Opioids Help With Switching From Oxycodone to Morphine ER! Questions...

[DEADPOOLx23]

So I have been on Oxycodone for YEARS for a list of issues but i am getting less and less pain reduction from it and of course the times I want to relax and may take a couple extra the effects just arent there anymore.


I am looking to try to see if any other type of medication helps with pain relief and has any more recrational value for those "weekends" or "bad days" so a friend recommended I give Morphine a try as it is supposedly filled with more sedative effects and body buzz pain relief than oxycodone.


I was given 50 30mg Morphine ER Purple ABG's to try for this month but after reading all of the coversion charts and ROA info I have some questions.


I have a pretty high tolerence I guess, i had a high natural tolerence from Day 1 and needed higher amounts back when I had never ever taken a pill for any reason, medical or otherwise. These days I can take 150mg of oxycodone at one time with minimal effects and 450mg in a day without really noticing much other than my pain being MOSTLY gone but i still have trouble sleeping and it just doesnt seem to get the job done in any sense of the term.


Now i have read that Oral Morphine ER is a waste and id need WAY MORE than would make it a viable daily option and that Morphine should only be taken IV or Plugged. I wont IV an ER pill since I havent started pinning and surely wont start with an ER pill if i ever were to start so im guessing that leaves me with plugging the Morphine ER.


Now people seem to have the rectal BA of Morphine all over the map from 30% to 80% so thats tough to figure out exactly where my dosing should be. If i can take 120 to 150mg of Oxycodone and not get great effects from it, where should my dosing be for the Morphine ER plugged or otherwise?


I have found that I should dissolve the Morphine in some water for 8 to 12 hours from reading one of Tricombs posts before dosing to make sure its as instant of a solution as possible and that adding a little baking soda may help PH levels also.


Any suggestions on where I should be dose wise with my tolerence would be super helpful as id like to be able to find a more effective med for my pain and one that may also help me sleep better as well. When i had tried the Oxycontin new formula a few months ago i could take over a gram during a day and not get full pain control or sleep through a night.


Hopefully i can figure out the best way to take these to inprove on my quality of life & as a secondary effect maybe be able to relax a little sometimes.


Thanks for the help,
DEADPOOL

Ps: i tried 120mg of the morphine er orally, chewed and havent noticed much pain relief or other effects other than minimally.

 

[DEADPOOLx23]

I guess to clarify, im a little confused on how much Morphine ER, crushed, soaked for 8 to 12 hours & i guess plugged (since it seems to be the only main accepted use of Morphine besides IV) i should be using to be the equivalent of 120 to 150mg oxycodone. I know Morphine is supposedly 1.5 to 2 times weaker than oxycodone....or backwards...yeah... but that seems to be the oral bio conversion so any help would be awesome.

 

[OntarioGuy]

Morphine is actually 1.5 - 2 times stronger then oxy (if both drugs were given IV and had a 100% bioavailability) tho oral morphine is about half the strength of oral oxycodone due to metabolism.

I think if u plug a dose of 150 mgs of morphine u should get effects around in the ball park of what ur used to.

Ur best bet to plug these would be too use a 3-5 ml syringe (no needle obviously,) crush the pill and let t soak in some water, perhaps just a tad more then will fit in your syringe. Perhaps add just a tiny bit of vitamin c powder to help the drug release. Let it sit It sit for 8-12 hours. U can drink this or plug it (don't use to much vit c if u plug)

Also a way that I thget morphine into solution fast for plugging is this:

Remove coating of the pill (s) put them in spoon whole, don't crush.

Cover with 3-5 mls of water.

Heat spoon from bottom with stove element or candle/lighter.

Once the pills begin to puff up and break up squish them with the syringe and heat again really quick, right as it begins to bubble remove from heat, throw in a price of cigarette filter and pull the solution through it into your syringe. U can cool and plug the liquid.

Not the greatest method, but one u can use while u wait for pills to release the morphine on their own over 12 hours

 

[DEADPOOLx23]

Where is tricomb when you need him, he would yell at you, as would many opiate lovers....NEVER use heat on opes lol...But thanks for the reply. Tricombs method for prepping works well, i just wasnt sure on dosages.

 

[tacodude]

Tricomb is taking care of himself for once last I checked with him. He seemed to be doing well. He deserves his own life for sure after devoting so much of his life to maintaining the boards. Hopefully he will check back in one day and update us all. I wish the best to him till then.

