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High potency LSH & penniclavine containing morning glory seeds fresh off the vine

DrumTripper

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Thanks again, @tregar - this is excellent work and very appreciated.
More light shining needs to happen for this compound(s).
I really found the info about ALD-52 being les pyretogenic very interesting. If Sandoz concluded this, and a few other findings regarding how it compares with LSD-25, then these differences have at least the potential to manifest in trip experience and/or side effect variances.
Anyway, just - THANKS!
:)
 

tregar

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Thank you Drum Tripper. I will going on vacation for now, and leave this thread as is. Your support and comments and future dreams are greatly appreciated my friend.

DrumTripper said:
Thanks again, @tregar - this is excellent work and very appreciated.
More light shining needs to happen for this compound(s).
I really found the info about ALD-52 being les pyretogenic very interesting. If Sandoz concluded this, and a few other findings regarding how it compares with LSD-25, then these differences have at least the potential to manifest in trip experience and/or side effect variances. Anyway, just - THANKS!
Final tips.

If you are limited on space, you can plant heavenly blue morning glory seeds in a bed of miracle grow garden soil (w/ added dried cow manure compost & some perlite mixed in from garden store) in a large wide clay pot, with a trellis put into the pot to support the fast climbing snakevines. I actually did it this way when I moved again into a brand new house, and kept all the clay pots sitting atop 1 foot x 1 foot square bricks to the side of the outdoor patio, so that they only got morning sun, very beautiful. You can find the very tall trelliss that fit inside the clay pots at your local garden stores.

Fed them 1 gallon of watering can with spout containing 1 tablespoon of miracle grow mixed just once a month, and at the beginning of planting. This I read would keep the lysergic acid amide levels high in the plant which eventually all transferred into the seed embryo's found in the pods when picked at the end of the fall season. Feeding only occasionally like this kept the foliage down, and the flowers large, they were monstrous. When I opened up the dried pods in the fall and picked the ever so slightly un-ripe black seeds, I could detect the faint smell of acetaldehyde given off the seeds when they were ground. The seeds are extremely potent when picked fresh.

Dreamed the seeds right off the vine (vacuum packed all the extra black heavenly blue MG fresh seeds in food saver bags and froze them to keep their original freshly picked high potency) at least 5 times, 3 of those using the dream recipe in this thread, and those 3 dream experiences were extraordinary...I had found the 1992 adducts paper doing hours of research one afternoon, and that's when I knew that I had stumbled upon something remarkable...and used the details from the study to transform the high levels of LSH and LSA ergolines/indole structures in the seeds into molecules which were intensified or amplified in their psychedelic effects & euphoria....trips were also energizing, not sedating.

Reading the book "Sacred Mushrooms of the goddess, by prof Carl AP Ruck" and "Road to Eleusis" by Hofmann, Wasson & Ruck gave me the additional idea of adding mint/peppermint in the recipe (just like the priest at Eleusis were know to add in to their sacred potion) along with the shot of high acetaldehyde Sherry wine (my idea from the adducts paper). Later in 2005 Krystle Cole (a former goth stripper from Kansas, who fell in love with LSD chemist Todd Skinner in 2000) describes her dream experiences in the book "Lysergic" with "ergot wine". Supposedly Todd had prepared 6 jugs of the ergot wine many years beforehand, and stored them all in the abandoned underground missile silo they lived in. She reports seeing constantly floating hieroglyphic symbols floating in a circle around Todd's head.

Now you know the story of how this all came about. When I experienced the three incredible dreams (after comparing them to my other normal fresh MG experiences) I knew I had accidentally stumbled upon something personally fascinating imho, and posted the dream on the now defunct Lycaeum forum long ago.

The recipe is given above along with how long the solution needs to sit in the fridge (a few hours to guarantee 100% conversion just like the study) for the acetadehyde adducts to form on the bottom NH group of the indole on ergoline/indole LSH and LSA structures to form the new 1-acetaldehyde LSH and 1-acetaldehyde LSA, forming new molecules which look very similar to what ALD-52 looks like at the bottom of the NH group indole as well.

ALD-52 is a cousin of LSD shown by Sandoz to have less side effects while achieving a stronger more relaxed trip, with twice the anti-serotonin properties of LSD, and the more anti-serotonin, the more stimulating, which may help to explain why the trips resulting from the recipe's transformed ergoline molecules result in very visual & euphoric psychedelic trips which are energizing and not sedating. You can view ALD-52 sample trips at Erowid's vault. However, our transformed mystery molecules have one more hydrogen on the group as compared to the 43 g/mol of ALD-52's acetyl vs 44 g/mol of our molecule's acetaldehyde adduct, which may help even more with the resulting energizing trip vs sedating trip as with typical normal LSA saturated solutions.

However, the recipe calls for use of morning glory seeds in dreams which contain high levels of LSH, we know from the 2014 Paulke study that HBWR contains no LSH, but rather high levels of LSA/iso-LSA (83%) and around 17% ergometrine, which will transform to the 1-acetaldehyde versions of themselves as well, but ergometrine is not as strong as LSH and results in some cramping and side effects, ergometrine levels are extremely low in MG seeds in comparison.

