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Alcohol How long does it take to become physically addicted to alcohol ?

With an 8-10 shot average a day habit that lasted 9 months I stopped occasionally for a day or two and only got red ears, high blood pressure and anxiety. It felt like shit but I dont think I was near seizures or anything. But everybody is different and I have a seemingly high natural tolerance to all drugs and most drug withdrawals.
 
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A month or two of heavy drinking left me a shaking, sweating, shivering, shitting mess, and along with the opiate WD I endured in combination, my emotions were in the worst state they've been since I quit my psyche meds.

I may just be incredibly sensitive but if you have any underlying psychiatric issues (like most of us addicts, surprisingly) be very, very careful how you approach it.
 
I will continue to stress that the amount of beer/alcohol that causes dependence varies based on so many factors. Telling an individual that a certain amount of alcohol shouldn't cause withdrawal is not very good harm reduction advice. Especially if that individual is "self-medicating" for something else.

Also, once can very much become dependent on beer. Sure, hard alcohol is usually easier to get addicted to, but if one drinks 15 standard shots a day vs 15 regular beers a day they are basically going to still be addicted to the same amount of ethanol. Beer is often harder to get hooked on because it fills people up.
 
^
phactor is bang on the mney here.
I have friends who are heavily addicted to alcohol and hardly ever touch anything harder then beer or cider.
True it might take longer to become dependant through beer then on whiskey (for instance) but at its basic level its all ethanol and thats the addictive element.
OP, if you take out the withdrawal element of longterm benzo use (im not trying to downplay the WD, its truly horrific) then it should be alot healthier then longterm heavy alcohol use.
Benzos can have a bad effect on cognitive abilities in the longterm but doesnt carry the risks to your liver, digestive tract and general health that alcohol does.
 
I will continue to stress that the amount of beer/alcohol that causes dependence varies based on so many factors. Telling an individual that a certain amount of alcohol shouldn't cause withdrawal is not very good harm reduction advice. Especially if that individual is "self-medicating" for something else.

Also, once can very much become dependent on beer. Sure, hard alcohol is usually easier to get addicted to, but if one drinks 15 standard shots a day vs 15 regular beers a day they are basically going to still be addicted to the same amount of ethanol. Beer is often harder to get hooked on because it fills people up.

Good points. Agreed.
 
bunge, I'm sure you know this but there are a lot more than just "liver, digestive tract and general health", I suppose general health covers it but I think it need to be said that alcohol damages nearly every major organ in your body, it is essentially a poison that slowly kills everything in you, I mean everything such as body and mind.

This thread was helpful for me.

I've been what I consider a heavy drinker since I was a young teenager. Initially I used it to get a buzz and have fun with my mates, but I realized very early that I was able to hold my alcohol better than my teenage friends. I don't know in hindsight if that's a good or a bad thing, I think it was primarily because I'm an introvert - but get me pissed and let me loose on BlueLight and I'll type 'til my fingers are sore.

I've been consistently consuming at least 15 standard drinks a night, usually via beer but occasionally I'll do a concert or event or whatever where spirits are mixed in. I have had periods of months or years of complete abstinence in my life without showing any signs of withdrawal except for lack of sleep and heightened anxiety, both of which I've been plagued with me entire life anyway.

Presently, say for the last 4 years, on very few occasions have I gone a night without drinking at least 8 standard drinks.

I have been forced to not drink once or twice in this period and I did not suffer from any major symptoms such as tremors or seizures, however on each occasion I was unable to sleep.

I've gotta go get another beer so I'll leave it at that, I forgot the point.
 
opi8, Id cut it down to something more moderate. Just because you dont suffer physical WDs doesnt mean you arent consuming too much, you may even have to watch yourself closer because your body doesnt throw up warning signs (DTs) like the rest of us.

I love booze almost as much as I love life, I am the progeny of generations of alcoholics, and I associate with mostly alcoholics on my spare time... I dont throw a "cut it down to moderate levels" blurb in lightly. But just about everyone I know who regularly drank even "just a little too much" hit a health snag well before their time (15 drinks is a bit much my friend :p )

You know full well how poisonous the ethanol we saturate our organs is. I fucked up my body with booze by 26. Im awaiting blood work on what I think is a kidney disaster but MD thinks is a liver problem (no jaundice though). Constant tightness/awareness of my lower left and right back where the kidneys hang out IIRC, severity increases with booze or pill consumption. Also Ive had gastritis and a damaged esophogeal valve which gives me ruthless heartburn that even old people dont experience since my early 20s. Even my people like you who only drank less abrasive beer get caught up in the long run when we start talking "a little too much," that much ethanol inevitably takes its toll on human tissue. Its not if its when, and what better time than now?


