Bupe Help with fast taper using suboxone

[MangoDenmark]

Hi all,

At last it seems that i will get a small amount of suboxone, and will then try to kick my 250mg oxycodone a day habbit. I have taken oxys for 7 months.
Before oxycodone i took codeine, wich i still do. Before oxys i took 400mg codeine a day, for 15 years, but i have never been physically addicted to codeine. at the time i only took codeine, it was no problem to stop for a week. It was a psychological problem, but never physical, like it is know with the oxy.

I did stop the codeine for like 3 months, where i was clean, but i struggled massive depression, with suicidal thoughts. Really really bad depression, wich lifted the moment i started using again. Thats why i foresee that i will also have serious problems with depression this time, and if i can lessen these symptoms to some degree by taking a very small amount af suboxone dayli i would like that. Then i know i will get addicted to the subs, but a jump from 0.25 or even 0.125 must be something i can handle ?

Unfort. i have a very addictive personality, and i'm getting withdrawal symptoms in less than 6 hours from oxys. I shake, hot/cold sweat, yawning, muscle tension, depression and so on.

I need confirmation that i do this the right way. I have never taken subs before, and i know that i should wait until i reach 26 on the COWS scale before i induct myself. That will take me like 15 hours i think.

Im planning to take the subs for 5-6 days, but i would like to hear your comments on continueing the last very low dose for weeks, maybee months ?
Like this:

Day 1: 4 mg
day 2: 4 mg
day 3: 3
day 4: 2
day 5: 1
day 6: 0.5
day 7: 0.25 - can i to avoid massive PAWS, continue with this dose for maybe a month ? And then another month on 0.125 ?

Wich kind of support medicines is used during the taper ? I know that a lot of people says that withdrawal symptoms is totally gone, when it is done this way, but can it really be true ? It cant be this simple ?

Im thinking of gabapentine ? clonodine ? black seed oil ? Aminoacids like l-tyrosine, phenylalanine etc. ?

All inputs are very much appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Gorillaboy21]

Damn lucky you how are you able to maintain 250 mgs oxy daily for 7 months that's expensive !!! Damn good for you lol, but to your post , if you can get gabapentin and all those medicines you listed easy than lucky you. Use gabapentin for sure it's a godsend I swear , also benzos obviously , smoke weed and edibles CBD also is magic . I'm in the same situation but with IV heroin gonna be sick during Christmas yay! I'm here for support as well as supporting others. I'm also planning to use subuxone my problem is always waiting long enough. I've managed to wait easily to hour 16-18 but I'm scared to take it still plus once I take it I know that after that point I won't get high nor feel the heroin for the next 24 hours at least ... so when I commit I have to commit for real and my worry is if I take it and don't get enough relief which has happened to me before . Wait till hour 20 At least take whatever you need to to get to that point , if you can wait tillhour 22-24 that would be ideal that's what I'm attempting to do now. It's a bitch though .
What country are you in what can you get access to benzos? Gaba?

 

[MangoDenmark]

Thanks for your answer Gorillaboy.
How big a dose for gabapentin are you taking when you are in withdrawal ? Does it help ?
Do you find CBD helpfull ? Large dose i guess ?
How much were you taking when you didnt get enough relief ?
So you suggest that i take whatever is needed to get me through the 24 hour mark before starting bupe ?
Im in Denmark, and im already on benzos together with the oxy, and im a bit scared, with benzos together with the bupe , but as im addicted to the benzos as well, i cant stop the benzos when shifting to bupe ??

 

[Gorillaboy21]

Nono don't stop your benzos if you're prescribed them already hell no , what are you taking daily as your benzo and how long ? And gabapentin I take 600-1800 mgs depending on the situation and if I have other things to help me or weed. I know weed isn't a problem for you in Denmark right ? Now I understand the 250 mg oxy a day habit , in America that would be really expensive for anybody to maintain I know in Europe it's different my friend gets 200 mgs morphine ER 3-4 times daily prescribed in Austria . If you can get gabapentin get it , and lots of it trust me . It'll potentiate the benzo feeling you probably lost by now , smoke weed wait 20-24+ hours and take bupe that's my plan , idk if you can get CBD GET THAT! Again even for me in Los angles California one of the most relaxed places for marijuana in USA and still CBD is expensive at the dispensary I won't post prices I think it's against the rules but you get the point ... I can only afford 50 mgs CBD once every 3 days maybe and I need 25 mgs at least to feel relief but normal thc edibles are cheap brownies gummies capsules etc take that edibles I swear by and gaba should help
EDIT: damn you educated bi:trilingual Europeans with your good English... your English is really good by the way . I speak Russian and Hebrew a bit Spanish but you guys keep it bilingual on a high scale!