I actually had the chance in dreams to try ALD-52 around 10 years ago twice, and the blotter had diagrams of the ALD-52 molecule on the back of the blotter, and both times I found the high dosage trips I experienced to be PROFOUNDLY VISUAL, I remember looking at my wife's face and seeing it covered & overlayed with colored hieroglyphic symbols. The trip was very strong visually and yet I found it relaxed and potently humorous, I laughed for at least an hour watching episodes of "Funny or die" at the time.

I also remember seeing a group of Indian Shaman's sitting in a circle floating in mid-air when I walked into the bedroom, the trips blew me away with their potency and visuals...I miss ALD-52, but the recipe above will transform the morning glory seed's LSH and LSA into similar molecules at least at the bottom indole NH group, which helps significantly in achieving a much visually stronger trip, and sounds are amplified and music sounds absolutely heavenly, strong audio heightening qualities, the trips is very euphoric as well, also stimulating yet relaxed.

Thread describes recipe with pics & studies here staring on page 3 (post #41):

hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94309&p=3
 
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tregar

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I have re-named this thread "Alchemy conversion of LSH & LSA in morning glory to 1-acetaldehyde LSH & LSA" supported by 1992 adducts paper and 2016 Polish morning glory paper.

500ml ph=4 acidified spring water (prevents LSH from re-arranging to LSA in neutral water) containing filtered morning glory seed mush + one shot (30ml) of high acetaldehyde sherry (contains 10mg natural acetaldehyde) and 2 tablespoons fresh Bigelow leaf mint/peppermint fresh from foil chilled spring water made tea (contains 2mg natural acetaldehyde) w/or without 5 drops peppermint extract (contains avg 2mg acetaldehyde) and allowed to sit for 3 hours in fridge w/swirling once per hour for new 1-acetaldehyde LSH & 1-acetaldehyde LSA to form with 100% conversion according to adducts paper.

Note: this converts the high levels of LSH and LSA in MG seeds to 1-acetaldehyde LSH & LSA, by adduction of acetaldehyde to NH group indole on bottom of ergoline LSH/LSA ring indole.

Note how close the mystery molecule hypothetically formed is to looking like ALD-52 at the bottom indole NH group:

1) acetyl added to LSD at the bottom indole NH group to form ALD-52, acetyl = C2 H3 O, molar mass = 43 g/mol

2) acetaldehyde adducted to bottom indole NH group on LSH & LSA, acetaldehyde = C2 H4 O, molar mass = 44 g/mol

However, our transformed mystery molecules have one more hydrogen on the group as compared to the 43 g/mol of ALD-52's acetyl vs 44 g/mol of our molecule's acetaldehyde adduct, which may help even more with the resulting energizing trip vs sedating trip as with typical normal LSA saturated solutions.

Note: the recipe calls for use of morning glory seeds in dreams which contain high levels of LSH, we know from the 2014 Paulke forensics study that HBWR contains no LSH, but rather high levels of LSA/iso-LSA (83%) and around 17% ergometrine, which will transform to the 1-acetaldehyde versions of themselves as well, but ergometrine is not as strong as LSH. LSH is similar to LAE-32 active at 1.5mg in human experiments in TIHKAL, shown to be very "LSD like". Ergometrine in HBWR results in some cramping & vasoconstriction and side effects, ergometrine levels are extremely low in MG seeds in comparison.

All based on the studies above and mint which we know was added to the sacred entheogenic potion the priest administered. Read more about mint addition in the books "Road to Eleusis" by Hofmann, Wasson & prof Ruck and "Sacred mushrooms of the goddess, secrets of Eleusis" by prof Ruck...who describe the rites held at Eleusis for initiates in ancient Greece for over 2,000 years believed to be propelled by the effects of a powerful psychoactive potion into revelatory mind states with profound spiritual and intellectual ramifications. Plato, Socrates and a host of other philosophers drank the sacred entheogenic brew kept secret by the priest at Eleusis. Men, women and even slaves were allowed initiation.
 
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tregar

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Alchemy conversion of LSH & LSA in morning glory to 1-acetaldehyde LSH & LSA

p.s. Have had 2 years of University Chemistry & many years of chem studies beyond that.

My other chemist friend just said the following, he backs up my argument after reading the studies....

downwardsfromzero:
2) acetaldehyde adducted to bottom indole NH group on LSH & LSA, acetaldehyde = C2 H4 O, molar mass = 44 g/mol.
The acetaldehyde adduct would be C2H5O, as CH3COH attached at the indolic nitrogen - another 1-hydroxyethyl group, just like in LSH. From what you describe, this seems like an argument for soaking one's N¹-unsubstituted lysergamides in cold peppermint sherry for a while before consumption. Would this also include tryptamines such as DMT-containing potions for oral consumption, one might wonder? And what about psiloc(yb)in?

