Opioids Heavy Tolerance - Dilaudid Oral

[supercollider]

I know this 6' 180 lbs male that uses opiates every once in a while, once a month, every couple weeks...
He has developed a large tolerance to hydrocodone, his typical drug of choice and can dose up to 110mg and still function.
He doses anywhere from 80-100 on a regular basis and gets strong euphoria, itchiness, and a slight nod. It's his recreational drug of choice.
He is prescribed a high dose of Xanax and doesn't mix the two drugs, but also has a very high tolerance to it, as well...

He has recently came upon 24 2mg Dilaudid pills. He doesn't mess with needles, and prefers not to snort pills, as he always seems to get a terrible drip, stuffed nose, and the experience is never as pleasurable. He has never plugged before and also would rather not... for obvious reasons.

He is wondering how many of these pills would be a similar significant sized dose compared to 100mg of hydrocodone.
He is looking for euphoria, extreme nods, and a great experience, as he is heard that Dilaudid is sometimes comparable to Morphine/Heroin.

How many pills should he consume to accrue the desired high, in your opinion?

Thanks, guys.

 

[cuivre]

Just out of curiosity, what "obvious reasons" are there not to plug if it happens to be the superior method of consumption excluding needles? (Avoiding needles I agree with 100%.) I mean, do what you want to do but what is 'obvious' to you sounds as though it can only be a poorly informed prejudgment to me. And as a matter of fact, for a lot of people plugging is indeed the superior method of hydromorphone consumption compared to oral and intranasal.

Hydrocodone and hydromorphone basically have a 4:1 ratio orally, but when switching opioids it's safest not to take the exact equivalent amount to account for incomplete cross-tolerance. The equivalent amount is about 20-24mg, but a 25% reduction (at least) is prudent so... 16mg would probably be an OK place to start. Oral hydromorphone is really kind of a tricky one for recreational use IMO. Undoubtedly it is a potent pain reliever regardless of how it is taken but this isn't the same as being a recreational wunderdrug. I've known plenty of people with larger opioid tolerances who couldn't get their rocks off with oral hydromorphone, although this won't necessarily be you. That said, I do believe there are two far better ways to consume hydromorphone to get more bang for your buck that don't involve needles, but you've already ruled them out.

If I were you, I'd start with 16mg or even a titch less to be on the safe side knowing that it might not be enough. You can always add, but never subtract.

 

[supercollider]

Well, I've never stuck anything up my ass before... but if that's truly the best way to take them I'd give it a try. I don't have an oral syringe, though, so I am not sure how to go about it. Any suggestions? I have heard that sniffing them is better than swallowing them. I've read that some people say Dilly's taken orally, is completely worthless... and I don't want it to be a waste of money. I guess I am open to anything but needles - even though I've heard that IS, indeed, the preferred route.

I plan on dosing tomorrow, so I just wanted to have a plan in mind.

 

[cuivre]

Well you know the thing is with dilaudid and needles is that the really super-duper awesome part only lasts about 10 minutes. The entire thing definitely lasts longer than that but IV dilaudid is practically all about the rush, and for me personally I'd take a longer high almost any day. Granted, I've only been given IV dilaudid in the hospital so I'm sure if I had chosen my own dose I could have gotten more out of it but still, definitely a short-lived experience either way. I mean there are so many reasons not to use needles but at least some other drugs work a little longer...

Again, it's not that I'd call oral dilaudid a complete waste. I'd just call it a waste for most recreational users who have a decent tolerance. I'm sure that there are some avid opioid users who could come on here and say that they love oral dilaudid but I think for every one of them there's a large handful who don't. If you were more opioid naive (with a correspondingly smaller dose) or in physical pain it would probably be flippin awesome or just help the discomfort, respectively.

Plugging versus snorting is a little bit of a toss-up as I've read that there can be a pretty big range in absorption capabilities from person to person in both the nose and rectum. You might want to try both if you can. Dosing suggestion is really tough with those again because of the potential range, but it is WAY easier to add more when snorting or plugging than it is when eating I've found. By that I mean that redosing 25-30 minutes later in either case tends to actually have an effect for me, whereas redosing most opiates orally 50-60 minutes later because I haven't taken enough is almost always a waste.

As far as I can tell I absorb dilaudid really well rectally. It takes SO MUCH less for me than any other method save IV. At this point in my use I'm still taking a lot but when I first started plugging I think I was taking about 4mg of dilaudid compared to 30mg of oxy by mouth or about that. The only reason I'm pointing that out is because I always try to be conservative with dosing advice, and knowing how strong it can be for some folks makes me want to be even more so in this situation. I really don't want to give you unsafe advice but I know it's not like 2mg of insufflated or rectal dilaudid is going to do much for you with your hydrocodone habit... maybe 6-8mg is an OK place to start when plugging, another 2 if snorting? I can go and convert these numbers all I want (and have been) but I'm having a little difficulty figuring out what to say when from all I've read it seems that ~8-10mg of rectal dilaudid could be alternatively perfect or not nearly enough for someone with your tolerance. Maybe you only need 8, maybe you need 16. I certainly don't want you to feel nothing although I'd rather that and you have to successfully add more than start with too much.

