Hormones and MDMA

[indigoaura]

For female drug users, the nuances of the menstrual cycle can have an effect on how drugs impact the body.

For example, dopamine levels are likely to be higher during the first part of the menstrual cycle:

ADHD and PMS: Good Luck! - TotallyADD

Studies suggest that an ADHD brain does not release or reload dopamine effectively, which leads to problems with all of those executive function activities listed above that we need to use on a daily basis.

totallyadd.com

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508121/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508121/

So, theoretically, to get more bang for your buck, it would be ideal to roll in the first half of the menstrual cycle.

Now, I have been active in the thread discussing what is wrong with MDMA today. However, I had not really started to evaluate hormones until recently.

In the early days of my MDMA use (2000-2005), I was a very young woman. I was taking a traditional combined hormone birth control. Specifically, this one: https://www.rxlist.com/estrostep-fe-drug.htm

However, I developed issues with that birth control and around 2005/2006 I switched over to a non-conventional SERM birth control manufactured in India.

Ormeloxifene - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is not that much research about Centchroman/Ormeloxifene because it has never really traveled outside of India or been in use worldwide. However, there is quite a bit of research surrounding a USA manufactured SERM called Tamoxifen.

How similar Ormeloxifene and Tamoxifen are is up for debate. But, they are both selective estrogen re-uptake modulators (SERMs).

However, Tamoxifen has major repercussions in the dopamine system of the brain by inhibiting dopamine, and blocking dopamine transporters.

Tamoxifen and its active metabolites inhibit dopamine transporter function independently of the estrogen receptors - PubMed

As one of the primary mechanisms by which dopamine signaling is regulated, the dopamine transporter (DAT) is an attractive pharmacological target for the treatment of diseases based in dopaminergic dysfunction. In this work we demonstrate for the first time that the commonly prescribed breast...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Tamoxifen Directly Interacts with the Dopamine Transporter

The selective estrogen receptor modulator tamoxifen increases extracellular dopamine in vivo and acts as a neuroprotectant in models of dopamine neurotoxicity. We investigated the effect of tamoxifen on dopamine transporter (DAT)–mediated dopamine uptake, dopamine efflux, and [3H]WIN 35,428...

jpet.aspetjournals.org

Is Ormeloxifene doing something similar with my dopamine levels and receptors?

If so, could this significantly alter the way that my brain processes MDMA?

Since part of MDMA's "rush" is related to simultaneous dopamine and serotonin release, what would happen if that dopamine release was curbed? What if dopamine transporters were blocked by the SERM?

MDMA Neurochemistry Slideshow | DanceSafe

This is Your Brain on Ecstasy ^ Really! An MDMA Neurochemistry Slideshow © Copyright 1998-2023, Emanuel Sferios Traduit en français par Alexandre Girard. (French Translation) This slide show will explain the effects of MDMA on your brain. The effects of a normal dose of MDMA last from four to...

dancesafe.org

I have just started to ponder all of these questions in depth after a test showed I have very low dopamine levels overall.

I am curious if anyone here in the BL community has expertise in the areas of hormones, dopamine, and MDMA use. I am also curious to hear from other women regarding how their birth control use seemed to impact their drug experiences.

 

[Phobos]

However, Tamoxifen has major repercussions in the dopamine system of the brain by inhibiting dopamine, and blocking dopamine transporters.

What Tamoxifen does is increasing the dopamine levels by inhibiting uptake, not decreasing it.

Depending on the mechanism by which it does this, it might boost or decrease the MDMA induced dopamine level increase.

 

[Needhelp123]

Testing dopamine in the brain isn’t possible, so your test in invalid

 

[indigoaura]

The test that was done was called a Dutch test, and it tested the dopamine metabolite found in urine.

 

[AutoTripper]

Hey I just replied to you in the other thread, then realised it would be better here. But my tablet is temperamental and often won't let me copy and paste on a certain open tab until I close it down and open another one. So I had to poster message and copy and a erase to post here:


I wonder if maybe your own nausea is partly related to hormones? It must altsr things in the days afterwards.

Speaking of hormones, I did practice urine therapy for 2 years 2010-2012. I had to stop due to foolishly attempting a long unsupervised fast, managed 7 days and nights but it was a really bad idea and should not have gone longer than 3 days.

It massively lowered my energy and especially my immunity and probably caused my Borrelia bacteria infection the root cause of my lyme disease to get a stronger hold in my nervous system because things have never been the same since then (the actual infection itself was cleared fully 2 years ago but leaves behind the condition, kind of like Germany after the war.). The point here- as a result I developed chronic urinary infections and there has been a permanent immune Weakness in that area and I have had at least one usually to infections in my urinary system ever since.