As I've mentioned, my most successful plant-derived lysergamide experience - in dreams, of course - albeit with HBWR, coincided with intake of a fairly large quantity of brandy which, in all likelihood, produced a significant level of acetaldehyde within my body, exposing the plant lysergamides to the correct conditions (as reported in the Austin & Fraenkel-Conrat PNAS paper) within my stomach for the putative 1-(1-hydroxyethyl) or, rather, it seems, the 1-(1-ethoxyethyl) derivative to be formed. In this case, the effects were clearly stimulating, unlike the sedative effects usually reported for HBWR. I see that brandy weighs in fairly well on the acetaldehyde content scale as well, btw (post #17)

Looking at the PNAS paper, and the molecular structure "indole after p8441", what we appear to get is a 1-(1-ethoxyethyl)indole, with an ethyl group on the oxygen atom. This would be more lipophilic than the 1-(1-hydroxyethyl) derivative, as would, incidentally, the cinnamaldehyde adduct proposed by 69ron. It is only with the combination of both ethanol and acetaldehyde that we get a stable product. It would seem likely that under mildly acidic conditions ethanol and cinnamaldehyde (or, we might also surmise, any other sufficiently stable, sterically unhindered aldehyde) would also form a stable adduct. The systematic naming starts to get a bit horrible, but here goes: 1-(3-phenyl-1-ethyoxyprop-2-en-1-yl)indole derivatives. Now have a cookie.

And isovaleraldehyde would lead to the production of a 1-(1-ethoxy-3-methyl-1-butyl)indole derivative under this scheme. That'll have to do for now as I need to sleep. [EDIT: also of interest, we see the following: "Reaction mixtures were also prepared using 1-, 3-, and 4-carbon-chain aldehydes and alcohols. After 24 hr of reaction at ambient temperature, these alternative mixtures were analyzed on the same HPLC system. Reaction products (data not shown) were detected in all cases, except when the aldehyde was formaldehyde, and product retention time increased along with the length of the reagents' carbon chains. The yields decreased with increasing alcohol and aldehyde chain length (methanol/acetaldehyde - butanol/butyraldehyde)."]
 
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tregar

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Interesting that downwardsfromzero also found it stimulating in dreams and not sedating.

This on-line report by "u" echoes my own opinion of my own 2 dream experiences over a decade ago with ALD-52 as well "HIGHLY underestimated ALD 52". This is shown in order to relay a better understanding of similar qualities inherent to the hypothetical 1-acetaldehyde LSH. Again, LSH is found in high amounts in morning glory seeds (3x higher in seeds direct from grower vs retail) along with penniclavine (both CNS stimulants), but LSH is not found in HBWR, only LSA/iso-lsa (83%) and ergometrine (17%). LSA appears to be a breakdown product of LSH in the Shamanic mg seeds.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/4yn8ou hxxps://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/4yn8ou/highly_underestimated_ald52/

Highly visual & aesthetic, relaxed yet stimulating...actually had the chance in dreams to try ALD-52 around 10 years ago twice, and the blotter had diagrams of the ALD-52 molecule on the back of the blotter, and both times found the 200ug trips experienced in dreams to be PROFOUNDLY VISUAL, remember looking at a living woman's face and seeing it covered & overlayed with colored hieroglyphic symbols. The trip was very strong visually and yet found it relaxed and potently humorous, laughed for at least an hour watching episodes of "Funny or die" at the time.

Also remember seeing a group of Indian Shaman's sitting in a circle floating in mid-air when I walked into the bedroom, potent visuals...miss ALD-52, but the recipe above will transform the morning glory seed's LSH and LSA into similar molecules at least at the bottom indole NH group, which helps significantly in achieving a visually strong trip, sounds are amplified and music heavenly, strong audio heightening qualities, euphoric & stimulating yet relaxed journeys.

Anything longer than around the length of an acetaldehyde molecule (C2 H4 O) attached at the NH indole of the ergoline LSD molecule (especially 1-p-LSD, propionyl = C3 H5 O) may not fit properly into the very specific receptor binding site (as ALD-52 fits, acetyl = C2 H3 O), so cinnamaledehyde (C9 H8 O) and similar very long structures may not have a chance of docking into the receptor site properly.

David E. Nichols reportedly commented on the potential 1P-LSD serotonin receptor binding dynamics:

Quote:
I am sure that the 1-propionyl would also hydrolyze off of an indole, but I don't know whether in vivo conditions would work. In a chemistry lab, you can get off an N-benzoyl, so an N-propionyl will probably come off too. But in the body? I don't know the answer to that. The compound would not be active as the N-propionyl however. The way that LSD docks into the 5-HT2A receptor, the indole NH hydrogen bonds to serine 5.46. With the propionyl, it won't fit into the receptor.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From sedation to --> stimulation & increased visuals, hypothesis:

Harmaline (C13 H14 N2 O) is an example of a betacarboline (class of indole alkaloid compounds) that when it gains 2 hydrogen molecules on it's indole --> transforms into tetrahydroharmine (C13 H16 N2 O), transforming from "sedating dreamy visual harmaline" to "stimulating & visually bright & colorful tetrahydroharmine". Harmaline does a complete 180 degree transformation with the addition of 2 hydrogen molecules on it's indole --> turning from tranquilizing to energizing.

According to a 2012 paper "Various alkaloid profiles in decoctions of Banisteriopsis caapi" by Dr. JC Callaway found in Ref (1) at bottom in wikipedia under the entry for "tetrahydroharmine" large amounts of the energizing & euphoric THH were found in the Ayahuasca brews prepared by the Vegetal groups UDV and Santo Daime.

