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Heroin Heroin: Another drug that I really don't understand

brickk

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Jul 29, 2018
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So my first assumption was in 2018 I think, based on the movies (which are exaggerated of course) and popular believe, I thought it was going to feel me warm inside, full of love and stuff...kinda like mdma but more potent.
The result was me puking for hours and having difficulties to concentrate on anything, itching everywhere and this constant nausea that wasn't going away, and there wasn't one single positive effect in the whole experience (rush, peak, down...all garbage).

Obviously I tried it again, expecting different results, but no I puked again like crazy and I decided to flush the whole bag down the toilet. Since that day I never touched that stuff again.
Let me just say that I have experience with Oxycodone, Tapentadol, Methadone and that is was I call a good "nod". I can't say that there was a rush of -love- like on mdma, but the experience was pleasant. I can't say the same with Heroin.

And in 99% of cases, when I try a drug for the first time, it's always a yes/no. MDMA was immediately a huge YES, same with Ketamine and Speed (amphetamine). Then there are benzos and other stuff (Clonazepam is my friend since day1...tried every other benzo and at the end I always stuck with Clonazepam and occasionally Alprazolam).

So, I don't think I need to tryhard the same substance over and over again to understand it, I repeat, for me the first assumption always tell me if the drug is good or bad.

Not saying that is a rule for everyone, maybe it's my body reacting in a different way, but the moral of the story is yesterday, after more than 1 year, I was bored as hell so I bought Heroin.
Same color, same putrid smell that I remember...and same vomit and nausea for the whole day. 0 positive effects. I really don't understand where is the flash/rush... where is the peak (oh maybe I know, when you keep scratching all over your body for no reason? Yeah what a beautiful experience, kinda like the MDMA peak....jk), the comedown is horrible too, I couldn't kill the effects with any benzo or stuff and I just wanted to sleep and stop the nausea. So yeah, toilet flush here we go again.

Can you tell me what (some of) you find so special in Heroin, that you can't find in Oxycodone, or other Opioids, or maybe some Benzo? Literally, its the WORSE I've ever tried.
Personally I'm an upper/psychedelic guy, so I'm for MDMA, K, Speed, LSD, and stuff like that, so maybe I can't understand you....like we see the world from a different prospective. Even though, I appreciate some downers like Benzo or in rare case Antipsycothics when I want to get knocked out. But well Heroin is just no, no and no again. Im okay for some Oxy if I'm extremely bored, or some Methadone, but I don't want to touch that again, only thinking of it and its smell makes me vomit.


I personally got hooked to Speed-Amphetamine for 4 years (sober since 2018 )...and to Benzos since almost 8 years (this stuff is the devil, can't quit it) so yeah, to each its own addiction. I like speed because it is a cheaper MDMA that I could use daily without damaging the brain too much (I mean for sure it isn't healthy, but MDMA needs 2 months to recover serotonine...) also speed was giving me energy and social skills, while benzos keep me quiet if Im nervous and they help me to sleep, and I also love the flavour of them, these are my addiction reasons.

Obviously I don't want to offend anyone, but I'm just curious what makes you hooked to something like Heroin (rather than Oxy, Tapentadol, Morphine..or anything else that I refer as "First Class Opioids").
 
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brickk

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Jul 29, 2018
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I'm happy for you really opiates is something you don't want to like

Yeah, instead I got a huge Benzo addiction, and if I ran out of pills and I go WD, I can die, sounds better right?... I guess it's the same stuff at the end.

I experienced Benzo WD 2x times and it was horrible. The second time I literally dissociated myself for days, it was a living nightmare, the scene from Trainspotting was nothing compared to what I experienced. Not even 4 tabs of LSD giving me a bad trip were remotely close to what I experienced. The solution to end all of that? Keep eating benzos :)
 

Perforated

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My experience of heroin was basically the same. I don’t get it either. Puking and itching for hours. That’s’ it.
 

falsifiedhypothesi

Moderator: BDD, OD, Music
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Some people react differently to the classic opiates like morphine/codeine/heroin compared to opioids. I haven't tried heroin but I have taken morphine pills and the experiences was pretty awful overall, even though I love hydrocodone and oxy.
 

HatingThisLife

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Dec 6, 2020
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That's what happens when you dont have a high enough tolerance to opiates. Most of us didnt start out on H, we moved to it bc our pill tolerances were so high that the addiction becomes incredibly expensive. And also as someone else said, some people just have a bad reaction to opiates.
 

brickk

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That's what happens when you dont have a high enough tolerance to opiates. Most of us didnt start out on H, we moved to it bc our pill tolerances were so high that the addiction becomes incredibly expensive. And also as someone else said, some people just have a bad reaction to opiates.