I swear plugging does not have to be painful or even all that complicated. If you have any specific questions about it I'd be happy to answer them but it's a bit of an unfounded stigma bred from a number of factors IMO. Sure your ass is a bit of a dirty area, but take a good long shit before you plug, lube up the syringe well before insertion, and keep some hand sanitizer nearby for afterwards and it's really no big deal. If it's not clear I have a slight preference for this over insufflation with dilaudid but sniffing really may be an entirely viable method for you. I think your biggest problem would be the amount of powder created by 2mg pills depending on what dose you would need and trying to fit that up your nose, which might end up making plugging the best combination of easier (than snorting) and way more effective (than oral).

 

[supercollider]

Do you NEED an oral syringe to plug? Or is there any other way? I'd give it a shot, I just don't have a syringe and live in a small town where I doubt I could pick one up anywhere.

 

[cuivre]

That's really the best way, because something set up like a turkey baster (not literally, too big) with a bulb on the top could end up with the liquid being forced back out since there's no plunger to block off the open space.

Oral syringes can be found at literally almost any pharmacy, as they are a standard tool for dosing baby medicine.

Failing this, could you order a couple and try snorting in the meantime, or keep using the hydrocodone?

Failing that you could just sniff.

 

[supercollider]

First time using I'll sniff, and dose throughout the day as necessary, oral/nasal, depending on how I feel.
Thanks a lot for the advice. I'll let you know how I like it.

 

[supercollider]

I just checked with my buddy who works at the drug store in town and they DO sell syringes. I am going to need a step by step on how to plug this stuff.
BTW, I just sniffed 2mg about 5 minutes ago and I am already feeling it. Just a few tingles.

But, I decided, after re-reading your advice and doing more research that I will try to plug it. I will purchase an oral syringe tomorrow. Could you give me a step-by-step guide on how I should go about this. I apologize for being so new to this.

1. warm water, oral syringe, dilaudid powder (I will decide on the mg tomorrow)

I know that is my starting point.

How much water should I use?
How should I position myself? haha
How long should I leave the syringe in to let it absorb?
Warm water I'm guessing?
How quick should the effects come on?
Just give me some tips on things I should avoid doing and tips to make the process an easy one.

Thanks again for all the help, cuivre.

 

[Runtoparadise]

^Thats great, informative & educational along with HR advice,- kudos @Cuivre.

I'm extremely experienced with opiates & would've said pretty much just that. OP, buckle up, plugging is the best,(apart from IV), IMHO. Other methods are a waste.

Even the first time, it's not as bad as ud imagine, just relax & don't make a big deal about it. Don't know if it was mentioned above,- but id advise u to lay on ur side & after dosing, squeeze ur sphincter tight as possible & stay like that at least five mins before standing.

Have fun,

Rtp

 

[supercollider]

If cuivre doesn't reply, runtoparadise, could you help me out?

Could you give me a step-by-step guide on how I should go about this? I apologize for being so new to this.

1. warm water, oral syringe, dilaudid powder (I will decide on the mg tomorrow)

I know that is my starting point.

How much water should I use?
How long should I leave the syringe in to let it absorb before pulling it out and tightening my sphincter?
Warm water I'm guessing?
How quick should the effects come on?
Just give me some tips on things I should avoid doing and tips to make the process an easy one.

Thanks, guys.

 

[supercollider]

cuivre: I can't message you back for 180 minutes and I had a question...

While covering the bottom of the plunger-less syringe barrel with your finger, dump the powder in... a light tap will get it moving if it's stuck in the index card. Getting the plunger in is the next and trickiest part, especially in a new syringe, but it's really not impossible. Maybe you can practice with some tylenol in a spare syringe if you buy a few.

So when I buy the syringe, I need to remove the plunger, cover the "squirting hole" with my finger, dump the powder in, insert the plunger, flip it over, fill it 2/3 of the way full with lukewarm water and then insert it so about 1/3 of the way in so that all of the solution is inserted? After that, just remain in that position on my side for a half hour? That doesn't sound too hard. Thanks for filling me in.