Dr. Shulgin has said in the "Entheogen Review Journal" that vitamin C acts as a "hydrogen doner"Shocked and when the Santo Daime brew their Ayahuasca with vitamin C for long periods of time, the vitamin C contributes two hydrogens to the harmaline in the brew, converting all the leftover harmaline to tetrahydroharmine. How is that for Alchemy?

In fact, in the above paper, no harmaline was found leftover in the brews prepared by the Santo Daime, their Alchemy brewing process had converted all the leftover harmaline to THH. Page 2 of above paper shows zero mg of harmaline was left in each & every one of the brews. In another study mentioned in the same paper, the "likeness" of the brews transformed into ones with high levels of THH were rated by the members at an all time high, and preferred over brews with harmaline. There was so much THH in their brews according to page 4 of the study, that it was found in a 1:1 ratio with harmine.

This may translate over to LSA as well ie "the sedating qualities" Confused of LSA into "stimulating qualities" Smile like 1-acetaldehyde LSA and an "even more stimulating & visual" version of LSH --> into 1-acetaldehyde LSH.

LSA (C16 H17 N3 O) + acetaldehyde (C2 H4 O) at bottom indole NH group = 1-acetaldehyde LSA
LSH (C18 H21 N3 O) + acetaldehyde (C2 H4 O) at bottom indole NH group = 1-acetaldehyde LSH
LSD (C20 H25 N3 O) + acetal (C2 H3 O) at bottom indole NH group = 1-acetal LSD (C22 H27 N3 O2) or ALD-52

LSA could be transforming from a "sedating" version of itself into a "stimulating" version of itself, and LSH becoming even more stimulating/visual as they both gain double the anti-serotonin properties (just as ALD-52 is 2.1 times the anti-serotonin strength of LSD), just as we know that tetrahydroharmine in caapi is a strong SRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor, strongly anti-serotonin) and thus stimulating like coffee vs sleepy harmaline.

Does THH also become a more visual form of harmaline? many believe so, but in a different way. Psychonaut wiki reports that at doses of 200mg, it has been reported to cause dream-like euphoria, pleasurable tingling sensations/bodily felt high vibrational frequency and an extensive array of psychedelic effects. The literature from Dr. Naranjo (1967) reports visionary qualities at 300mg, defining them as "oneirophrenic" or fantasy & dream-inducing visions. Quote "Other recurrent visual phenomena were a rapid lateral vibration in the field of vision and double or multiple contours in objects, especially when these were in motion or when the subject's eyes turned away from them. Some described lightning-like flashes. With closed eyes, imagery was abundant and most often vivid and bright colored, with a predominance of red-green or blue-orange contrasts. Long dream-like sequences were common with certain themes."

Professor Benny Shanon who took Ayahuasca over 125 times said the visions are completely un-like sleeping dreams and involve instead visions of ancient civilizations, Royalty & people of great Spiritual prominence, mythical & heavenly scenes, animals (especially birds), artwork, grand architecture and palaces, gardens like those seen at Versailles in France, floral scenes, ET's and spaceships, etc.

Researchers believe it is most likely a combination of the small amounts of harmaline (10 to 40mg) in Caapi along with the modest amounts of THH in Caapi (2nd highest ingredient) that are responsible for the Ayahuasca visions, formed even without addition of admixture leaf, which is said by the Shaman's to add brightness and color to the visions formed by the Caapi, which is considered "Ayahuasca" by the Shamans whether without or with the admixture leaf added.

Will LSA & LSH become more visual forms of themselves as the 1-acetadehyde versions? definitely believe so! based on dream experiences comparing recipe enhanced versions vs. non transformed extracts from the past.

How else are we to explain the highly visual and stimulating properties of these 1-acetaldehyde versions vs the normal sedating qualilties of LSA? Remember how Kash said he always got visuals & stimulation with the 15 minute peppermint soaked LSA vs the non-peppermint soaked LSA which was sedating, uncomfortable & no visuals? Also see trip reports from myself, 69ron & Kash at beginning of thread & downwardsfromzero also recognized the stimulating properties of the new acetaldehyde adducted extract vs normal extract which he writes about in a dream above. Kash is known for his extensive LSA extraction dreams stickied at top. Krystle Cole writes for several pages about her powerful "ergot wine" experiences in the book "Lysergic".

The 1992 adducts paper specifically adducts acetaldehyde to indole at the NH group in one experiment using acetaldehyde in ph=4 water solution found to happen over time "with or without the addition of ethanol" (they tried it both ways)...giving excellent yield of new product formed, 60% in 1 hour, and even greater yield in less time when they reduced the amount of acetaldehyde used to only 0.1% acetaldehyde solution! Just like the process I dreamed decades ago several times, to replicate the study as best as possible, letting solution sit in fridge for 3 hours with swirling once per hour.

Study calls for ph=4 water solution, which is what I dreamed...as that is the ph necessary for rapid new product creation yield according to the researchers, yield was slower at higher ph...not to mention acidic conditions are necessary to keep the natural LSH extracted from the seeds from re-arranging (decomposing) to LSA as will happen in neutral water, very fast in alkaline water, or when heated.