What's even funnier is I HAD tolerance to opiates, as I ate Oxycodone recently (sadly I ran out, obviously). I am left only with Tramadol but I usually clean my ass with that.
I don't even think that it's because I don't do it IV, that the Heroin doesn't make the "good" effect, I tried all ROAs (IV-IM too) but with other drugs, and I didn't notice much difference (Im more a snort/eat the stuff guy), so when I hear sentences like "the Heroin flash is 100x better than an orgasm!!!!" I am like mehhhhhhhhhh....I just think of MDMA in that moment.
That is what I call pleasure, chills of happiness, joy, will to live and love...like, we should stay in that state forever (not too high because it becomes confusing, just the right dose, would be the mindset ideal to have everyday)

Didn't try yet MDMA+sex for various reasons, maybe it will blow my mind by pleasure (assuming my buddy down here will work lol) but yeah, if you ask me whats better (sex/mdma) I say without thinking twice MDMA. I reached some level of pleasure that I didn't even believe they existed. And not to mention it doesn't last 4 seconds like a regular orgasm, it goes on and on for hours... So yeah that phrase in the movies "better than sex" on Heroin it's kinda personal, I think.

Like, I don't understand the whole concept, I want to hear someone who is totally in love with Heroin, if the peak of Heroin is better than sex, then the peak of MDMA what is it for him/her?
Or we have different meaning of "pleasure"?
 

bingey

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Heroïne is more total comfort than total pleasure if I'd have to put it in words
 

btechlc

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Sep 28, 2009
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I could see an opiate high being a learned thing for some people, and at the same time others liking them right away makes sense.

If you are prone to being nauseous and get that bad the first time without taking a high enough dose to get euphoria you would probably think they suck, and of course some people don't seem to get as much euphoria from them as others.

About 50 mg instant release morphine through the nose was my first recreational exposure to opiates and I loved them right away.... mmm I am glad I am one of the people that gets good euphoria from opiates.

On a side note morphine is one of the first things that comes to my mind when I hear the word "drug" lol.
 

brickk

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The first time I ever ate an opiate, with 0 tolerance, was Subutex 8mg. I think I just nodded the whole day. Can't remember exactly because it was so many years ago, but it wasn't a bad experience.

Then I tried Tramadol, Oxycodone, Tapentadol, Methadone... all good, never puked or feeling sick one single time. But of course based on the dosage the high was different (usually more I take, more I get sleepy (OD risk) ) but yea I don't feel nor comfort nor pleasure, it's neutral like spending some time, like smoking a cigarette. And nothing, I thought I could insert Heroin between these opiates but no, for me it's an entirely different (and negative) story that's it.
 

HatingThisLife

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Dec 6, 2020
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What's even funnier is I HAD tolerance to opiates, as I ate Oxycodone recently (sadly I ran out, obviously). I am left only with Tramadol but I usually clean my ass with that.
I don't even think that it's because I don't do it IV, that the Heroin doesn't make the "good" effect, I tried all ROAs (IV-IM too) but with other drugs, and I didn't notice much difference (Im more a snort/eat the stuff guy), so when I hear sentences like "the Heroin flash is 100x better than an orgasm!!!!" I am like mehhhhhhhhhh....I just think of MDMA in that moment.
That is what I call pleasure, chills of happiness, joy, will to live and love...like, we should stay in that state forever (not too high because it becomes confusing, just the right dose, would be the mindset ideal to have everyday)

Didn't try yet MDMA+sex for various reasons, maybe it will blow my mind by pleasure (assuming my buddy down here will work lol) but yeah, if you ask me whats better (sex/mdma) I say without thinking twice MDMA. I reached some level of pleasure that I didn't even believe they existed. And not to mention it doesn't last 4 seconds like a regular orgasm, it goes on and on for hours... So yeah that phrase in the movies "better than sex" on Heroin it's kinda personal, I think.

Like, I don't understand the whole concept, I want to hear someone who is totally in love with Heroin, if the peak of Heroin is better than sex, then the peak of MDMA what is it for him/her?
Or we have different meaning of "pleasure"?
Oxycodone (percocet) is significantly weaker than H. Was your script for 5/10s or 30mg?

