Opioids HELP!, Here is an off the wall odd question. Questions about (old) Laudanum.

[Rt11371]

Hello everybody!

I have a few questions after finding out that a friend of mine stumbled onto some old Laudanum so I was hoping people can shed some light on this for me primarily to inform me for harm reduction as I don't want to see him OD, get sick, get hurt or die. I figure if I can inform him of possible interactions, side effects, horror stories or other reasons why he should be careful or not do it I might get through better than if I just told him it wasn't a good idea.

The story goes like this, This friend of mine is in the Antiques appraisal & auction industry so I always hear stories about the interesting old things they come across. I don't know how they find some of the things they do because it seems like he's always talking about something I've never seen or heard of and usually it's fairly high $$ items. Anyways he calls me up on Thursday night and says " your never going to believe what I found ", I didn't think much of it and said "oh yah what's that" then he says they bought a complete old estate that was in the same family since the later 1800's and after going through some of the stuff he was cleaning out an old roll top desk and came across an old sealed paper box containing a sealed glass bottle stuck behind one of the pull out drawers. The label on the box and glass bottle says PURE Medicinal Laudanum, its about 3/4 full of a black substance but has never been opened. I did a little reasearch and it seems to me this was mixed with some kind of alcohol solution and I'm sure the alcohol evaporated leaving the remainder in the bottle. He was talking about it and said maybe it's like vintage wine and said it's prob ok to experiment with. Now I've had very old wine before from the 1920's & 30's with no problems but I didn't know what to tell him about this. He's going on the idea that it's a sealed bottle, was always inside and looks fine, from what I was reading there's alkaloids in there and I have no idea how long those are stable. He was saying he might open the bottle and add alcohol or warm water to it to make it a thin solution again. As I said I didn't really know what to tell him so I didn't say much as I didn't want to look at me as a "buzz kill" (no pun intended) and get the idea that he can't be honest with me about things but when I started to think about it i started to worry more. What kind of info, knowledge or support on this can you all give me, anything and everything is appreciated.

Thank You very much!

 

[g0to]

Who knows... If it was purely dissolved in alcohol and "sealed", it should still be preserved. Why not try the lowest dose and see if he gets sick or not? Of course perhaps smell it and see, is it rancid or not. The fact that its "Wet" leaves much to be described. Someone on here found some diamorphine tablets from around the same era, and sniffed/iv'd them with no harm done(if I remember correctly). But those are dry tablets. Nobody really knows, and there are types of filters n stuff to get rid of potential bacteria of a solution like that in a dose-by-dose fashion

 

[Rt11371]

Who knows... If it was purely dissolved in alcohol and "sealed", it should still be preserved. Why not try the lowest dose and see if he gets sick or not? Of course perhaps smell it and see, is it rancid or not. The fact that its "Wet" leaves much to be described. Someone on here found some diamorphine tablets from around the same era, and sniffed/iv'd them with no harm done(if I remember correctly). But those are dry tablets. Nobody really knows, and there are types of filters n stuff to get rid of potential bacteria of a solution like that in a dose-by-dose fashion

Who knows is kind of what I told him also, obviously without knowing 100% exactly what all the "Ingredients" were other than the obvious it's so hard to tell as I asked him what it all said on the box and bottle and he said just the name, basic instructions & mfg name along with location. With that being said all a person has to go off of is historical data from the era, after some researching I found a bunch of recipes and articles which basically say the concoction was mostly universally made by the same methods and ingredients across the board with the exception to some companies adding things like honey, molasses or other kinds of flavors & sweeteners inorder to make it more manageable to drink and appealing primarily for use on children. Now going off of what he said, the box and bottle both say the same exact thing with the same label and it says in uppercase bigger letters PURE Medicinal Laudanum and also gives directions very similar to what I've read in online recipes for alcohol based Laudanum so that's why I'm willing to bet it was a alcohol solution with little to no additional ingredients. After doing some thinking about it I also agree if it was in fact a alcohol solution one would think it would be preserved if sealed but that is why I was asking if the alkaloid ingredients can degrade, breakdown or spoil over time. I told him I wouldn't try it, primarily because I was on RX pain medication for 5 years due to severe back problems and that was difficult enough to get off of and I've been off for some time now and don't want to go back! The other reason is I would be afraid of getting sick from it if it can in fact go bad. Now he's not like me and I'm surprised he didn't dive into it as soon as he figured out what it was since he's a "partier" but I'm glad he's being cautious or at least says he is so that's why I want to get answers so I can help him since he's not the type to research anything much.