Sorry for the length didnt wanna double post this next bit.


Re: a couple posts comparing beer vs liquor in dependence. I experienced more unpleasant withdrawals when Ive used rotgut liquor, than the times I achieved physical dependence (the shakes) on beer alone. It would seem to make sense that 15 units of ethanol a day is 15 units of ethanol a day, no matter what the method of ingestion is, but liquor WDs are somewhat harder on the body in my personal experience. Could your body process them differently due to the large strength disparity?

Another reason liquor is more conducive to WDs is because you can get waaay more ethanol into your system much much quicker. During my heavier use I would take a coffee mug of liquor (4-5 shots) upon waking up and my addiction compulsed me to have at least a doubler every ~45 mins, Id be functioning drunk by noon. Due to beers low ABV, it would be physically impossible to achieve my median BAC in the daytime. My physical dependence would absolutely decline, Id be sober most of the morning. All the time it takes to down individual beers, plus time for your body to process all of them . With liquor, Id have 5 beers worth of ethanol absorbing into my system before I even rub the sleep out of my eyes. Sobriety was virtually non existant with liquor, but sobriety is unavoidable for a tolerant drunk who has to drink several 12 oz beverages then wait for the body to process them.

Severe alcoholics usually need hundreds of fluid ounces of beer all day everyday to maintain, which is physically unpleasant to consume and deforms the body, which definitely isnt for most people. By comparison, liquorholics consume a mere 1-3 pints of spirits a day, and 3 is being generous. Its much easier to imbibe higher amounts of alcohol in shorter amounts of time with liquor, while avoiding the duration of a sober onset and unpleasant physical effects brought on by a gut full of beer all day. You urinate exponentially less, avoid a million calories of constant fluid intake with liquor, spend much less money, and the ABV means you can carry effective doses around most anywhere in your hip pocket (flask). These things make liquor a much more practical choice for severe alcoholics and therefore easier to fall victim to.

Personally waiting around sober for 2-3 hours for a bunch of pisswatery beer to register was excruciating at my level of alcoholism, beer was literally useless with my tolerance. My morning tremors would render basic activities like paperwork, email correspondence, meal preparation, etc, difficult or impossible if untreated. Sitting around a couple hours waiting for beer to meet my BAC requirement would be absurd. This degree of ethanol dependence can and does occur with beer drinkers, but you almost have to jump a few hurdles to get there. Beer drinkers will be A) facing sobriety at length in the morning waiting for a weak alcohol solution to meet your neccesary BAC, B) require a fondness/ability to pounding large volumes of pissy liquid daily and C) must be apathetic to to the physical effects of drinking barrels and barrels of beer, and D) be willing to forego the convenience of concealed maintenance doses.

Sorry its a long post but I havent been able to sleep the past couple nights, and this is actually supposed to be 2 posts.


Edit: I rounded a lot of my figures for simplicity sake. For example, I dont think it would take a full 100 ounces of beer to supress DTs nor do I swear by 2-3 hours to process that amount. My experience with beer withdrawals is comparatively limited but Ive shaken em twice and liquor a handful of times more than that. I also understand my level of alcoholism was a bit deeper than what is required to form basic DTs, Im simply relating personal results to illustrate differences I experienced between beer and liquor. I guess this is more of a disclaimer for the pedantic drugophiles around who get all nitpicky if you arent spot on with uptake/excretion info, pretty sure most could get the gist.
 
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Thanks for the post dank, I'm sleep deprived from meth use and coming down so I can't really respond properly, but I appreciate your post.

Cheers.
 
I dont throw a "cut it down to moderate levels" blurb in lightly. But just about everyone I know who regularly drank even "just a little too much" hit a health snag well before their time (15 drinks is a bit much my friend :p )

I just wanted to clarify something in case things are different in the States, or wherever you live. In Australia, we have a "standard drink" measurement. All alcoholic beverages must display the amount of "standard drinks" which is in them. This has been devised based on the alcohol content, obviously.

