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Opioids How badly will I kick? (kratom)

GetMeOutOfThisCRAP

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
1,925
First I'll start out with just tiny bit of background of my usage so people can answer more accurately: I was addicted to pain relief meds for 2 years--not a heavy user by means but 30-60 mgs of oxycodone towards the end of this journey. I got past a moderate withdrawal and the depression was still severe even 4 months after that lovely experience.. So back in September I started eating kratom regularly and it cured the post-kicking depression like a godsend. Started at 5-8 grams daily and that rose to 15-20 grams after about 4 months. Kratom has helped saved many lives but lately it's stealing my energy and the cost is really adding up as my tolerance grows. I'd like to finally be done with this miserable lifestyle that started with harder opiates. I've gone through so many depressive episodes because of the use of kratom/oxy turning me into a hermit and not allowing me to really enjoy life to the fullest. My life was considerately better when I made the switch to kratom but it's catching up with me again like how oxycodone did at the end of that addiction and causing more harm than good within my life. I'm tired of waking up sick and chained down to a substance like it's a god and I'd like to be totally done with opiates. Kratom was a far better antidepressant than the latter but it's making me depressed at this point and stopped working as such. I was in a serious relationship and it felt guilty sneaking around having to use.

However, I just remember how miserable I was getting off pain medication and I really don't know how comparable kratom withdrawal is to harder substances and what the timeline is. I have ativan and I'm trying to taper off kratom rather than quit cold turkey.. if that actually helps. How bad is the depression when coming off kratom though as opposed to harder opiates? That really is the worst symptom for me. I've just been afraid to take the plunge and this summer is really the best time to kick. Bottom line is kratom doesn't feel good anymore even when I take huger doses so I have to face the consequences. Some of my best life experiences have been on oxy/kratom but I can't even remember them because of the fog that comes with the substances. Thanks!
 
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Kratom WD can feel just like regular opiates when you stop it abruptly. If you dont want to go into FULL withdrawals, Id personally do a taper, over a week or two. Ive did that several times and its definitely helped.

But, if you dont want to taper... It can/will feel just as bad as oxycodone (roughly). Some people think kratom is a cure-all... which it does an AMAZINGLY good job getting people off hard opiates... but there is a downside, the WDs can be just as bad. (I know, ive gone through it several times). But the "depression" part wasnt as bad though, so you might be good on that.

Good luck. Like I said, this is just my experience with Kratom WDs.
 
Thank you chris. Would I feel much of a WD if I tapered down slowly? Is it like pharmaceuticals where even dropping 10 mg in doses results in feeling crappy obviously so? And what was your usage like?
 
You might feel it some, but it definitely wont be as bad as cold turkey. It might take a little longer, but id rather have less WDs (so I can actually function) for a longer time vs. horrible WDs for a shorter time. (this is just me)

Doctors are taught to taper their patients off opiates at 10% of their "dose" a week. You can do it this way, but it will take several weeks (about 10 weeks for you, at that dose). If you think you can do it faster, depending on how you're feeling... You can definitely do so (thats what im doing). I was taking about 20mg as well.

For example, you were on about 20mg a day. You'd be on that for a week and then take 18mg the next week and then 16mg the week after, etc. etc.

I was using heroin, now im using kratom (to come off that) and tapering that down. My WDs have been hardly there. My main symptoms were chills, sweating and hot/cold flashes (but those are almost gone).
 
In theory it shouldn't be too severe, but sensitivity to withdrawal syndromes vary by person (I find my sensitivity to withdrawal increases with age).

Tapering should help significantly, and I'd recommend using large doses of l-theanine (400mg to 800mg) to combat the anxiety/depression and aid in sleep. Black seed oil (nigella sativa) will also help as it possesses weak opioid-like properties.

Considering yourself lucky that you are only addicted to lowish doses of kratom, and if tapered to even lower doses, you only face rather minor withdrawal symptoms (though of course there will still remain the unresolved factors that led you to use these drugs in the first place).