Thank you for the reply btw!

 

[JBrandon]

So just make an alcohol tincture of it and try it orally first. No clue why everyone has to jump straight to the needle when we're talking exotics and relics.

 

[ovo1024]

Who knows... If it was purely dissolved in alcohol and "sealed", it should still be preserved. Why not try the lowest dose and see if he gets sick or not? Of course perhaps smell it and see, is it rancid or not. The fact that its "Wet" leaves much to be described. Someone on here found some diamorphine tablets from around the same era, and sniffed/iv'd them with no harm done(if I remember correctly). But those are dry tablets. Nobody really knows, and there are types of filters n stuff to get rid of potential bacteria of a solution like that in a dose-by-dose fashion

I thought about that same guy when reading OPs post. Lol

 

[svacheme3]

Well its almost certainly fine for oral use. Yes things degrade and break down, but that will reduce potency not turn it into poison. Very interesting though, would love to hear results.

 

[Rt11371]

Obviously I can't control what he does but if he's going to use it I want it to be the safest way possible. I can post his findings but I will say I don't agree with it, I've lost friends and family to cancer, natural causes, accidents and other things but losing someone to negligence isn't acceptable and I don't know how I would cope if I knew I could of done more but didn't.

 

[OntarioGuy]

So just make an alcohol tincture of it and try it orally first. No clue why everyone has to jump straight to the needle when we're talking exotics and relics.

Who said anything about shooting it? Did I miss that part?

Someone on here found some diamorphine tablets from around the same era, and sniffed/iv'd them with no harm done(if I remember correctly). But those are dry tablets.

Actually he got quite ill.

This should be fine though if dissolved in alcohol and used orally

 

[tacodude]

The heroin person got ill due to overdosing.

I'd dissolve it in water, filter it through a 90 micron mesh screen, and then evaporate the water to leave a product that's smokable or possible to encapsulate and eat.

 

[OntarioGuy]

The heroin person got ill due to overdosing.

I'd dissolve it in water, filter it through a 90 micron mesh screen, and then evaporate the water to leave a product that's smokable or possible to encapsulate and eat.

There u go, tacodude laid down a method that, in theory (I'm sure in practice too) should yield an ingestable product.

Still too paranoid, load it into a big 10cc syringe with a leur lock and push the alcohol solution through a micron filter meant for prepping IV solutions.

Evaporating that should be very clean.
But ya, since it's pure opium there shouldn't be like chunks of poppy straw I don't think, alcohol should kill the germs, so tacodudes method should be completely fine. The finer micron will remove more of the very fine insolubles tho.

 

[JBrandon]

I'd argue whether he actually got "ill" or just got overshot his dosage. I've certainly had dysphoric heroin experiences that matched his symptoms. Considering they arose and abated within the time frame of a heroin dose, I'd argue that there was no serious infection involved.

 

[CousinCocaine]

I typed this earlier but got off track.

I'm not an expert but I'll tell you what I know (or at least what I think I know) based on what I've read before. If I remember correctly laudanum is a mixture of morphine (probably also some other alkaloids considering the extraction method used was fairly primitive) and a very high proof grain alcohol. During the time there was also a similar product on the market referred to as "Elixir of Opium" like laudanum it contained strong grain alcohol but also included other alkaloids found in opium rather than almost exclusively morphine. The use of which began to skyrocket throughout the civil war, and was followed by thousands of cases of addiction. Really surprising that people would get addicted to a mixture of alcohol + morphine and/or other narcotics, right? Considering it was available in pretty much any general store (prescription free obviously) the addiction rate wasn't as bad as many people would think, guess that's just another example of how idiotic and ineffective modern drug laws are and is basically a huge FUCK YOU to the DEA. Sorry I went off on a rant there I just despise the DEA.