 

[cuivre]

Yeah, that's really it. You don't need to take the plunger out immediately, just right before you're actually going to plug, and that's just how I do it to cut down on what's lost. I mentioned at the end of the message that it's confusing or just not working you can always mix the water and drugs first but I find this more wasteful. Of course it's wasteful if your drugs come blasting out of the syringe when the plunger is put back in so just be cautious. Also to clarify when I said you could practice doing that with tylenol, I didn't mean to plug it... hopefully that was obvious

The way you summarized it sounds right on the money to me. I was detailed in the message since you asked for the super step-by-step but it pretty much is that simple. The most complicated part is getting the drugs in the syringe in the way I described to minimize waste, and that's not hard.

Thank you Run! I think I mentioned being on one's side in my PM to supercollider but always good to reinforce... getting up too soon can basically ruin the experience IME. I try and stay put for as long as I can. Thank you for the kind words too.

 

[Nicholai]

I've shot a shitton of dope and a shitton of dilly, and trust me, the two are not at all alike.

Plugging dilly has the same bioavailability as oral, really, %36 if I'm remembering correctly. Honestly, I would just snort em....shocked that you got off only 2mg, with a hydrocodone tolly like that...

No dosing advice...too risky, sorry.

 

[supercollider]

I just got a few tingles. I plan on plugging 16mg after doing a bit of conversion. How long will the drugs take to settle in before I get my high? ...It would be quite a bit of powder to sniff. I may sniff a bit if I decide the dose is insufficient. Sorry to ask another novice question, but how long do you think I will have opiates in my system? Does plugging increase the duration?

 

[cuivre]

Wait wait wait, if you got anything-- even the slightest tingle-- out of 2mg when snorted you shouldn't be jumping right to 16 to plug. 4mg? 6? 8? I know your tolerance is high but that's a huge amount to just go for it. Incomplete cross tolerance can end up causing a huge equivalency difference. Just because you are so tolerant to hydrocodone doesn't necessarily make you equally tolerant to hydromorphone, though of course you will be some. What happened to always being able to add more?? I thought you were trying to responsible here.

I really can't figure out how you got to 16mg. The average BA of hydromorphone is about the same as oral but can be much higher. On the old forum I was on there was no linking to dot gov sites which are the only sources (well mostly NIH) I can find corroborating this, but if I can post them I will. Maybe only ~30% will be absorbed, but it could be twice that. If it's the latter, you are going to be feeling pretty poorly.

Starting at 16mg, even with your tolerance, is straight up foolish. You'll do what you want to do just like everyone does, but why someone would start there when it's so easy to do less and add more if needed is completely beyond me.

 

[supercollider]

I had no idea that I was that off? I've heard of people taking 60mg orally their first time with no tolerance... I guess everyone's different. I will start under 10mg for sure, if that's what you think is safe. You have had excellent advice. Answer to my other questions??

 

[cuivre]

Sorry, and I really didn't mean to be a dick about it or anything. I just don't want you to end up vomiting all over or worse if I could have said something about it. Plugging is just a totally different animal than oral use, is all. For like the umpteenth time, Nicholai isn't wrong that it may be about the same as oral but there's just no way to know how well you would absorb it. So far what little scientific information I can find does back up that rectal absorption of hydromorphone can be as low as a few percent, as high as 65%+, with 35% or so being right smack in the middle. EVEN IF the absorption rate is the same, there are other reasons rectal use is better than oral for most people, not least of which is the faster onset of action. It's just smart to be safe with dosing the first time you're trying a new ROA. For all I know, you will ultimately need 16mg. It's just entirely possible you need much less.

I don't think I can answer your question about how long it will stay in your system as this is almost a drug test question which aren't allowed on here.

Plugging increases duration over injection, should have a similar or IME longer duration than insufflation, and a little less than oral which is never fun. The duration is one of the multiple factors that make it my personal preferred ROA for dilaudid.

 

[supercollider]

Thanks again. I'll let you know how it goes. Better to play it safe. Add more later, rather than dosing highly early... I know that's inportant to always remember.

 

[cuivre]

Definitely, and no problem. I'm not trying to be preachy but any time I answer questions about opioid use I go back and forth about how much I need to say about how much they SUCK and are LIFE RUINERS and especially when I don't really, the least I can try and do is make sure someone is dosing safe. I would be the first person to tell you when the dose needs to be taken all at once for effect, but I can promise that at least in my own experience, adding more dilaudid when plugging is always successful (as long as it hasn't been hours!) so there's no reason to start huge.

 

[supercollider]

I followed your steps, 8mg... Mission complete. The first time I depressed the plunger I noticed that, even though I shook it up, there was still white residue on the black stopper, so I filled it up halfway and emptied most of it. When I was washing the syringe, I noticed that there was still a small amount of powder but I guess it's probably hard to go without wasting a very small amount. It wasn't hard at all and depending on how I start to feel, I would probably do it again.

Thanks for helping out the new guy.