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Benzos Healthiest benzo?

Ho-Chi-Minh said:
I don't think you'd be able to find that answer at all, much less with pharmacodynamic theory. You'd need a meta-analysis of double-blind, placebo controlled longitudinal studies comparing all the kinds of benzos. This doesn't exist. Also, if all drugs affected all people the same, there would be no need to synthesize and market multiple drugs for the same basic illness. I'm kind of surprised that you're asking this, as (if I recall right) some of your previous posts appreciated the complexity of this whole thing.
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I think it's obivous that OP is looking for general thoughts/opinions--not the holy grail of information on benzos. If I ask who should be elected president of the US on an online forum, I'm not expecting an objective meta-analysis with an indesputable conclusion lol
 
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"general thoughts"?

I can pretty much guarantee you that he doesn't want opinions. He wants facts. He's looking for the least harmful benzo. Not someone who says that this or that benzo didn't harm them much.

Can you explain who will be elected president by science? Completely different realms.
 
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
"general thoughts"?

I can pretty much guarantee you that he doesn't want opinions. He wants facts. He's looking for the least harmful benzo. Not someone who says that this or that benzo didn't harm them much.

Can you explain who will be elected president by science? Completely different realms.
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It's a perfect analogy because you obviously can't definitively say which benzo is best. There will be some trial and error, an it largely depends on specifically what youre talking about. You can't definitively say who the best president will be. There will be some trial and error, and it largely depends on specifically what youre talking about.

I guess if you don't want opinions, you're going to have to become omniscient. Not even science will be completely objective (but maybe the closest thing).

Anyways, I'm not going to thread jack with a pissing contest. PM me if you feel compelled to rebut.
 
muie said:
I don't know which are the safest but I can certainly will tell you which ones are the worst (IMO & IME) in terms of cognition and long term organ damage.

The absolute worst especially for cognitive function & for long term organ damage:
1. Lorazepam (with small to medium tolerance, any dose above 2mg+ will provide extreme amnesia). I've tried more benzos than I care to admit and I've never encountered another benzo that produces this much amnesia at a medicinal dose.

Something to look out for is the class of benzodiazepines called 'nitrobenzodiazepines' which are carcinogenic and much more dangerous than other benzos. I've been taking 4mg/day clonazepam, without skipping a day for the last 12years, ever since 2004!

Below is a direct quote from a very reliable source that I saved and if pestered with comments to give the reference, although I don't know it, it shouldn't be a problem finding it...in case there are skeptics :)

"Nitrobenzodiazepines such as nitrazepam, nimetazepam, flunitrazepam, and clonazepam are more toxic to the liver than other benzodiazepines as they are metabolically activated by CYP3A4 which can result in cytotoxicity. This activation can lead to the generation of free radicals and oxidation of thiol, as well as covalent binding with endogenous macromolecules; this results, then, in oxidation of cellular components or inhibition of normal cellular function. Metabolism of a nontoxic drug to reactive metabolites has been causally connected with a variety of adverse reactions. Nitrazepam has been associated with severe hepatic disorders, similar to other nitrobenzodiazepines. Clonazepam is a chlorinated derivative of nitrazepam and therefore a chloro-nitrobenzodiazepine."

I hope this helped!

BTW, Keif' the reason it is said benzos are 'healthier' is because of their therapeutic index, and that reason alone!!! More dangerous drugs like barbiturates, or worse (methaqualone) which have a very narrow therapeutic index meaning that their medicinal dose is very close to their lethal dose/overdose. The comment made by Keif' can be very mislead as far as harm reduction goes! Benzos are still physically and mentally addictive and produce both physical and psychological withdraws. With time benzos not only destroy the body's organs but significantly interfere with the brains day to day operations such as memory or cognitive performance. Barbiturates on the other hand have never gotten in the way of memory or learning, even though their therapeutic index is much narrower. Therefore, Keif' no, benzos are not healthier!
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I am curios about this reliable source where it says Klonopin is more toxic to the liver, but you have been taking them for 12 years. Is it at a very high dose that it is toxic or what? You can put that kind of information out there without giving a better explanation as to dosage amounts etc.
 
Valium or Klonopin.