Depending on the year (think it was on the market from around 1860-1920s or somewhere in that area, but as ofa few years ago Elixir of opium was still prescribed in rare cases and was on the list of exempted narcotics) that it's from there might be something indicating how strong the concentration of morphine actually is, and possibly even recommended dosage. I don't know what the "shelf life" (or whatever) of morphine is off the top of my head, but if it was kept in a sealed container protected from the light there's a good chance it's still at least somewhat active. The alcohol is almost certainly still safe. I don't think morphine would degrade into something dangerous but it most likely will have lost it's potency to some extent but you might wanna research that further just to be safe.

I definitely would not recommend IVing it for ANY reason. I also wouldn't add alcohol to it if it's too thick because too much alcohol with morphine is very dangerous, as I'm sure you're already aware + you don't wanna mess up the concentration . If it were me I would put some into some empty capsules and eati them or better yet smoke it like H or opium. I've been fascinated with this substance for years but never had the chance to actually try it, it's kinda like one of those other legendary drugs you hear of but know you probably won't be able to ever try like Quaaludes. As far as I know it's what first created junkies in North America. In my research, nearly all of the people who wrote about their experiences with it mentioned it's highly addictive qualities. In fact I think heroin was originally made to help morphine/laudanum addicts, and we know how that turned out lol... Hope it's still active. I also hope you and/or your friend know how lucky you are to find such an oddity in the world of psychoactive substances. To be honest I'm kinda jealous, but I am glad someone who might enjoy it find it, rather than some fucking narc who would've destroyed it, just the thought of someone like that makes me wanna puke. Also even if its too old to have an effect there are most likely quite a few collectors who would pay A LOT for the empty bottle alone especially if it's in really good condition as I imagine from your description. Civil war museums are one of the first places I think would be interested because it was such an important item for the medics on both sides , so be really careful when handling it especially with the label. Also I would imagine Erowid and other similar websites would love to have a picture of the sealed bottle.

 

[Coolwhip]

Laudanum wasn't made for addicts with huge tolerances, it was given to women and children with no tolerance for example, it probably isn't super strong. I don't know his experience with opiates, but personally I'd take a teaspoon of it and wait an hour, if he feels nothing try a tablespoon, if nothing from that a shot glass. I know most morphine elixirs at the turn of the century were something like 5-15mg of morphine per teaspoon, although laudanum is a different animal as it was made with opium or raw poppy pods then filtered and not pure morphine. I imagine its akin to concentrated poppy pod tea with alcohol thrown into the mix andd whatever effects he get won't be "clean" because of all the other poppy alkaloids contained within...he could get quite ill(upset stomach, histamine reaction, headache, dizziness).

But unless he does something stupid like drinking a lot at once the chances of him having an opiate overdose are quite slim, and if he has any kind of opiate tolerance he's more likely to have a negative experience from the side effects before he gets an opiate high. Now if he has no tolerance a small-medium dose could have him feeling quite nice.

A lttle off topic, but back when I was into pod tea I would make it with water and a bottle of golden grain and then filter before evaporating off the alcohol(then filter again) because it was a lot easier to filter with a large volume of liquid and much easier to concentrate by evaporating the alcohol then trying to evaporate water. Just to be clear, I would make the pod tea, filter with a mesh screen, then add the golden grain before filtering with finer mediums. I did this because I assumed starting with alcohol would extract all sorts of things I didn't want in my final product.(like plant oils and such) in the end I found this to be much more palatable and potent than just using water, and a LOT faster than just using water and filtering through finer and finer and finer mediums. I just couldn't handle drinking the slurry/suspension that most people would refer to as "tea". But I also did this in large batches and kept a jug or two in the fridge with lots of sugar added, where I think most people would whip it up one dose at a time and basically made it like coffee. And tolerance would make me run into the problems I described above, eventually to get "high" from the tea I would begin experiencing untolerable side effects from the other alkaloids.