Kratom is a short to intermediate acting partial agonist, which makes it an attractive candidate to withdraw from. It's complex pharmacology does however reduce this attractiveness, since you are withdrawing from its multiple mechanisms of action. Still, if I had to withdraw from any opioid, it would be a short to intermediate acting partial agonist...
 
"lately it's stealing my energy and the cost is really adding up as my tolerance grows"

GetmeOutofThisCrap if this happens with other opioid's? But it is the reason I stopped my daily habit to this herb periodically. Like it is self limiting.

It is the only one I ever got addicted to, I have little exp with other opiods in general. But after some tapering, going from a lot to 4/ 3 normal size dosage's the WD's were very bearable. Like a mild Flu. And passed quickly, the PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome) was there, and the main problem imo. But they were more manageable as with my other big addiction. GHB/ GBL.
 
Hi GetmeOutofThisCrap,

If all you are addicted to, is Kratom it time to be a warrior. You are at the end of the tunnel and you are circling around getting more pain then success with Kratom. Your fear from past withdrawal should not hold you back, this time is a wicker drug and the high is not so amazing. At your point i would cut smart for a week then only use some small doses against PAWS.

Remember what you are fighting for, being clean is a hell of a good feeling!
 
Thanks for the support and I'm glad that my withdrawals will not be as bad (planning to get completely off it in a couple of days). The thing that's not often talked about is how much opiates even benign ones like kratom benefit our lives. Most opiate addicts struggle with chronic pain, depression, or anxiety. The hardest part is adjusting back to the way life used to be. I'll post in a little bit after I'm totally off everything.

I have struggled with adderall addiction--strangely it is the only other substance I have found to be addicting. As well as oxy but that is well in the past at this time. Anything that beats depression and gives me confidence has been addictive in my experience. However adderall compared to the consequences of opiate addiction is not even comparable imo.
 
Like Pele practicing from 100 yards! jk good luck, my story is that I used bupe to kick kratom, found it very easy. A year later I am taking 2 tsp a day, but I know how easy it is...I just up my Sub dose and voila! Good luck.
 
I also wonder what I'm setting myself up for if I have to go off as I'm on 18 grams per day currently. I don't really care as long as it doesn't get scheduled tho. lol
 
Cam u get some pregabalin or gabapentin? Since u already have some benzos, they will make it as pain free as possible if u cold turkey....just don't take for more than a week max


Bwwt od luck brother
 
I'll be following this, keep us updated on the WD process. I'm considering taking a break from kratom myself. How much kratom do you take daily? About 20g?
 
IMO much depends on one's motivation for taking Kratom. If one goes into using for a legitimate purpose, such as pain--psychological or physical pain--then tapering down is much easier if there is confidence that that pain has been addressed, or will be addressed, through other or more conventional means. Attitude and intention have a lot to do with results. However, if one's use of kratom is for the purposes of getting high, the WD may be somewhat more difficult. Getting high also should be addressed from a perspective of intention. Drug use over the centuries has many motives behind it; the spectrum may include religious use or escape from the burdens of daily responsibilities and stress. (The two latter being part and parcel of daily life in most of the world.) So, the question we should put to the WD issue is: "What is the user returning to?" Is the user returning to her depression due to unresolved issues? Is the user returning to a plan of action for dealing with depression, plans such as mindfulness training? What is the purpose or motives for stopping and the WD in the first place and what is in store for the user after WD? These are important questions for the user to consider. Don't you agree?
 