What was dreamed decades ago was Bigelow fresh mint/peppermint combo leaf sealed and packaged in foil along with 5 drops of peppermint extract. You can find it at your local grocery store in the herbal tea isle.

Fresh MG seeds you will need to grow or locate direct from a reputable grower, as the seeds sitting on racks in retail were found by the study to contain 3x less LSH vs direct from grower. If you find or grow good seeds, vacuum pack and freeze the extras, so they will retain their potency indefinately.

The sources were clear that the kykeon's other ingredient, mint (menthe pulegium) was fresh mint. Mint appears to have played a symbolic role in Eleusinian myth; being Hades' concubine, Mint was "dismembered by the jealous wife Persephone." See Wasson, "The Road to Eleusis", 111. The end.

Shown below, (could not attach here at bluelight) Dr. Shulgin in "Entheogen Review" describes how harmaline gains 2 hydrogen atoms from Vitamin C doner Shocked (same way Santo Daime brew their Ayahuasca for long periods) transforming all the harmaline in their brews into the stimulating, euphoric & colorfully visual anti-serotonin alkaloid tetrahydroharmine, via an Alchemy process. In a similar way LSH & LSA in the thread's recipe brew are transforming to their stimulating doubly anti-serotonin cousins 1-acetaldehyde LSH & 1-acetaldehyde LSA.

Courtesy, the Ultraviolet Catastrophe

 
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DrumTripper

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Nichols’ comments above suggest something different may be at work with 1p, that it may in fact end up being qualitatively different, even slightly, and not just “it’s a prodrug, so it’s congruent.”Makes me wonder about all analogs/subs. Thanks again @tregar !
 

tregar

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DrumTripper said:
Nichols’ comments above suggest something different may be at work with 1p, that it may in fact end up being qualitatively different, even slightly, and not just “it’s a prodrug, so it’s congruent.”Makes me wonder about all analogs/subs. Thanks again
My thoughts exactly DrumTripper.

Original thread with 1992 adducts study, 2016 Polish morning glory study and 15 pics:

hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94309&p=3
 
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tregar

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The likely range in any mg species may fall between .005% and .079% total indole alkaloids in different batches of seeds. Freshly harvested seeds are best.

From the 2016 Polish morning glory study:
We found 1.71 LSH (lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) from seeds bought from growers on-line vs 0.54 LSH (compound to IS ratio) from retail rack seeds found in the stores. 3x higher levels of LSH in seeds direct from growers. LSH is a labile compound, and therefore the variances in its concentration may be due to different age and storage conditions of the seeds rather than difference in plant metabolism.
Based on my dream experiences with FRESHLY harvested seeds right off the vine in the fall, the LSH compound to IS ratio is likely as high as 3.00, even higher then seeds bought from growers on-line, likely due to being picked super fresh & ever so slightly un-ripe (still black & hard though), having been fed miracle grow once a month. The seeds picked fresh are extremely potent based on my several dreams, and it is best to vacuum pack and freeze all the extra seeds picked right away so they will keep their super high potency indefinately.

Interesting thread: Unripe morning glory seeds (in the unripe seeds LSH:LSA certainly would be much more on the LSH side, effects very strong): https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=26273

My current favorite way to grow the Heavenly Blue morning glory (attached pics) is to plant 8 plants in a 17" wide x 15" huge tall beautiful Belize Chata Marsal Clay pot (shown in pic) with a piece of "rolled up welded-wire fence" inside the pot that will unwind automatically and fit the interior of the pot perfectly. I first fill the clay pot up with 3/4 miracle grow potting soil and 1/4 cow manure compost, both found at your local garden store. I mix it all together and add a handful of perlite to help water flow and aeration of oxygen in the soil.

The brand of wire fence is "Red-brand welded wire-fence" and it comes in rolls of 5 foot tall by like 100 foot wide, comes in a roll for only fifty bucks, you just use tin snips to cut off a piece, and then stick it inside your pot. The morning glories will climb the fence and produce thousands of seeds within the abundant number of seed pods formed at the end of the growing season in the fall. You can find the rolls of fence in the garden section at your local big box garden store. They have all different sizes.

The galvanized welded wire fence is so lightweight, you can even stack & wire tie another 5 foot section on top the first 5 foot section, for a total of 10 feet tall in all!

I then put the clay pot on the side of the patio (on top some 1 foot x 1 foot bricks to level it) so that it gets morning sun only, so the plants won't burn. I guarantee this method is cheap, easy, mobile, and allows many plants to grow in one single container with high quality soil, feed it once a month only with 1 tablespoon of miracle grow powder added to 1 gallon watering can with spout, this will keep the foliage down, but the flowers very large, and the lysergic acid amide levels very high. Super potent seeds produced this way at end of fall, which can be vacuum packed and frozen to keep their super high LSH/penniclavine potency indefinately. The teamwork between the high levels of LSH and penniclavine in the seeds is imho what produces the extraordinarily potent entheogenic & very euphoric dreams.

Note: Penniclavine (found in high amounts in the seeds, found to be CNS stimulating, Yui & Takeo) is a metabolite of agroclavine, and is active at the following brain receptor sites: Dopamine D1A, Dopamine D1B, 5-ht2a, Adrenal A2A, Adrenal A2B & Adrenal A2D, in comparison LSD (as far as adrenal sites are concerned) only has activity at A2A, but zero activity at A2B, A2C, and A2D.
 