The beers I usually drink are 1.4 standard drinks at 375ml. They are 4.9% alcohol and yeah, I'll usually drink between 8-12 beers a night (depending on my financial situation). I used 15 standard drinks as an average. That's not a big difference I suppose, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

I really want to cut it down mate, but as of now, 9:30 roughly I'm on my 8th beer and I still haven't hit that comfortable spot that I'm looking for. It doesn't help that I was paid today, or late last night anyway so I have a bit of a stockpile of booze now. That's the hardest part for me I think, I don't get to that "special place" easily with beer - but I don't want to drink anything stronger, because when I drink, I suck it down like a fish. I need a drink that I can just keep sipping on for hours while browsing and making a fool of myself on bluelight, for example. When I do that with spirits, I end up pissed in a few hours, unable to walk straight and wake up with a fucking killer headache.

I don't know man, I need to sort a lot of shit out in my life, including alcohol, opiates, anxiety, depression, sui.. aah, sushi addiction etc.

Alcohol helps me get through every night so I don't have to dwell on all the bad shit that I've been through, am going through and will go through tomorrow. Beer is the perfect numbing agent that I can just keep sipping on and very slowly getting to the point that I want to get to.

I also know that I need to reduce, but I find it really hard to stop drinking once I've started.

Alcoholism is such a difficult problem, I find it's usually not the alcohol itself that is the problem, but all the other underlying conditions that I use alcohol to get away from. If I didn't make any sense, don't hesitate to ask for clarification, my head isn't really in tip top shape at the moment.

Added: Oh, one more thing - I can appreciate your internal pain. I had a car accident where I lacerated my liver (broken neck and all other kinds of cool shit as well) but now I have scar tissue on my liver, which is pretty much constantly.. I wouldn't say painful, but uncomfortable. It gets worse when I drink, but gets better when I drink enough, if you know what I mean.

In conclusion, life sucks and then you die.
 
I was a massive drinker. One of the few people I know that was truly addicted to alcohol. When I didn't drink for a day I would get delirium tremens, which can be fatal.

The amount of alcohol the OP is drinking is unhealthy, and not drinking might have some uncomfortable side effects, but it is no where near the amount that causes true alcohol withdrawal. First, if you were truly "addicted" 8 beers is nothing. If the OP were in fact addicted to alcohol, then 8 beers wouldn't be enough to stave off withdrawals. It takes hard alcohol, and lots of it, to get truly "addicted."

The problem with all that I just said is that addiction is a subjective term. In this case though, I take it to mean that if sudden cessation occurs you will get DT's, or you will have seizures, etc.

Oh it might be worth going to a doctor and getting your liver tested out for fat deposits. A large amount of fat deposits in the liver is a sign that you are beginning your journey towards liver failure.

^I agree with most of this post....From everything I've heard or seen over years of going to rehabs and detoxes and being involved with 12 step programs....I've never heard of anyone experiencing tru alcohol WD syndrome from only drinking 4-8 beers....The people I've seen experience those kinds of WD were almost invariably drinking large quantities of hard liquor, particularly vodka....The others were drinking high-gravity malt liquor.....

I was worried about this very thing 4-5 months ago. I had been drinking 12 beers of night, often with up to a pint of hard liquor on top of it for 6-8 months or so...I had occasional days off at first but the last 3-4 months was everyday...I experienced no real WD besides sleeplessness when I stopped...I didn't taper or use any other medications...

The thing that's different about the OPs case that probably changes things is the fact that they switched to alcohol after being physically dependent on benzos...It's kind like they never really went through the Benzo WD....If you can go a whole day without WD symptoms, you probably won't have any...and I know some asshole is gonna google alcohol WD and try to point out where it says that alcohol WD can start days after the last drink...That may be true in a very small minority of situations, but I've never seen or heard of it in real life...

I've been to detox facilities over 10 times and not once seen someone drinking that little have WD...the benzos do make it different, maybe...

It's good to point out all the facts to someone looking for help on BL, but I think it better to say something like:

"95+% of the time, X is usually what happens, although in very rare cases Y can happen", because chances are that the OP will fall into the majority group....

People on here love to scare people to death trying to make them worry about some exotic consequence of their drug use that only happens to a very small number of people....To me, that's bad HR advice!
 
