Heroin Heroin - #4 - Proper IV preparation given the differences in how it breakdowns - Please Help

[speelunker99]

First time post so my apologies up front for any infractions. I am a long time speed junkie and have recently decided to start heroin as a hobby on the side I am no stranger to opiates , I have detoxed off of oxy's a few times in the past. But, I am new to heroin. I was hoping for something simple, like meth, where all you have to do is add some water and you are good to go. So, I thought I would go with some #4, or china white, and I would be all set. I bought 2 different batches from 2 different vendors and they were not at all what I was expecting and very different from each other. They both seem to be very strong, I have tried them both, low and slow of course, I started with .010 grams. I believe them both to be of equal strength. But here is the deal, Batch #1 is a brown, fine powder, and breaks down very easily with just a little water, it also has a slight vinegar smell to it. Batch #2 is also brown, but a little more grainier, even has little rocks in it, there is no odor to it, and when you add water, it turns into this thick, gooey mud. I tried adding fire to it, and it turned it into a very dark, black liquid which I was able to draw up, but then I could only get half of it in my arm before it turned rock hard in my syringe!! No Shit - the plunger stopped and I was like WTF and sure enough I had like 10 units of concrete left in the syringe. Is that normal?? Man, the last thing I need is some help clogging my veins.

Anyway, here are my questions -

Question #1: What is the difference between these 2 batches?
Question #2: Is Batch #2 legit? Do I just need to add some acidity to it, or is there something else needed to make it a liquid, and stay a liquid?

Cheers!

 

[Jabberwocky]

the second batch needs ascorbic acid to cook it, it seems like heroin #3 so you would need an acid as you stated ( citric acid, lemon juice, ascorbic acid) but the ascorbic acid is the most ok I would not try with the other ones, also don't go crazy with the acid or it can become painful, you will find the right amount through experimenting with it.

we can't tell what is the difference exactly neither if it is legit or not ( + bluelight does not allow subst ID or testing related questions).

also welcome to bluelight! and I wish you good luck with the heroin, go easy on it tho but you are already experienced so you know what to do

p.s: if the acid does not work ( I would doubt it ) just run it on foil and next time order only the first batch, anyway post again after you tried the acid route and we'll figure it out somehow.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Sounds like batch 2 could be diamorphine base (common in Europe, but seems to be gaining ground in the US now) which needs acidifying before it will dissolve. This is risky territory because if you don't do it right you can end up with an excess of acid in the solution - which destroys your veins very quickly. As mentioned above, ascorbic acid (Vitamin C powder) is probably your safest bet as it's a relatively weak acid but still does the job.

However, what concerns me most is the fact it solidifies in the syringe. This is not normal and can be attributed to various nasty cuts. The UK had a major heroin drought in 2010 and we saw all manner of shite being passed off as gear - much of it eventuality fnding its way into my veins.

All I can say is don't buy that garbage again...

 

[G_Chem]

^^Second that.

I remember good dope, I could toss in a tiny rock and just barely flicker the lighter underneath it for a second to get it to dissolve. Which left a light brown solution which was a breeze to inject, even for my half assed skills.

The first batch sounds more in line with good dope to me. Although it being a fine powder it was likely cut a bit.

-GC

 

[axe battler]

I'm sorry to point out the obvious here, and I think you were probably being facetious when you said you were gonna start taking heroin as a hobby on the side....I don't know if you've heard the news on the grapevine, bit heroin is an EXTREMELY addictive and destructive drug to fuck about with. It's unlikely to stay a hobby for long.
But as the others said above, batch 2 sounds like it's shit no.3. good 3 shouldn't clog the syringe as it cools. Stick with the first vendor.
If you do want to get some 3 heroin base to smoke, I would still use another supplier.
And 0.1g isn't starting slow. That's 100mg!!
Be safe mate.

 

[speelunker99]

Thanks guys for all your replies and for confirming my suspicions. Batch #2 actually came from France which might explain the European flavor. I will try with acid tomorrow and will let you know. So, can you tell me the steps for adding acid? Is fire necessary to start, can I try without first? Do I just add a little at a time until it all becomes same consistency? What am I looking for at the end? Sorry for what I am sure are elementary questions.