G_Chem

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Nichols’ comments above suggest something different may be at work with 1p, that it may in fact end up being qualitatively different, even slightly, and not just “it’s a prodrug, so it’s congruent.”Makes me wonder about all analogs/subs. Thanks again @tregar !
I’m a true believer there’s no such thing as a clean 100% pro-drug. There’s always going to be some biochemical side reaction taking place which gives a different effect to just the drug itself.

I’ve tried quite a few pro drugs and they all feel different slightly.

-GC
 

JackARoe

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Interesting thread: Unripe morning glory seeds (in the unripe seeds LSH:LSA certainly would be much more on the LSH side, effects very strong): https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=26273
Now this answers a few questions from me. Twice I picked the seeds before they hardened in the pod and were basically unripe. Eating them had the consistency of mashed potatoes and had a more mild taste. Yet these were the strongest I have ever had on seeds. Half a handful (too mushy to say how many, about 150?) and I was tripping hard, no nausea and much stronger than seeds that were more mature and hardened. I mean at one point I was sitting in the dark, just had a few tokes and the visions were powerful. Not sure why but jungle animals, tigers, all kinds of images coming out of the dark and returning to the dark. These trips were memorable and I always thought unripe seeds should be explored.

So also another piece of info in this thread is freezing fresh seeds preserves LSH. I never knew if that was true or not. If that is the case I can see a lot more people growing and freezing seeds.

Important info here and I believe will get more people experimenting with fresher seeds. I will say adding peppermint to regular seeds did not result in much for me, so that has to be explored more. For now for LSH fresh seeds, and unripe seeds seem to be the way to go.
 

tregar

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Erowid report:
The unripened seed pods of the Morning Glory reveal a white, much larger, soft seed with some green in the middle of the kernel. I have found that this state of the seeds is more than twice as potent as the black dried seeds. 400 dried is similar to a little less than one hit LSD. 400 fresh is like about 2 or three hits.
 

DrumTripper

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Yes @JackARoe!
I also find that when I trip, or dream, on seeds, I get the suggestive tropes of jungle and vine. Pure nature, no techno.
As i say, it’s prolly just suggestion, but knowing it’s just a seed enforces this notion and i love it.
 

G_Chem

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Just for reference we’re calling it dreaming now? :) I actually use that term to refer to tripping on DMT but it works the rest of em too.

The unripe seeds are what I’m going for, the consistency sounds a lot easier to eat plus if freezing retains potency I’ll just freeze em all like that.

-GC
 

tregar

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Many have mistakenly believed for years unfortunately that the LSA was turning into LSH in the seeds, but that is just not possible without a catalyst and a handful of chemical steps that can only be done in a professional lab with setups to protect from oxygen, light, etc, starting from lysergic acid, and not LSA no less. Only the plant (which is a chemical factory on it's own) can do that. LSH is found naturally in the morning glory seeds. The original thread from Lycaeum was misconstrued.

This is the dream summary...

I know nobody wants to hear this, but the 2014 Forensics study by Paulke (you can download the complete 9 page paper from this thread saids that HBWR contains NO LSH, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine. Whereas fresh morning glory contains very high amounts of LSH and penniclavine according to 2016 Polish mg study. LSH was discovered by Hofmann in the seeds around 1967, he put color pics of it in his book "LSD, my problem child" and apparently even told Owsley it was very "LSD like".

TIHKAL saids LAE-32 (which is very similar to LSH) is active at 1.5mg and was said by human experimenters to be "LSD like" at 1.5mg and up and stimulating. Pennicalvine is active at most dopamine receptors, 5ht2a, and 3 adrenal receptors, and is very stimulating and euphoric, as it is a dopamine & adrenal agonist. Again LSH and penniclavine are not in HBWR. Ergometrine in HBWR does have some psychedelic effects, but it is not as strong as LSH, also ergometrine in HBWR causes some side effects like cramping and vasoconstriction, ergometrine is found in morning glory seeds only in very small amounts, see the study with pics here, gives all the levels within the seeds with spectrograms and tables.

It is likely the acetaldehyde in one shot of sherry (sherry contains 10mg acetaldehyde in 1 shot or 30ml) is adducting onto the LSA alkaloids in the seeds which is theoretically causing it to be stimulating and more visual. See trip reports from myself, 69ron & Kash. Unfortunately, 69ron and Kash only dreamed with HBWR seeds.

But acetaldehyde when it adducts onto LSH (not found in HBWR), turns into a more powerful version of LSH which is even more visual and even more stimulating imho, Peppermint extract can do the same thing as it contains 2mg acetaldehyde per 5 drops....or same in 1 tablespoon of Bigelow's mint/peppermint fresh from foil pack tea works just as well, at your grocery store in tea herbal isle.

Acetaldehyde will also adduct onto penniclavine forming 1-acetaldehyde penniclavine.

Ethanol is not necessary for the adducts to form, it can form with our without ethanol according to the 1992 adducts study. See the 1992 adducts study here, but it does need to sit for around 3 hours if possible in the fridge (and only extract with acidified water, ph=4 is what the study used, which is what author used in dreams), and swirled every so often (once an hour). Recipe given in thread, as it works just like the study, very potent dreams.