 

[OntarioGuy]

Where is tricomb when you need him, he would yell at you, as would many opiate lovers....NEVER use heat on opes lol...But thanks for the reply. Tricombs method for prepping works well, i just wasnt sure on dosages.

Considering I've been a blue lighter for 10 years, I'm very aware that heat is not really desirable with opioids. But if u want a liquid solution now, this second, as most ppl would, there's not much way to get around it with most ER morphine formulations.

Also I said, don't let it boil,to remove right before that happens.morphines water solubility I believe increases past it's 60 mgs/ml in warm water...I mean I'm pretty sure it does anyways.

I mean ur just plugging not IVing ffs, any fillers that dissolve shouldn't really matter, I don't think any ER morphines have any binders that are particularly caustic or rectum damaging.and if any morphine was lost by slightly heating the mixture it would be negligible (unless u boiled the fuck out of it like a moron)

 

[DEADPOOLx23]

Right, im also not too worried about speed either. I am planning to ake several batches of solution at one time in advance once i get dosing figured out that way "wating" wont be an issue.

Again, thanks for the advice.

 

[DEADPOOLx23]

Ps: 150mg doesnt quite seem to be enough as i tried it about an hour ago and dont feel much....sadly

 

[OntarioGuy]

Ya, unforunately morphine is just one of those drugs where any ROA besides IV just isn't even worth the trouble....I was very addicted to morphine, but I injected it.

Perhaps just do double the amount ofnur oxy dose

 

[dopemaster]

IV its so strong so not the best roa because it will leave you extremely addicted. IV use leads to nothing but problems.

I would think it wouldn't take too long to adjust to that does of morphine orally, really wouldn't.

I used to break mine down so I could explain plug and iv prep but won't unless thats neccesary. It does worked plugged if you can do that to yourself. You will need to be sanitary af.

Or you could eat the tablets instead and save yourself from a world of hurt.

X amount of morphine = X amount of hyrdocone, but morphine is strong. I think the 30s are good for pain relief and 5 a day is enough to just take orally.

 

[tacodude]

IV will always lead to withdrawals within hours 4-6 the shorter it gets the more you use. Oxymorphone is really the only exception I found giving closer to 6-8 hours due to 8-9 hours half life, which is pretty good for a purely opioid effective compound that's also selective to the mu receptor. Honestly I never found a rush from om, but I preferred lasting relief over a rush.

 

[finis]

According to medical charts, IV morphine is 3X stronger than oral morphine. But oral oxycodone is 1.5X stronger than oral morphine. Having been prescribed both oral meds I can say from experience that this is true. Any Extended Release tab does not have a cover which can be removed. It can't be chewed, cut, crushed either. When you a soak ER pills in water you end up with a thick gooey mess, rendering the medicine useless. Extended Released allow small doses of med release in digestive fluids over 12 hours, useless. Immediate Release are just that, immediate
if you gets meds from physician, ask for the chromosome test to determine is you were born lacking the liver enzymes to process opioid meds. With or without the test, although the test would make your case, ask for either a morphine pump which would allow you IV shots of med with the push of a button or fentanyl (80X stronger than morphine) in the patch or lollipop form. Some restraint would be needed to use either the morphine pump or fentanyl.

 

[OntarioGuy]

U can in fact dissolve ER pills in water. U use a enough liquid so it doesn't gel all the liquid like 25 mls. Usually an acidic solution like Coca Cola or lemon juice is used. The pill is left to soak for 12 hours and releases the drugs just as it would in the stomach

 

[DEADPOOLx23]

Ive found nearly 0 gelling when using water, morphine can be broken down 60mg morph per 1ml water, using an extra ml or 2 there is no gelling. Im just not getting great results oral or plugged. Maybe im just trying to use less so im not feeling it. Since i wasnt getting full results with 150mg oxycodone and i havent tried more than 240mg morphine. Eh....at least i have taken enough to not feel sick while trying the switch over. I may just go back to the oxycodone since its less pills and no prep work, even though i didnt want to keep raising my effective dose....sigh, oh well, i was hoping morphine would at least be more sedative and help with sleep. I just have always had a history of needing higher doses than other people ive talked to, yet my wds have never seemed worse than other peoples, so maybe i do i have a problem with these meds being processed effectively since i do not iv anything and dont really want to start. Its just frustrating.

 

[dopemaster]

If you are considering injection you should switch to something you won't inject.

A few things, morphine has a very long half life, probably one of the longest opiate half life and durations as opposed to methadone.

