high plasma taurine and low levels glycine associated with major depression??

[allone]

i was looking at this study right here; https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8775762/
and im shocked!
first of all, taurine is like the ultimate amino acid. if you google it, it has like 100 pages of research (mostly on rats sadly) but still very interesting reliable research in my opinion. ive never thought elevated levels of taurine will be associated with major depression.
I have to get some thoughts on this as it is quite important to me, and i assume to most people dealing with depression.

 

[Skorpio]

This data is not causal. These findings equally offer two conclusions: first that amino acid perturbations could cause depression, and second that amino acid perturbations are the result of depression.

At best this paper could provide a mechanism for screening for depression.

Also, this is over 25 years old. In general a good heuristic with the scientific literature is to see if the lab that published that paper followed up their findings (or if the idea is promising, if others published on it). You can find this information by looking at what papers cite a given paper.

For example this paper has been cited 41 times. Looking at the newer papers, they seem to be using metabolite analysis as a marker for both depression and antidepressant effects. (there is a single paper that tests taurine supplementation against depression, but it is in a nutrition journal so I would take it with an extra grain of salt (get it?)).

If not evident from my tone, I don't really buy that supplemented amino acids are great therapeutics. The body generally is pretty good at maintaining homeostasis, and I do not see a lot of difference in eating pure amino acids to consuming a lot of protein.

 

[allone]

people can have metabolism defects where they cannot manufacture certain amino acids. they might need to supplement, with high doses in fact.
taurine is hardly available even if you eat tons of protein a diet, its mostly what, like 100mg consumed!? in studies, it shows benefits of 3-4 grams! Thats a lot of meat dude.
so is arginine. very popular supplement for nitric oxide and for bodybuilders. if its so reliable in meat, then no bodybuilder would have supplemented with it, right? its quite popular though and it has good studies that it works.
personally, ive noticed difference with phenylalanine. again, its available in diet, but how come when i supplement with it i actually notice it?
another one that makes a difference is NAC. pretty much in all diary, meat products, but yet i only notice it by itself high dose. all the studies are done on as supplement.
Another one, Glycine; https://www.ergo-log.com/improve-sleep-glycine-memory-will-work-better.html. Lots of studies on this one, Isolated as supplement in GRAMS. Hardly useful in protein diet, really. I can keep going! For all I know perhaps human bodies are quiet retarded. They can get confused which amino acids it needs to isolate from protein as whole and distribute properly. Therefore single amino acids as supplements can be beneficial, before a meal. You give the human body too much credit. Its quite imperfect in fact. We all are.

 

[negrogesic]

I consumed 5 grams of taurine today, is that why im so depressed

These amino acids don't seem to do much, taurine does feel a little sedating and focus enhancing.

 

[allone]

I consumed 5 grams of taurine today, is that why im so depressed

These amino acids don't seem to do much, taurine does feel a little sedating and focus enhancing.

well im telling you they do something. lots of reports on taurine alone. ive consumed tons of them as supplements with different experiences that ill never get from full protein source. for example, arginine would give me erections and no meat ever has done this for me. in fact, i couldnt get hard at all by consuming too much meat.
phenylalanine has analgesic effect. i would have to consume a pound of cheese to get just enough to feel anything. who would consume so much cheese? i have been consuming cheese all of last year with no beneficial effects on any of its amino acid profile, but with a huge toll, very high cholesterol.
i think you guys suggesting people shouldnt be taking isolated amino acid but consume full protein meals is quite irresponsible and detrimental. it will cause huge problem with high cholesterol and many other health issues, liver and kidney problems with too much protein is also an issue.