LSH only survives if you extract the morning glory seed mush with acidic water, as it decomposes to LSA in neutral water, very fast in alkaline water, or water that is heated. Examples given in thread of several people who used lemon juice acidified water (hermes, nogal, etc.) in thread who had very powerful trips and visions as they extracted the LSH from the mg seeds without it decomposing, Author did the same thing using ph=4 DL tartaric acid water which was cold.

Author has been trying to get people to stop "eating the seeds already" cause if they would just use acidic water they would get all the same great effects as eating the seeds, but without the nausea.

Several teens went to emergency room a year ago after eating the seeds, it is bad on the stomach. The shamans & indigenous people would extract QUICKLY with water and drink it right away (Wasson et al). The water in the amazon is slightly acidic as well.

HBWR also has no history of Shamanic use, while morning glory has centuries of documented Shamanic use, personally author only dreams entheogens which have a long history of Shamanic use.

Ever notice how everyone on the net has used wine and or mint with ONLY HBWR and never with Shamanic used morning glory seeds which contain not only LSH in high amounts, but also the euphoric and entheogenic penniclavine in extremely high amounts (see graph below)? Author has yet to find anyone use study recipe with morning glory seeds besides thread's author.

Top: LSH levels are almost as high as LSA levels in morning glory seeds! and that spectrogram was taken with retail store seeds. 3x higher LSH found in seeds direct from growers. 400 black dried seeds equal to less than 1 hit of acid in dreams, 400 fresh off the vine seeds equal to around 2 hits of acid in dreams, but 400 slightly un-ripe seeds equal to around 3 hits of acid in dreams, the LSH to LSA ratio levels are higher the fresher. Vacuum pack & freeze the seeds to keep their potency indefinitely.

Bottom: What happens to LSH under strong ionic conditions or in neutral, alkaline or warm/hot water (it decomposes to LSA) unless it is extracted from seed mush into acidic water.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4830885/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC49935/
 

tregar

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
209
The 1992 study recipe in this thread as mentioned earlier will not only convert LSH to 1-acetaldehyde LSH, but will also convert the euphoric and stimulating penniclavine into 1-acetaldehyde penniclavine. LSD only agonizes adrenal A2A (as far as adrenal receptors), while penniclavine agonizes adrenal A2A, A2C, & A2D, along with 5-ht2a and most of the dopamine receptors.

The adrenal receptors are hit heavily by natural entheogens like mescaline, Ayahuasca with caapi, shrooms, and are believed by some to be responsible for alot of the "aesthetics/euphoria/appreciation of beauty" feeling activity that is experienced while tripping. There is a very strong euphoria component to the mg seeds, and I believe it has to do with the alkaloid teamwork between high LSH levels and the extremely high penniclavine levels in the seeds, even the researchers were shocked at the very high penniclavine levels discovered in all 3 batches of seeds they tested.

In fresher seeds there's mainly LSH (in relation to LSA). Only in old seeds, the LSA is dominant. The is because the fungi on the plant can only biosynthesize LSH (not LSA), and LSA is then a decomposition product of LSH over time.

The fungi on the vines biosynthesize:

From Tryptophan-->chanoclavine-->agroclavine-->elymoclavine-->lysergic acid-->ergometrine-->LSH, which then decomposes over time into LSA.

There's no doubt in my mind that the initiates at Eleusis in ancient Greece for 2,000 years were most likely tripping on 1-acetaldehyde LSH and 1-acetaldehyde penniclavine, both adduct conversion products of the LSH & penniclavine + mint. The Priest used mint in the brew for sure as we know this from the ancient writings.

We also know that Claviceps paspali infected wild grass Paspalum distichum L, which has been known to grow in the famous Rarian plain adjacent to Eleusis contains identical alkaloids as found in the Mexican morning-glory seeds. We also find from the writings that several people had snuck the brew out of Eleusis and consumed it at parties.

 
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tregar

Bluelighter
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Apr 26, 2004
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Psychotomimetics of the Convolvulaceae pg 93:
"This particular plant seems to have been more important to the Aztecs in divinity then Peyotl or Teonanacatl, two of their other classical sacred plants."

The fresher the seeds, the higher the LSH to LSA ratio. LSA is a decomposition product of the labile (unstable or fragile) LSH over time. So vacuum pack & freeze those seeds as soon as you pick them from the pods! Ideal time is when the seed pod just lost its green, as then they have the best LSH/LSA ratio and being overall the most potent. LSH will decompose to LSA unless seed mush is extracted into acidic water (squirt of lemon juice, a crushed vitamin C, DL tartaric acidified to ph=4, etc). You can refrigerate seeds in a jar you intend to use for growing next season.