And, yes axe battler, it was totally meant in jest. I am going down this road with eyes wide open. And, to clarify, I started with 0.010, not 0.10. Pretty sure I would have been nuked at 0.10.

If you dont mind, just one more question to all of you, what is your favorite type of H to inject? Is it always #4, because I hear good black tar is good too, but seems like a mess and a PIA. Thoughts? If you can point me to a thread on this topic that would work too.

Again, thank you very much!!

 

[Jabberwocky]

I can comment only on the #3 as I did not encounter #4 or black tar in europe, the thing with the heat is that scientifically heat only helps the cuts to get into the solution also as heroin is pretty soluble in cold water but honestly I used to add a little heat but lots of people on this forum state that it is not needed.

 

[G_Chem]

Thats true.. When I say flicker a lighter, I literally mean just that. It was more done so I didn’t have to crush up the lil tiny rocks before putting them in the cooker, aka laziness. I was also shooting dope uncut straight off the brick so there wasn’t the worry to use techniques which would avoid cuts.

But your correct, you can just as easily crush it and mix it in. The solubility of diacetylmorphine in water is fairly high. Learned this one that hard way after accidentally getting my friends bundle wet one day lol.

Which brings me to my next point... Good #4 is king for IV. The only issue is obviously that #4 is often cut all to hell in a lot of places.

I knew a guy who shot the dope from my area for over a decade no problems. Back then we had very pure heroin flooding our area not long after 9/11 (coincidence?). This guy had all his veins and lived an ok life considering the facts. He then moved down south where black tar is all that’s available. He lost all his veins and died of an overdose within a year.

I can attest that purity of your heroin is paramount. I have all my veins, no track marks... But the most important part is that due to the fact it was always pure, we were able to properly dose because it was always the same purity. That’s why my guy died after moving I presume, the highly varied purity of black tar probably did him in. Sure pure dope is dangerously strong, but we were familiar with its strength and knew how to work with it. I’ll never forget how many people grabbed bags that were irate upon purchase but then called back the next day apologizing.

Do what I did, keep working your way to the source. Idk how that’s done these days but the closer you are the cleaner (and safer!) your dope will be. Street heroin is Russian roulette and frankly the few times I tried it, the high is garbage too. I see why some people think oxy is better in comparison if that’s all they’d ever tried.

I’ve never had black tar but have had products close to it, almost like a caramel turd lol. Didn’t care for em.. God knows what was in that shit. Any chemist that can’t simply purify their morphine before acetylation obviously doesn’t care about your health in the slightest.

PS- If you can’t tell nostalgia has been hitting me hard lately. I haven’t had good dope in over 10yrs and I’m craving it like a sum bitch. One day at a time.. lol

-GC

 

[speelunker99]

So, adding acid seemed to make a huge difference. I put in about .05g of Batch #2 in spoon with 20 units of water. I crushed a chewable ascorbic acid tablet and put in about a 1/3 amount of this powder to the concoction and it broke down like butta. No heat required. The 20 units turned into 32 units when drawn up and there was no residual in the spoon. This was my fourth hit and the best rush yet. Does that mean Batch #2 may not be garbage afterall? Is this how normal #3 would act? There was still no ordor, which I am not sure what that means. What does the vinegar smell mean anyway and is it important?

I can appreciate y'alls nostalgia and the longing for the good ol' days. I can feel that way sometimes about some good ol' fashioned bathtub crank, the way they made it back when I was in high school....the kind that would burn your eyebrows off when you open the bag. Havent had anything close to that in years. I know what happened to the meth marked but what happened to the H market, why is good dope hard to find? Guess I am fortunate that I dont have anything but now to compare it to.

 

[speelunker99]

I guess one other follow up question would be: What gives in the difference in price between H3 and H4? If Batch #2 is really what H3 would be, why pay so much for H4? Is it worth more than 5x as much for H4? I must be missing something.

 

[G_Chem]

So often with #3 it’s easy to over acidify which damages your veins and you’ll lose em a lot faster. Same with crack..

It usually is about location but the dark web has kind of changed that up a bit. The best heroin I remember will have no smell or barely detectable smell of vinegar.