 

[UltraVioletC]

Taurine is a potent of the extrasynaptic GABA(A) receptors in the thalamus

Taurine Is a Potent Activator of Extrasynaptic GABAA Receptors in the Thalamus

Taurine is one of the most abundant free amino acids in the brain. In a number of studies, taurine has been reported to activate glycine receptors (Gly-Rs) at moderate concentrations (≥100 μm), and to be a weak agonist at GABAA receptors (GABAA-Rs), which are usually activated at high...

www.jneurosci.org

 

[allone]

Taurine is a potent of the extrasynaptic GABA(A) receptors in the thalamus

Taurine Is a Potent Activator of Extrasynaptic GABAA Receptors in the Thalamus

Taurine is one of the most abundant free amino acids in the brain. In a number of studies, taurine has been reported to activate glycine receptors (Gly-Rs) at moderate concentrations (≥100 μm), and to be a weak agonist at GABAA receptors (GABAA-Rs), which are usually activated at high...

www.jneurosci.org

with this in mind, is it possible to use taurine for WD from alcohol and benzos?

 

[UltraVioletC]

with this in mind, is it possible to use taurine for WD from alcohol and benzos?

Yes. Niacinamide is also a gaba agonist and may be useful as well.

 

[allone]

haha i dont think niacin is really that worth risking siezures for buddy.

 

[UltraVioletC]

Niacinamide is NOT the same as niacin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2931304

"...The data suggest that the mechanisms of the anticonvulsant action of nicotinamide are mediated via the GABA-benzodiazepine receptor complex"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6090200

"...Psychopharmacological methods were used to study and compare the effects of diazepam and ligands of benzodiazepine receptors (inosin, nicotinamide and their structural analogs NMF and AzN) in animal experiments. It was found that they possess demonstrable sedative, anticonvulsant, antiaggressive and myorelaxant properties, inhibit the conditioned avoidance reflex in a shuttle-box and the conditioned reflex with positive (drinking) reinforcement in a T-maze. The structural analogs of nicotinamide, NMF and AzN, were found to occupy the intermediate position between diazepam and endogenous ligands of benzodiazepine receptors from the standpoint of pharmacological activity."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6452183

"...In an epileptic focus produced by application of 5-10% acetylcholine and 0.5% proserine, injection of nicotinamide leads at first to the disappearance of after-effect discharge and then of spike potential. It is concluded that nicotinamide has an antiepileptic activity."

 

[allone]

ok ill try it out then. i have been abusing alcohol and benzos for a long time and i get siezures without em. ill try to counter act with niacinamide. any specific brand you can recommend?? from experience i know a lot of fake supplements out there and if someone gets stuck on one, they start believing the actual ingredient just doesnt work.

 

[Xorkoth]

I doubt any supplements will provide enough reduction in seizure threshold to safely combat GABAergic withdrawal.

 

[UltraVioletC]

ok ill try it out then. i have been abusing alcohol and benzos for a long time and i get siezures without em. ill try to counter act with niacinamide. any specific brand you can recommend?? from experience i know a lot of fake supplements out there and if someone gets stuck on one, they start believing the actual ingredient just doesnt work.

I use Bulk Supplements pure niacinamide. Check out this study in which a man used niacinamide for controlling his anxiety and benzo withdrawals. The patient started with lower dosages - 500mg twice a day and then raised the dosage to 2.000mg-2500mg. His long term dosage was 500mg in the morning, 500mg at lunch and 1,000mg at night.

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2004/pdf/2004-v19n02-p104.pdf

"Here, I report on a case where psychological therapy, SSRIs, buspirone, and numerous natural agents were ineffective in the treatment of severe anxiety. The only medications that completely resolved this patient’s anxiety were benzodiazepines. In an effort to wean off the benzodiazepine, the patient took increasing doses of niacinamide (nicotinamide). As demonstrated in the following case report, niacinamide was effective for addressing the benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms and managing anxiety."

 

[plumbus-nine]

These findings are all noticeable but irrelevant for us "end users", so my conclusion. Better get checked for testosterone if you're not the super sporty guy like me, I am in the lower range and supplementing some would have made a big effect overall if I could afford it. Granted I am an opioid user so that's the why but low T and depression are coupled as well as a ton of other values.

Remember placebo's still on par with modern gen antidepressants in trials.