But any benzodiazepine will mess you up when taking for a while.

I got a friend that has been taking Klonopin 2mg for almost 15 years, he swears he is handicapped because of it and never feels "normal".

Benzodiazepines are not for long term treatment
 
Muie said it all. I know this yet take 2mg of clonazepam daily. Also since 2001.

Alprazolam seems the cleanest to me despite it's ability to induce amnesia, especially with alcohol. This is absolutely nonexistent with clonazepam and alcohol to me and most I know... I have always wondered this. Alpraz, temazepam, diazepam and alcohol watch out. Especially alprazolam. Mercy. Yet diabolicaly the healthiest. Dirty bastard.
 
rave23 said:
Valium or Klonopin.

But any benzodiazepine will mess you up when taking for a while.

I got a friend that has been taking Klonopin 2mg for almost 15 years, he swears he is handicapped because of it and never feels "normal".

Benzodiazepines are not for long term treatment
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handicapped because of klonopin?did he say how it affects him negatively?
 
Please Somebody provide actual medical facts. I know they are intended for short-term usen but there are some of us that have been prescribed them for many years.
 
Diazapam has active metabolites, one of which is temazepam, which has the highest ld50 of any benzo. It causes far, far more problems per headbanger on it's lonesome than any other benzo. Lorazepam is known to induce hallucinations, even at moderate doses. The risks of nitro-benzodiazepines has already been stated. Starting to really shrink this list....
 
Keif' Richards said:
Memantine, could you possibly elaborate as to what you're looking for relief from? Why do you need a strong anticonvulsant specifically?

Long-term treatment wih Benzodiazepines is where tolerance and dependence can come into play and screw you two-fold in that your medicine can stop working, while you require more medicine just to get yourself normal. I'm not saying every chronic Benzodiazepine user becomes a shaky, convulsing mess, but you can become reliant on them.

Alprazolam is great, sure. It's strong, with a fast onset and powerful anxiolysis. Temazepam has a lot of the same qualities; fast, strong, etc. but, I would think that if you wanted a more constant "level" you would want a longer-acting drug, like Diazepam or Clonazepam for instance.
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Because I was born in a kind off permanent state of benzodiazepine withdrawal. I'm overly anxious about everything. Sounds are way to loud, light is way to bright etc. Also I have permanent "neurological" tinnitus which is triggered by loud noises and suppressed by benzodiazepines.

Also I have anger and sleep problems.
 
If I had to guess I'd say pyrazolam since it's not metabolized into anything and doesn't make you high which means you won't take it all the time. But that's just a guess. The patent for nifoxipam also contains n-methyl nifoxipam which is supposed to be stronger than flunitrazepam and less toxic. The nitro group will make it carcenogenic to some extent but how much really depends on it's metabolism. If most of it gets glucuronidated and then pissed out then the carcinogenic effects should be minimal (since they depend on the nitro group being metabolized to an amino group).

All of them cause cognitive impairment with long term use, which is at least partially reversible (we don't really know if it's partially or fully reversible).

In single doses they are all very safe and oding on only benzos is very hard.
 
belfort said:
handicapped because of klonopin?did he say how it affects him negatively?
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I only have anecdotal tentative evidence for this as is described to me by my friend.

The main things he points out is memory impairment, problems with speech and finding ways to express his thoughts, not being able to articulate himself properly, and a permanent lack of desire to accomplish anything. Keep in mind his point of reference is 15 years old. In his words "I feel muted all the time every day". He also describes a perceived lack of fine motor control, even though he manages most things just fine, he feels as if though he is extremely clumsy.
 
rave23 said:
I only have anecdotal tentative evidence for this as is described to me by my friend.

The main things he points out is memory impairment, a permanent lack of desire to accomplish anything
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that's what ssris did to me in a bit over a month along with no emotions, dick not working and withdrawal from hell (brain zaps all the time, really bad anxiety, insomnia) worse than any benzo did even in crazy doses (grams of clam/flam over a few months) and no taper... no wds and normal tolerance in a few weeks...... while I still don't feel the ssri effects are gone even after months

not to mention that the ssris didn't help with anything, unlike benzos

so fuck that shit
 
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