I will continue to stress that the amount of beer/alcohol that causes dependence varies based on so many factors. Telling an individual that a certain amount of alcohol shouldn't cause withdrawal is not very good harm reduction advice. Especially if that individual is "self-medicating" for something else.

Also, once can very much become dependent on beer. Sure, hard alcohol is usually easier to get addicted to, but if one drinks 15 standard shots a day vs 15 regular beers a day they are basically going to still be addicted to the same amount of ethanol. Beer is often harder to get hooked on because it fills people up.
Hello to Phactor and everyone else-
First I'd like to make it clear that I have only read from the opening post up until this one.
I have been drinking close to a litre almost every day ( although I will go with out once every week or two). This has been going on steadily for the last 3 years or so.
I needed a colonoscopy last year and had to go 2 days without alcohol while I did my bowel prep. I think normally it's just supposed to be a day on liquid diet, but I also was constipated from being on fentanyl patches and oxycodone ir for over 2 years.
I definitely felt rough, but mostly bc I couldn't keep the prep down.
In the past, I remember going a few days without (for whatever reason) and having a HORRIBLE time.
I guess my point is, you would think that I would have gone through a horrible time with withdrawls... for some reason I did not.
This only encourages and backs up Phactor's post...
We cannot tell you what you will go through , even if we know your exact daily intake. It doesn't calm any fears for the O.P, but it's the plain truth. You may well go through hell....or only slight discomfort.
I also want to say that I see so many posts, mainly about drug use, implying that the person questioning their level of dependency is "so lucky, and wait til you're on THIS dose ...THEN you'll have wd's.", etc...
If anything, this attitude only helps someone already looking for an excuse to find one.
Phactor, thanks for posting.
Cat
 
When I made a post like this 8 months or so ago, a bunch of people told me, "No, everyone is Australia drinks that much, don't worry about it"...umm, "You're definitely drinking enough to go into WD"...."You may or you may not" etc....And I was very nervous, I had major anxiety worrying about it....And then someone said..."I've only ever heard of it with people drinking quarts of hard liquor a day", and that's been my experience too....That made me not worry about it as much and psychologically just made it easier....

I've spent a lot of time in AA, whether it was court-ordered or by choice....I went almost every day by choice for three years, although alcohol wasn't my drug of choice, I just didn't like NA all that much....I've sat through probably thousands of AA stories over the years, and I really don't remember ever hearing of even heavy beer drinkers going through DTs....Sleeplessness and anxiety, but not full-blown alcohol WD...not to say it's impossible, but I think it's safe to say that it's highly unlikely you'll suffer seizures from withdrawing from 8 beers over the course of 4-5 months....that's not to say it will be easy...

Replacing the benzos with beer...well that's the one thing that would make me even think there's a likelihood of it happening...

Anxiety and panic can make everything 10x worse...If you're ODing or freaking out on speed or cocaine and you end up in the ER, they give you benzos...Benzos don't slow your heart-rate down or help regulate it...but they do calm you down and help you to relax your muscles and slow your racing thoughts, which in turn does help with your heart...if you're not too far gone...I guess the point I'm attempting to make is, worrying about something can make it manifest physically in some ways....If you were right on the edge in mild Alc. WD and you had a panic attack, it could almost turn it into moderate WD in a sense...

As far as safety goes, you're gonna know if you're in trouble...in which case, all you have to do is have 1 or 2 drinks and get yourself to the nearest detox or hospital, that's the one good thing about alcohol...You don't have to come up with 100 dollars and hunt down your drug dealer while you're in WD!
 
Availability is as much a curse as a gift.
Ive known many alcoholics in my short life and their addictions were hugely distressing and tragic to witness.
I know that all addictions (to any drug) are bad news but alcohol (along with a few other substances) is in a special class of horrible when it comes to the longterm damage it does not only to the user but to their loved ones.
Watching the personality and everything you love about a person destroyed by alcohol is a terrible experience that i wouldnt wish on anyone.
I dont think theres anything wrong with enjoying a drink in moderation but i think its important to remember that it doesnt matter if you drink beer or vodka, alcohol is still the active drug regardless of the flavor and to be safe with your use you have to be honest with yourself about it.
 