But the urine therapy was absolutely amazing when I could practice now I only had one ounce each morning of midstream urine but another important and excellent aspect of the therapy is you massage the rest of your morning urine into your face and neck.

Apart from being the most amazing skin remedy on earth and the root source for all of the top beauty model skin creams and products, unbeknown to many, morning urine in particular is packed full of really beneficial hormones which are manufactured during our sleep according to our bodies need, as well as excess hormones which could not be used completely first time around as well as lots of other beneficial substances like antibodies amino acids and enzymes tailored for your own specific requirements at the time.

Drinking the midstream morning urine and massaging the rest is an excellent way of supporting the body with hormones naturally.
I'm sure you could just massage the urine and get tremendous benefits from hormone therapy that way, not to mention the healthier more vibrant glowing skin.

Okay just thought I would mention it. I also noticed an incredible synergy between urine therapy and LSD. Both via recycling, and fantastic potentiation and boost as a result of the beneficial hormones. The urine therapy also massively supported and strengthened the psyche and emotions and mindset and took all anxiety and edginess away. During trips, I massaged all my urine into face and neck. It continually perked up and strengthened my trips, gave me energy, and had a very calming effect.

I imagine it would have a similar positive effect with MDMA without obviously you would then be talking about re dosing many hours after the experience at least a little. I'm sure I would probably still do it anyway if I could for a synergistic effect and overall boost to body and mind.

 

[indigoaura]

@AutoTripper I don't think I would be comfortable with that. The test that I did involve submitting dried urine to a laboratory for analysis, not any kind of personal use of the urine. I had another friend who did something similar to you, but I don't think I could get over the gross factor personally.

Also, I am not currently looking to mess with my own hormones, as it would possibly render my birth control less effective.

I am just curious if anyone out there knows more about how hormones and dopamine interplay, specifically in regards to SERM medications.

 

[Swim15]

This doesn’t necessarily answer it but I think the impact would minimal at most, don’t see really any interaction happening. Even if there was, I don’t think anyone could quantify it.

I’m a male athlete and use SERMs along with steroids (you may think about posting this up in PEDs) and can’t think of times I’ve had SERMs in my system when rolling but I’m sure I have.

Nolva is going to act as a pseudoestrogen iirc - acts as an estrogen in certain tissues and competitively inhibits in other tissues. Whether or not e2 levels impact rolling, and to what extent, is probably the root of the question.

Like I said, I think interaction would be minimal and, more so, unquantifiable but the serotogenic system is the one I’d be more worried about as opposed to dopamine. Here is an article that talks a little about the topic although reliability is debatable and I’d probably look into the claims if I were you even though they do seem to align with what I’ve generally read before -

Why Molly May Be More Dangerous and Deadly If You're a Woman

Popping molly is more complicated than you think—especially when you're a girl.

www.google.com

“The changing levels of oestrogen and progesterone that women experience during their menstrual cycle can affect neurotransmitter systems, like the serotonin system. This year, scientists published the results of a study where they gave MDMA to male rats, female rats, and male and female rats which had their testicles and ovaries removed. They found the drug had the strongest effect on female rats with an intact reproductive system, concluding that "the increased sensitivity of the females can be explained by an increased reactivity of the serotonin system due to the effect of ovarian hormones." Research has also shown that the effects of other stimulants, like cocaine, vary in women because of changes in the levels of female hormones during the menstrual cycle. For example, you're potentially more sensitive to amphetamines just before ovulation. This suggests that not only do women react differently to some drugs than men, they might also react differently depending on whether they're on their period or not.”

 

[indigoaura]

Thanks @Swim15! Great read, and so was this article: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/exkzj4/why-are-young-british-girls-dying-from-mdma

I never thought that SERMs may be used as part of a fitness routine. Fascinating.

I guess, overall, I am just wondering if the shift in my choice of birth control could have had more of an impact on the effects of MDMA than I assumed, especially after 13 years of SERM use. One article I read about Tamoxifen and dopamine indicated that changes may occur that are very difficult to reverse. I never knew about the potential impact on neurotransmitters when I started using the SERM, or I would have re-considered.

 

[indigoaura]

Just found this:

Tamoxifen

Tamoxifen has a complex set of metabolic pathways, but CYP2D6 is primarily responsible for the production of its active metabolite. Growing evidence suggests that breast cancer patients with low CYP2D6 activity do not respond as well to tamoxifen therapy and are more likely to have cancer relapse. Thus, assessing the CYP2D6 genotype for patients taking tamoxifen in order to identify those with low activity is of growing interest. For the same reason, it also would be prudent to avoid CYP2D6 inhibitors in patients taking tamoxifen.

Get to Know an Enzyme: CYP2D6

The enzyme CYP2D6 affects the metabolism of many drugs, and its effect is altered by genetic variability.

www.pharmacytimes.com