Let me be quick to add this to my reply above. After using for a long while, users often develop the mistaken notion that the substance is causing them the problems they are currently experiencing. This may be most evident when use is tied to psychological issues such as anxiety or depression as well as a general lethargy or stress encountered in daily life. Many of us were simply not prepared for life or suffered damage in childhood or we may not have dealt with the habits of mind that landed us in a vulnerable place where getting high offered relief. However, as users come to know, the initial effects of substances simply become less than helpful in dealing with life's challenges. We are simply not skilled enough to deal with life as it presents. So, getting high is a blessing--at first. If one is going to withdraw from use, then it is always advisable to have something to hold to, a "mind" or mind/body practice of some sort that will provide the skills necessary to deal with life as it comes in those difficult moments when things are not going as expected. Skills must be at hand for each moment that arises in a challenging manner. Staying present in a skillful manner makes all the difference--as I'm sure many of us have come to realize. One last comment, while high, we who use, may benefit by taking note of what gives rise to our difficulties and what we are doing differently when high. Sometimes we see that when high our perceptions change and our reactions are actually skillful. Yet, we don't take from these moments lessons that may reveal what we were doing or not doing when straight. Being high may offer us an opportunity to recognize some of the unskillful habits of mind and body that were getting us into trouble when straight. When straight our bad habits of perception and actions that follow simply let loose and have their way. Getting high may actually provide the opportunity to reveal the bad habits that are more easily rejected while high. Even getting high may prove useful for eventually getting straight.
 
Serious question ....what is Kratom? I’ve not ever heard of it
Its a plant that you can make tea's out of (or taken in capsules). It has a partial affinity to opiate receptors (even though its not technically an opiate), which can help with pain. Its legal mostly everywhere (in some states its banned). At least in the United States.
 
At 10 g a day, so not quite a jump. Just more tired than normal but not noticing much yet.

Oxy high = stimulant euphoria. Keeps me awake and energized and more outgoing. Gives me the ability to enjoy anything i'm doing at all.

Kratom high = sleepy euphoria. More of a good mood drug though as opposed to euphoric in my opinion. It just held me from being sick and PAWs from quitting oxy after 2 years. I felt forced to take it in a way so far because life was really hard to adjust to so quickly without any opiates at all.

So the highs are meaningful but it's not to dull mental or physical pain personally. I'm not super addicted to kratom like heavier users on this board who take 20 g in one sitting, but it's relaxing and again I did feel required to take it to feel "normal" after long term withdrawal symptoms. My symptoms lasted way longer than a normal person quitting oxy. It was frustrating beyond belief to keep waking up for several months feeling mentally down and there's a plateau when you quit pharmaceuticals that's not often mentioned where you can't enjoy much of life at all--and this lasted more than 4 months for me. I caved in when I started eating kratom and instantly noticed my personality becoming level again. This could be because I was eating those legendary M-boxed blue 30 mg roxies at the end and those were insanely strong.

Quitting heroin and oxy with the use of kratom then tapering down the kratom until you're sober is an easier way to do it than cold turkey. But of course in heavier cases of abusing heroin and oxy the amount of kratom you will need to take will need to be way more than 15-20 grams a day probably. This can get costly..
 
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I couldn’t agree more as far as the Waking up day after day feeling as though I had nothing good to live for after coming off of oxy use
For 3 years due to me disease and this was literally daily for about 4-5 months. Not to mention the almost electrical changes
My brain went through and nerve changes. Coming off of of oxy was the most brutal of the opiates but then I’ve never used heroin because I’ve never been interested in these drugs to get high. I’ve had to start them due to my chronic disease and will probably always have to. It’s just about, for me, overcoming the realization that they absolutely affect my mental medium in life, they control my happy thoughts as well As my unhappy thoughts and I can’t describe enough how much I loathe that reality. But on the flip side I can walk on them they help with the pain from my joints slipping out of place because let me just say there’s nothing quite like waking up to your arm out if it’s rotator socket and you have to pop it back in or the same with my hips and fingers. It’s all crazy but I really try not to complain because I’m a lucky one and I’m granted life every day and I just want to be thankful for the breath I take and I want to put a smile on my face and live as happy as I can until I can’t and I pray for those out there seriously needing these pain meds
That you make the best out of it and yes the realisation is that our bodies are addicted at
No fault of our own so just keep living and screw the judgemental fucks out there. That’s my motto. I would ask them to walk two steps in my shoes and tell me how
It is and with that I’m gonna go eat my tuna fish sandwich now. Be blessed all!!
 
Oh one more thing I never did mention, after the survival of the unfair OxyContin game and I vowed never again I finally found the time release med Morphine and it’s been a god send so far. Again it’s the pill form and it’s tome release.
 
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