Honestly idk how the market is these days. Too scared to dip my toes back in after watching people I know fall out on fent dope. One of the last times I got some I’m pretty sure it was, I remember it was like more grey than beige and felt a lot like fentanyl with not much euphoria. For all I know could be some baller shit on the market but somehow I doubt it.

Also #4 is a step further along in purification.. While I don’t doubt there is some pure #3 out there, I feel if you can take out the variable of cuts then #4 is ultimately the way to go.

-GC

 

[speelunker99]

Thank you guys very much for the information. And, also for welcoming me to the forum. I had a pretty scary incident occur the other day that I want to share with you guys. As I originally mentioned, I have been taking it real slow and had worked my way up to .070g. This last week I had to go on a business trip which required airline travel across the country. Since it was going to be all week I took some stash with me but no hardware due to security concerns. I was able to score all that I needed at our destination except I did not bother with springing for a scale thinking that I could just eyeball it. I am in IT and there is not anyone that I know of that I work with into any kind of recreational drugs much less the hard stuff. We were having this big company meeting and we were all staying in the same hotel for the week. On Wednesday i decided it was going to be the day. I would leave the meeting early for lunch and go to my room and fix up planning to be back downstairs in time for the afternoon agenda to kick off. I am sitting at the desk in my room and eyeballing what I think is around .070. The time on the clock was 11:15 AM. I take my off my shirt and no need to tie off. It was a quick draw and easy push and I could feel the rush coming on. That is all I remember until I woke up crumpled on the floor. The syringe I used was sticking in my sock making it look like it was stabbed into my ankle, it was not. The time on the clock is now 1:37 PM. I stumble to the bathroom and look in the mirror and have blood running down my face from a 3 inch long cut on my forehead, luckily superficial, but I have a splitting headache and can barely walk due to feeling very loopy. I jump in the shower hoping I can get dressed real quick and make it downstairs before anyone notices. After the shower, I sit and look at my phone and my boss had texted my at 1:00 PM wondering where I was. All I am thinking about at this point is how totally screwed I am at my job and then my head nods. When I wake again it is 3:05 PM. I still can barely walk. There is no way in hell I am going to be able to go back downstairs. I text a very lame message back to my boss that I suddenly got sick and fell asleep and will likely not be coming down for the rest of the day, which was not at all a stretch from the truth. I laid down in bed and did not wake up again until 7:00 AM the next day.

I felt groggy but otherwise normal when I woke up. I usually carry some makeup cover for the occasional bruise or track mark, I used this to cover the cut on my forehead and I managed to smooth things over with my boss, all my peers were happy to see me and soon it was like it never happened. My wife was pissed that she could not reach me but there is nothing new about that

Anyway, does this sound like an OD or is this a typical Saturday night for an H user? I am pretty sure I know the answer but thought I would ask anyway. I sense I should be counting my blessings and should never, ever, try again without a scale.

Cheers
Spee

 

[MadelineQ]

Is it possible to get track marks from only 4-5 times of injecting?

 

[Etterwonde]

Is it possible to get track marks from only 4-5 times of injecting?

Yes. It depends on which kind of needle gauge you use, as well as the amount of acid used to dissolve your dope (in case we're talking about #3), your injecting skills, the location of injection, whether or not your hit or miss, and so on. It certainly is possible to get track marks after 4-5 times of injecting; hell, even after only one injection if done really bad.

 

[sekio]

That is all I remember until I woke up crumpled on the floor. The syringe I used was sticking in my sock making it look like it was stabbed into my ankle, it was not. The time on the clock is now 1:37 PM. I stumble to the bathroom and look in the mirror and have blood running down my face from a 3 inch long cut on my forehead, luckily superficial, but I have a splitting headache and can barely walk due to feeling very loopy.

That's a textbook case of opioid overdose. You're lucky to be alive. Had you done any more or had anything else in your body that would have potentiated the depressant effecr (alcohol/benzos etc) you would likely have stopped breathing and died. A dose of heroin that causes instant and profound unconciousness is not that far from a lethal dose. It's also worth noting that doing heroin or other opioids in new surroundings can decrease the amount of tolerance by a variable amount, so just because you can do 70mg at home, you might only need 50mg when you go out.

You should also never eyeball doses, especially drugs like heroin where an error of 10mg could be the difference between a good time and unconciousness. If you keep doing doses that large without having someone around to give you rescue breathing and a naloxone shot then you are going to end up dead in your apartment eventually.