Some people just dont do well with opiates but its strange that H does that to you and not pills. That's why I would think it's more tolerance related. My husband would puke from perc 5s and vicodin when he first started opiates and now he does H without getting nauseous at all. Id consider it a blessing that H doesnt mix well with you tbh!!

Another thing, H doesnt make me get itchy but pills always did, I actually kinda miss that with the H high.
 

HatingThisLife

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Dec 6, 2020
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What's even funnier is I HAD tolerance to opiates, as I ate Oxycodone recently (sadly I ran out, obviously). I am left only with Tramadol but I usually clean my ass with that.
I don't even think that it's because I don't do it IV, that the Heroin doesn't make the "good" effect, I tried all ROAs (IV-IM too) but with other drugs, and I didn't notice much difference (Im more a snort/eat the stuff guy), so when I hear sentences like "the Heroin flash is 100x better than an orgasm!!!!" I am like mehhhhhhhhhh....I just think of MDMA in that moment.
That is what I call pleasure, chills of happiness, joy, will to live and love...like, we should stay in that state forever (not too high because it becomes confusing, just the right dose, would be the mindset ideal to have everyday)

Didn't try yet MDMA+sex for various reasons, maybe it will blow my mind by pleasure (assuming my buddy down here will work lol) but yeah, if you ask me whats better (sex/mdma) I say without thinking twice MDMA. I reached some level of pleasure that I didn't even believe they existed. And not to mention it doesn't last 4 seconds like a regular orgasm, it goes on and on for hours... So yeah that phrase in the movies "better than sex" on Heroin it's kinda personal, I think.

Like, I don't understand the whole concept, I want to hear someone who is totally in love with Heroin, if the peak of Heroin is better than sex, then the peak of MDMA what is it for him/her?
Or we have different meaning of "pleasure"?
Also, I wouldnt say the peak is better than sex but I smoke my H. My brother told me its when you IV it that the peak is better than an orgasm. He said "Its like an explosion of pleasure in your brain, 100x better than the best orgasm you ever had".
 

Bare_head

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Yeah i cant get past the side effects to begin to enjoy opiods/opiates but can tell they are an effective pain killer and some people dont get any negative side effects from them so i can see how tolerance/addiction can develop.
 

ageingpartyfiend

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Mar 5, 2011
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Also found heroin dull and unpleasant on the 4 or 5 times I've tried it (no.3, vaped). Nausea, dysphoria and boredom were the main effects for me. It did totally wipe out a screaming toothache on one of those occasions though and for that I'm eternally grateful.

I've had very similar totally meh experiences with codeine, tramadol and oral morphine too, dull, sickly, dysphoric...ugh

Conversely, strictly once every 3 weeks I have a pain-free day by taking either 20mg ir Oxy or around 170mg of high quality opium and thoroughly enjoy their recreational effects (especially when mixed with high quality cannabis) alongside the pain relief.

I've also had iv morphine twice in hospital and that was just spectacularly pleasant, so much so that I would never even dream of taking it outside of that circumstance as I'm sure that would be game over for me

Opies are weird
 

brickk

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My brother told me its when you IV it that the peak is better than an orgasm. He said "Its like an explosion of pleasure in your brain, 100x better than the best orgasm you ever had".

Ok, can you ask to your brother a comparison between a MDMA peak and a Heroin peak? That's my question.

Because usually during a heroin peak i am in the bathroom puking, while on mdma im probably hugging a light pole, smiling like crazy, with chills of pleasure/love down my spine and immense joy.

By the way that's really odd. Because I have/had Oxy 10 @HatingThisLife , but obviously to reach some high I had to take multiple pills, with Tapentadol 100mg were enough to knock me out and I remember with Methadone (the only and unique time I tried it) I took a sip and I black out for 4 hours. None of these experiences caused me nausea or puking, just some nodding but well pleasure? Not even close.
The correct word (for me) would probababy be: "carelessness drug", like, Im not complety tired that I want to sleep, but im not either super euphoric. I just dont give a damn about anything and I can stay here for hours watching this white wall. This is kinda my definition.

Also it's correct to specify that the Heroin I bought came from the street (not even DM), while the other opiates that I tried with prescription, were straight from pharmacy. I don't know if it's the cut that makes me feel sick, but well with pharma pills I never had problems, just some weird experiences but again, nothing special, none can't beat MDMA for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Pickledlemons

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Yeah I don't like heroin either. I'm addicted to opioids, but heroin specifically has always been devoid of euphoria. It will keep me well, but that's it. It was like that the 1st time and the 20th. Fentanyl on the other hand is my demon.
 

