority of people who get on bupe to treat serious, chronic opiate addictions; many people are simply not dealing with addictions of this nature. So for these people it seems that bupe can really do more harm than good, especially if, as you pointed out, they're not doing anything else to help their recovery.

Zyggy - I massively agree about the music thing. I didn't listen to music ever when I was on opiates. I just wasn't receptive to it, like it was somehow 'besides the point'. Since stopping though it is a totally different experience. Interesting to know I'm not the only one.
 
To me, buprenorphine was just a part of my recovery, as I really did honestly strongly desire to cessate heroin use once and for all, and was very glad to be done with it when I did quit some time ago.

It takes time to quit and to break the psychological connections you had going to the drug addiction and your life. Within just a year of use I could tell the difference and it was like night and day.

Most importantly, take good care of yourself. Focus on living a healthy life, exercising plentifully, eating right: this goes a long way. :)
 
I believe you only need suboxone for 4-7 days max before you can completely stop and feel fine if not minor wds if anything.

Everytime Im trying to get past opiate withdrawl I only need 1 or 2 6mg pills MAX. with doses of only 2-3mg a day. Works wonders.

This is what I'm doing atm, except my schedule is 2 weeks with 3 8mg tabs. I'm currently at day 10 and have 2 mg left, so I'll jump off at 0,5mg in 4 days. Seems to work OK for the moment, I can work and sleep without problems, no noticable depression.

I expect some sniffles and minor discomfort next WE, but nothing compared to full cold turkey WD (that I also tried several times).

My habit was moderate, 1 to 1,5g decent H per day, smoked. Cold turkey off that was a bitch and I always relapsed on day 3 or 4, so subs seem a miracle drug to me atm. But let's wait till the taper is done, maybe this idea will backfire on me, too early to really tell.
 
I think it will definetely work for you! I recently had a 5 or so day binge with heroin 2-3grams a day and was feeling right shitty after 24 hours, I only used sub for 4 days or so and felt fine after! =D
 
Cane - Yeah man, I understand where you're coming from so no sweat. I just think that, particularly in people who are prone to depression to begin with, bupe (like any opiate) can make things much, much worse. Also it's probably only a minority of people who get on bupe to treat serious, chronic opiate addictions; many people are simply not dealing with addictions of this nature. So for these people it seems that bupe can really do more harm than good, especially if, as you pointed out, they're not doing anything else to help their recovery.

I've done a substantial amount of research into the use of buprenorphine given my field of study and I haven't seen anything indicating that it causes or even exacerbates depression so I'm really not sure of this. It seems logical and more likely that people were using DUE to depression or other issues which return when people stop their DOC. Aside from this, completely changing your life and getting off drugs is extremely difficult and between withdrawals, PAWS and other problems, some degree of depression is an inevitability for most.

I definitely agree that a lot of people get on bupe inappropriately though. Everyone, addicts especially, want an easy fix so they don't try giving recovery a serious go without it and just expect the pill to magically make everything better. I've seen so many people who had small habits, used short-term or just hadn't tried anything else start taking suboxone without doing any counseling, 12-step work or anything else, not make any changes in their lives and then blame the suboxone when they didn't get better. I think suboxone maintenance is really only appropriate for a very specific group that isn't responsive to more benign treatment protocols but unfortunately, a lot of people get on it who shouldn't.
 
I've done a substantial amount of research into the use of buprenorphine given my field of study and I haven't seen anything indicating that it causes or even exacerbates depression so I'm really not sure of this. It seems logical and more likely that people were using DUE to depression or other issues which return when people stop their DOC. Aside from this, completely changing your life and getting off drugs is extremely difficult and between withdrawals, PAWS and other problems, some degree of depression is an inevitability for most.

I definitely agree that a lot of people get on bupe inappropriately though. Everyone, addicts especially, want an easy fix so they don't try giving recovery a serious go without it and just expect the pill to magically make everything better. I've seen so many people who had small habits, used short-term or just hadn't tried anything else start taking suboxone without doing any counseling, 12-step work or anything else, not make any changes in their lives and then blame the suboxone when they didn't get better. I think suboxone maintenance is really only appropriate for a very specific group that isn't responsive to more benign treatment protocols but unfortunately, a lot of people get on it who shouldn't.


your always right right right right!
 
I definitely agree that a lot of people get on bupe inappropriately though. Everyone, addicts especially, want an easy fix so they don't try giving recovery a serious go without it and just expect the pill to magically make everything better. I've seen so many people who had small habits, used short-term or just hadn't tried anything else start taking suboxone without doing any counseling, 12-step work or anything else, not make any changes in their lives and then blame the suboxone when they didn't get better. I think suboxone maintenance is really only appropriate for a very specific group that isn't responsive to more benign treatment protocols but unfortunately, a lot of people get on it who shouldn't.

This. Some doctors out there are giving people 16mg of sub a day because they're addicted to hydrocodone. Fucking Lortabs! If that's what you're trying to quit, then yes suboxone can make getting clean a whole lot harer. Also no one needs 8mg two times a day, that's just too much.

Some people aren't responsive to therapy methods. Many of these people are "too smart for their own good" (hard to explain), and some just don't want to quit. I couldn't imagine trying to realistically taper-off from opiates with anything but sub or more specifically bupe.

As far as depression goes, I see how some could get depressed after the "honeymoon" period. After switching to bupe and actually getting high those first few days or weeks, you might think bupe is the greatest thing since China white. You don't have to hustle around or worry about not copping, and hey, you're still sort of getting highs that last many hours per use. Eventually this feeling is going to wear-off. I can imagine how one could attribute the wearing-off of the happy honeymoon phase to bupe actually causing depression. That's just one theory, anyways.
 
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