Also, it's not smart to dose depressants before important meetings, social events, etc. If you had collapsed in the middle of the office you'd probably get fired for drug use. Just food for thought.

Is it possible to get track marks from only 4-5 times of injecting?

You can get visible marks from one needle stick, even if it's done "properly", and especially of you have fair skin. I got marks in the crook of my arm whenever the nurses needed to run IV fluids in the hospital the last time I was there.

Using small gauge needles, never re-using a needle once it's broken skin, rotating injection sites, making sure pH is neither too acidic nor too alkaline, and using micron filters will all help.

 

[speelunker99]

Thanks Sekio. I have definitely been teetering on the edge trying to find the right dosage. It seems that I take a hit at .050 and I get a rush (nothing close to a Meth rush) for maybe 20 minutes and then go back to pretty much normal, maybe a little euphoria for an hour or 2 longer but nothing to write home about. Next time I dose .060 and I go unconscious for a few minutes (10-15) and wake up feeling "OK", no noticable rush, a little more euphoria maybe than from the .050, but not much. I definitely nod out consistently as it runs its course. Then at .070 I am out for an hour and wake up feeling like shit, very lethargic, and nauseous. Could this be just bad dope? Am I doing something wrong? Or is H not all that it is cracked up to be? I always have loved traditional Opioids such as narcos and oxys and thought man Heroin has to be way better, right?

 

[sHR00m]

Thanks Sekio. I have definitely been teetering on the edge trying to find the right dosage. It seems that I take a hit at .050 and I get a rush (nothing close to a Meth rush) for maybe 20 minutes and then go back to pretty much normal, maybe a little euphoria for an hour or 2 longer but nothing to write home about. Next time I dose .060 and I go unconscious for a few minutes (10-15) and wake up feeling "OK", no noticable rush, a little more euphoria maybe than from the .050, but not much. I definitely nod out consistently as it runs its course. Then at .070 I am out for an hour and wake up feeling like shit, very lethargic, and nauseous. Could this be just bad dope? Am I doing something wrong? Or is H not all that it is cracked up to be? I always have loved traditional Opioids such as narcos and oxys and thought man Heroin has to be way better, right?

That might have to do with hotspots in your heroin, which is a common danger if a fentanyl analogue was added. Common in US based powder that is not tar. In that case there would be no safe way to use that batch (except maybe dissolving the entire bag to get an evenly distributed solution and working your way up from there).

Or you might simply have misjudged the potency. 70mg is a shitload assuming its quality stuff. Without tolerance I'd probably start more in the low 20s range.

 

[Dopestarkitty]

Hi I am new to this whole shooting up thing. I don’t know how to use a syringe . What are cc on the syringe??? How many milligrams of heroin do I use to feel sedated??? And how much water do I put in a syringe??? Is it the less water the stronger the heroin??? Can someone give me step-by-step directions on how to do this so I don’t accidentally OD???

 

[speelunker99]

That might have to do with hotspots in your heroin, which is a common danger if a fentanyl analogue was added. Common in US based powder that is not tar. In that case there would be no safe way to use that batch (except maybe dissolving the entire bag to get an evenly distributed solution and working your way up from there).

Or you might simply have misjudged the potency. 70mg is a shitload assuming its quality stuff. Without tolerance I'd probably start more in the low 20s range.

Thanks. That makes sense, I think it was bad dope. I got some different stuff from a new source and it seems way different and better. It is supposed to be #4. The first batch was only 1G and came as black tar ball. It broke down nicely with only water. I used heat only to escalate the process. The second batch from same source was 5G and it was more "powdery", dark brown and black color. Supposed to be the same stuff. Apparently exposure to heat can cause it to go from powder to tar which is what happened with the first batch. Anyway, this stuff seems way better. I must have been building up a tolerance because .04 seems to be about the sweet spot for affect. I stick to this and re-dose every 6 hours or so, much longer if I do some speed inbetween On this new stuff, .07 will knock me out but not for long and I feel pretty good when I wake up. Honestly, still a little disappointed by the lack of euphoria overall. Maybe I should try speedballing, but I am probably pressing my luck as it is.