Availability is as much a curse as a gift.
Ive known many alcoholics in my short life and their addictions were hugely distressing and tragic to witness.
I know that all addictions (to any drug) are bad news but alcohol (along with a few other substances) is in a special class of horrible when it comes to the longterm damage it does not only to the user but to their loved ones.
Watching the personality and everything you love about a person destroyed by alcohol is a terrible experience that i wouldnt wish on anyone.
I dont think theres anything wrong with enjoying a drink in moderation but i think its important to remember that it doesnt matter if you drink beer or vodka, alcohol is still the active drug regardless of the flavor and to be safe with your use you have to be honest with yourself about it.

Yeah availability and societies overall accepting attitude for alcohol make it very dangerous. It is one of the most brutal drugs on the body. I'm talking direct effects from the consumption of the substance itself, not indirect effects like lack of hygiene and poor diet, etc.
 
When I was in rehab for oxys, the people who were the worst off weren't the opiate addicts... Oh no. The worst off were the people detoxing from alcohol... By far. And keep this in mind... If you are already worried about becoming an alcoholic, then you probably already know that you're drinking too much too frequently... I used to make the excuse that Europeans have always consumed alcohol with every meal, and they are ok, but then I did some research and found out that the alcohol they consumed back in the day was very mild... 2-3% alcohol... And alcoholism over there is totally a thing... Who knew? Haha.

Also, this is very important, there's only two substances on earth that I know of that can kill you from WDing from it... Alcohol and Benzos... Sounds like you traded one problem for another, but now you've picked a substance that's easily and readily available, and cheap... You have to watch people drink around you at all events, and restaurants... And you have to walk past the beer n wine section of your grocery store every time you go to buy food... The only other addiction I could think of that was harder to tame is a food addiction cause you have to eat to survive... You can't go without food, right?

Anyways... You know what you have to do. Get'er done. Good luck.
 
I have a reason to post here and I will get to it but first some comments.

I agree. Lots of alcohol is needed to get addicted.
I have known people who would tell you that their XX cans of beer a day turned them into alcoholics but it was when they started drinking wine and stronger stuff that they went over the edge.

I use beer to get un-addicted. When I have had a binge then I start with like a beer or 2 every hour for the 24 hours (tapering) and then stretch it out on progressive days to get it to zero. And it is not pretty. The nights are tough. Usually nights with some trembling and cold sweats. But after 2/3 days it is over.

Getting re-hooked to alcohol with beer is pretty much impossible for me.

My hard alcohol binges were usually on biz trips out of town with severe work loads or dead lines. When I flew back home then I would have to taper off. Some people mentioned that drinking hard alcohol early in the day is what tipped them over the edge. I think there may be some truth to this. I think that high levels via hard alcohol through the day and night are necessary for me to get re-addicted.

The weird thing is that now I seem to be able to get hooked in like 5 days. I will be fine and drinking a few beers per week and then like when the holidays come, I will buy a huge bottle of Makers Mark (or 2) and after a several days I hit the point where I have to go thru a whole taper-off thing and feel like I am withdrawing. This is not a hang over. Know quite well what hang overs are and really do not get them anymore since I gave up wine completely.

Comments?

Also I am getting some like skin problems now when I go on a binge. Yeah I know, everything points to me needing to quit. Just curious if anyone else has these problems?

PP
 
With the amount and frequency of your drinking, i would say that your lucky not to be experiencing worse WD symptoms!
Alcohol WD is every bit and bad as benzo WD. Including all the really nasty symptoms like shakes, panic attacks, musclular pain and seizures.

No it's not, lol. Benzo wd is so much worse, it can go on for years. Improvement is extremely slow. Can you feel as bad from acute alcohol WD as benzo? I'm sure, but the alcohol WD is gonna be over much, much sooner. There is no comparison.

Benzos also produce severe and long lasting withdrawals at much lower doses than benzos. For example, I have been drinking about 2 beers a night most nights for the past couple of years. When I stop I do have minor withdrawals, like a hard time falling asleep, a little anxiety and a "dull" feeling. However this is usually over within a few days, a week tops.

Now compare that to someone taking a low dose of benzo like 1 mg of klonopin per day. They can literally suffer severe and ongoing withdrawal symptoms from this small dosage. When I withdrawing from benzos I talked to many people on even lower doses like .5 mg of xanax per day who were having extreme problems after stopping. Alcohol withdrawal is not even in the same ballpark as benzo, except in the acute phase for severe alcoholics. Then alcohol withdrawal can indeed be very bad.
 
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