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Mango, I've always recommended a fast buprenorphine taper and also have preached the bounty of positive effects that maintenance on a small amount of daily buprenorphine can provide. I myself did a fast taper and then came off, then noticed the depression (which was pre-existing and probably the main contributory element to my original heroin addiction). I alleviated the depression by taking 0.25mg buprenorphine/day for about a year. I've been off for about 4 months now. I still have sneezing fits, random chills, and a lowered average sleep time (around 5-6 hours/night) but it wasn't particularly difficult to come off of 0.25mg even after taking it every day for a year.

The relief it provided me from my depression was ultimately worth it.

So in short, your taper plan looks good, and the problems you had coming off of codeine in the past (depression, suicidal ideation, etc) can be alleviated by taking a very small amount of buprenorphine (not even every day - you can conceivably treat post-taper depression with 0.25mg taken every three days, even, possibly even 0.125mg).

Finally, to help you at the end of the taper, gabapentin and clonidine both provide considerable relief, and I myself rely heavily on cannabis, especially oral cannabis, since its effects are so much more pronounced and heavy/somnolescent. I never noticed any relief from anything obtainable OTC like amino acids or melatonin, or even loperamide. For me it was all buprenorphine, benzos, cannabis, and gabapentin, in descending order of efficacy.

 

[tathra]

I need confirmation that i do this the right way. I have never taken subs before, and i know that i should wait until i reach 26 on the COWS scale before i induct myself. That will take me like 15 hours i think.

you can actually start taking bupe almost immediately after your last full agonist dose, long before full wd actually kicks in, without getting precipitated wd, as long as you take 2mg or less sublingually once every 2 hours (you should still try to wait at least 6 hours though, and not take more than 2mg/2hrs for the first 12-24 hours). as long as you're only taking the bupe for the week it takes to get through the oxy wd you shouldnt have to worry about a bupe dependency popping up. i've never experienced PAWS myself so i cant speak to anything helpful there, but going with Phil's advice of 0.125mg every 2-3 days as necessary should suffice (if you're serious about quitting and staying quit, dont get trapped into a bupe dependency, so use it sparingly after that first week).

 

[JoeJunky]

When I was using subs to bridge gaps, I would just wait until I started to feel WD and take 1mg of sub, wait an hour or so, 1mg more, and so on until I felt fine. It's a little uncomfortable but hella better than the time I took 6mg of sub barely 24 hours after 80mg of methadone, pretty rough.

Question: I'm kicking .25of suboxone using tramadol and gabapentin. They prescribed me 100mg of tramadol and 100mg of gabapentin every 4 hours. I'm already tapering but anyone ever hear stories of people quitting suboxone to find out they're now hooked on tramadol or gabapentin?

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Imo tramadol is a bad way to taper as it's a SNRI and opioid, this way you can get dependent to both the opioid and SNRI effects which makes withdrawal worse. Imo something like codeine would be way better

 

[Keif' Richards]

^I agree with you Kleiner that the SNRI effects are not something you want to add into the mix in terms of dependence, but it's my differing opinion, that so long as the Tramadol is only being used as an aid to taper and not in any kind of long-term application, it's just as useful as Codeine.

 

[JoeJunky]

Thank you both, I will try codeine then.

I've never kicked such a small dose of sub, the tramadol is covering any w/d's (plus taking gabapentin). 5 days w/o sub and I tried to stop the tramadol and I get minor w/d's, so I take another 100mg of tramadol and I'm fine.

Not sure if it's still the sub or just my brain still craving any opioid. Going to try codeine and find out. Thanks again.