Keif' Richards

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Oh, I'm offended OP. Nobody talks about my ex-wife like that. Even if she is a wicked bitch, she still is a person.

There's nothing really to understand here. Different strokes for different folks. I think you probably just got too high and got sick. It's pretty common, especially with illicit Heroin. One of my first experiences with Heroin was being violently sick for like a full 12 hours. It's funny looking back on it now, but it was definitely uncomfortable at the time. I had the strongest urge to keep smoking buts and everytime I would light one and inhale, I'd puke after two seconds and say "well, we don't do that again", only to nod out, wake up and light another but. My face was itching so bad that my nose was absolutely raw by the time morning came around.

You don't need to solve every mystery. Maybe you like Heroin and maybe you don't. Some people love Tennis but hate Squash whereas I, personally ask, "what's the big deal, aren't they both sports where you hit a ball with a racket"? You could spend your whole life wondering what made some people like Tennis and some people like Squash, but it would probably make you happier just to find out the sports that you like and to enjoy those sports.

I'm not condescending or anything. I've often asked myself the same questions. Why do some people love Benzodiazepines? Why do some people prefer Alcohol over a shot of Morphine. We are all different.
 

plumbus-nine

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Stronger opioids are only good when you're already addicted to them imho, there's really something about being too high and sick. I never got any nausea from (dia)morphine, but it made me feel ... weird. Like a sensation of impending doom of that I don't care the least about in the same time, but it's still there. Like a signal from my CNS, what you just took isn't good for you - might be an interpretation/nocebo effect, I was and am overly cautious of respiratory depression (actually got it more than once but it doesn't happen when titrating up specially nasally - really hope you're either snorting or smoking). There was even slight dysphoria. Other description might be more accurate, it takes away the natural pleasure you're been feeling every time even when you don't consciously feel it, and replaces that with artificial pleasure and warmth and carelessness. The feeling of not caring can be painful itself, as many people on antidepressants know. This also already gives you a taste of the withdrawal, which (besides some heavy CNS overreaction/dysbalance) consists of lack of pleasure.

Codeine was pleasurable without this discomfort, even when it's metabolized to the exact same substance, morphine - just at a slow rate and in little amounts. The surge in exogenous morphine causes a negative feedback and your body to stop producing endorphins, possibly enkephalins (which are antidepressant) too.
People in pain, be it physical or emotional, will feel more instant pleasure from taking a strong opioid, as do people in withdrawal (which imho isn't due to the body not producing endorphins, it will possibly produce even more of them than before addiction, but there are just too many receptors around as the body adjusted to them being constantly activated).

Yet even when people don't like it, they usually come back to H. Good question why, maybe you don't actually need to feel pleasure for your reward circuit to be activated - some say while dopamine motivates reward and pleasure, it itself isn't actually pleasurable, which then gives some room for philosophical discussions about whether "we" are just chemicals or not..

(Writing this while 100mg morphine begin to unveil their pleasurogenic effects. Remember, I didn't like H at first. But I did like O-DSMT, methadone [it has a slow onset, thus circumventing said adverse reaction] and codeine. I withdrew twice from higher doses of morphine, got more or less around the withdrawal, and am still using again. If you have the chance, run.)
Also having experiences with dissociatives, and possibly just different drugs before, might give one an advance over addiction. Might be a slight one but possibly relevant. Most people (I knew of) who were deep into H addiction didn't do dissos or psychedelics.

Also, acute opioid effects are pretty unlike these in chronic users for which imho secondary mechanisms like hormonal suppression are to blame for. Opioids can and do cause worse depression than they seem to treat in the beginning, even when they doubtlessly are effective antidepressants, even in the long run for some but here bupe is superior because of its kappa blocking effects. I'm still trying to find something to reverse the hormonal shit opioids caused in me - I lost any interest in sexuality, for example, even when I'm still able to 'perform'.
 
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Bare_head

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yeah i try not to see a drug as "bad" or "good" though bias and experience will taint this.

It is simply a chemical that alters brain chemistry. they are amazing tools drugs but at the same time every substance needs to be respected.

I definitely didn't get much enjoyment out of opiates but i still respect that these drugs for its pain relieving properties and the fact that many people do enjoy them, even though i dont have that enjoyment as i get too many side effects from,

Its amazing that people automatically think that if one drug works for most people that it should work for them. Our brains and chemisty is unique to each other and should never presume something is ok because other people can take it.

Hell im allergic to paracetemol. Everyone else can take them with no side effects whatsoever. different strokes for different folks and all that
 
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