Penniclavine is euphoric and stimulating (Yui & Takeo). LSD only agonizes adrenal A2A (as far as adrenal receptors), while penniclavine agonizes adrenal A2A, A2C, & A2D, along with 5-ht2a and most of the dopamine receptors.The adrenal receptors are hit heavily by natural entheogens like mescaline, Ayahuasca with caapi, shrooms, and are believed by some to be responsible for alot of the "aesthetics/euphoria/appreciation of beauty" feeling activity that is experienced while tripping. There is a very strong euphoria component to the mg seeds, and I believe it has to do with the alkaloid teamwork between high LSH levels and the extremely high penniclavine levels in the seeds, even the researchers were shocked at the very high penniclavine levels discovered in all 3 batches of seeds they tested.

400 normal dry black seeds = less than 1 hit of acid (60 mics), 400 fresh off the vine black dark seeds = around 2 hits of acid (120 mics) in dreams, 400 slightly un-ripe seeds = around 3 hits of acid (180 mics) in dreams. Comparison to 1990's acid, most modern acid = 100 mics per hit.

Report from Erowid mg vault & verified same by dream self 20 years ago, when picked fresh from vine that had been started in 3/4 miracle grow potting soil + 1/4 composted cattle manure compost (both from garden store). Also fed 1 tablespoon miracle grow powder in 1 gallon watering can with spout x once a month to produce seeds high in lysergic acid amides. Produced VERY potent seeds, guarantee it.

The application of NPK fertilizer (miracle grow) + composted cattle manure increased crop yield by 48.9% compared to NPK fertilizer alone ---> from 2017 Frontiers in Microbiology, 05 Sept 2017 "Composted Cattle Manure Increases Microbial Activity and Soil Fertility." P.S. Some users report that their plants grew three times in size once they added miracle grow soil to their existing potting soil.
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The 2015 forensics study by Paulke found no LSH or penniclavine in HBWR, only 83% lsa/iso-lsa and 17% ergometrine, rest minor clavine alkaloids. Also, HBWR has no history of Shamanic use, only medicinal use. Ergometrine has some psychedelic effects, but it is not as strong as LSH and causes some mild cramping and vasoconstriction, see below:

3 experimenter's effects when ingesting pure ergonovine, another name for ergometrine (found in HBWR), June 1979 Journal of Psychedelic Drugs:
In the January-June 1979 issue of the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs, Jeremy Bigwood, Jonathan Ott, Catherine Thompson and Patricia Neely report on their attempt to replicate Hofmann's finding in three experiments with ergonovine maleate, each time in one pastoral setting. They were following up Wasson and Ruck, who tried the same amount as Hofmann but "did not experience distinct entheogenic effects."

With Thompson acting as a guide, three of them took 3mg. of ergonovine maleate, which appeared as a slightly phosphorescent bluish solution in water. Fifteen minutes later they felt like lying down and looking at the sky; then there were "very mild visual alterations, characterized by perception of an 'alive' quality in inanimate objects." Most of this effect passed within an hour; walking along the beach, they experienced mild leg cramps. Bigwood saw eidetic imagery before going to bed, and the three "slept easily...awakening refreshed in the morning."

The three experimenters were "convinced that ergonovine was psychoactive, but only J.B. was persuaded the drug was entheogenic." They decided to try it again two weeks later in an increased dosage of 5 mg., but Neely took only 3.75mg. "Again, we experienced lassitude and leg cramps, more pronounced than in the earlier experiment." The psychic effects were more intense than previously, particularly eidetic imagery. "Now it was clear to all of us that ergonovine was entheogenic...The entheogenic effects, however, were very mild, while the somatic effects were quite strong. We had none of the euphoria characteristic of LSD and Psilocybin experiences."

To determine if higher consciousness alteration was possible, they tried larger oral doses of ergonovine maleate a week later. This time, Neely took a dose of 7.5mg and the others took 10mg:

"One of us (J.O.) described "flashes in periphery, ringing in ears, inner restlessness" 40 minutes after ingestion, and later noted "mild hallucinosis, cramps in legs and felt the cramping in the legs as painful and debilitating. The psychic effects did not increase with the same magnitude as the somatic effects...For what seemed like hours, we lay on our backs atop a small pumphouse, watching fluffy cumulus clouds pass silently above us. The effects were still quite intense six hours after ingestion. One of us experienced abundant eidetic imagery, rapidly-changing, colorful geometric patterns, undulating, never still. We all had a slight hangover the following morning."
 
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tregar

Bluelighter
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Speaking of which DrumTripper.....the two Double 17" wide x 15" tall Belize Chata Marsal Clay pot growers for Heavenly Blue morning glory, each securely holding (will not budge) a 4 foot round x 7 foot tall welded round fence, equivalent growing space of a normal 4 foot wide x 7 foot tall fence.....

....My wife thought I was crazy :sneaky:when I brought the stuff home like in the movie "Close Encounters" when Richard Dreyfuss raids a neighbor's yard for chicken wire so he can build a living room sized sculpture of the Wyoming's Devil's Tower.
 

DrumTripper

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Those sound amazing and make me want to try indoor cultivation of these.
I can totally picture my wife if i tried this - though given time she would see the physical beauty of a wall of flowers.
If you ever took a pic of those planters, it’d help give an idea of the size impact.
Thanks again for your posts, @tregar !
 

G_Chem

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Mine are coming along nice, two pots worth at the moment. I really enjoy their asthetic too, training their vines in certain directions can add a cool flair to a garden. Can’t wait for them pods though :)

-GC
 
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