Oxy has a huge downside as chronic pain management. The problem is tolerance and it can just go up and up and never levels out. I ran into that problem after about 4 or 5 years of taking it for pain.

I honestly prefer morphine over oxycodone for long term pain management. That being said it takes a while to kick on and abusing it will cause problems.

There is a better way to break it down. I type it up before so I will put it up here to some degree but strongly discourage it.

The only reason I am putting it up is because I don't like the current method posted. Ok so its boil and drop. So for one tablets you want 3css and an additional cc per pill depending on size. You boil the water with a pinch of sea salt. When it reaches a roaring boil you drop in your crushed up tablet, stir, and quickly filter.

The salt should prevent gelling and the solution should be clear (takes a lil practice) and the resulting solution will be relatively water like in terms of fluidity.

I really got myself strung out on morphine for years. It lasts as long as heroin so about 8 hours. Withdrawal is just as intense too though.

I would suggest just taking it orally as I wish I had accepted the pain was still going to be bad.

This is the point where you are crossing a line that many people never look back from. You don't want to go there.

Switching back to oxycodone might be a good short term solution but you will run into the same tolerance issues fast.

I would say that dose of morphine is worth trying to make work out for you orally as directed. It beats getting strung out and/or losing your pain contract.

I wouldn't want it removed from the list of medication that work for me. Oxy and work rather well rx'd together.

I would say if you are considering morphine injection and have the option to switch to something you won't abuse that is probably your best bet.

Oxymorphone I really don't like. It has such a short half life and is extremely addictive. I think even though oxymorphone withdrawal is short it is rather brutal.

It's tough to deal with chronic pain and make these choices but you can choose to not make the mistake of abusing medication especially with the ROA.

 

[SKR]

Unfortunately as far as pain relief goes I had to IV around the same mg amount of Morphine pills as Oxycodone IR or ER (Crushed) which was taken orally and I would still rate the Oxycodone crushed and taken orally as a better option expecially for getting things done through the day. The extra sedation from Morphine is more suitable in the evening leading up to and for sleep

With the Morphine pills, I was scripted MS Contin not an IV solution/Bolus so there are going to be unknown losses and "unwanted but largely non-harmful contaminants" after you have soaked for 8 -12 and then wheel filtered (I recommend filtering through 2 sizes, so filter through the larger filter first and then finally through the smaller ) 0.22microns from memory as the final product. What you end up with is not as nice as a bolus injection administered at say a hospital but it gets the job done (It should look clear with no solids present at all, let it sit for a little while to test this and see if any solids rest on the side of the barrel, they shouldn't).

Obviously using Via IV the effects are more fleeting but should be enough to assist you in the evenings.....it just sucks that this is the best way I have found to use the MS Contin pills after getting used to an oral Oxycodone dose.....It's all about that damn BA which most GP's act or are completely oblivious too.

They just google the same shit we do in my years of experience. Shit, I've directed Dr's and GP's to certain conversion charts to show them and lead them to what they are looking for and asked them if they wouldn't mind spending some time reading up on Bioavailabilities of these drugs so as to familiarise themselves with these drugs.

So in short if I take 120mgs of crushed Oxycodone in the AM (I always crush) then I will prep at least the same so 120mgs MS Contin for my next dose which will unfortunately be an IV filtered pill (Errr.)..

 

[SKR]

^And If I was administered a morphine Bolus/Injection prep in hospital it was always done as a sub/cut or subcutaneous shot as in - injected under my skin (Belly pinch) as opposed to IV and it still felt "cleaner" (You will know what I mean when you do an IV pill shot and your face is tingling/burning with a histamine reaction which goes away after a minute or so). Much prefer the real deal and sub/cut.......Nah much prefer the real deal (Bolus prep) and IV lol. Pain really sucks.

 

[tacodude]

Glad to hear you use a micron filter. You have a point on the sedation oc being the least. Hydrocodone is similar just a touch more sedating yet neither putting me to sleep except oc nasal some reason. Morphine based stuff on the other hand nod city. I find it best to use oc/hc for daytime maintenance and om/hm for nighttime breakthrough pain as I find my tolerance doesn't build as if jumping in between the kappa and mu for relief, but it's likely not that simple.


Edit : the above poster is wrong to Oxymorphone has a 7-9 hour half life. Codeine, Morphine, the hydro form, and I think form is 4 hours at best. Maybe got it mixed up with hm, which is notoriously known as the crack of opiates for its extremely short half life maybe a few times better than feedbacks 0.5 hour life.