Opioids Health benefit from Opiates/Opioids

[somnilicious]

Off Topic :Libertines Forever! ❤ ?

I still remember the first time I heard their first album in a music store. I was blown away... It had been what I had been waiting for. I had already been a fan of punk, in all it's forms, and adored the clash. Especially the London Calling album and the Libertines were a newer more raw and raucous form of what I had loved. In America being a Libertines fan was a very fringe group. You had to have stumbled upon them. This opening song still brings back the nostalgia from the first time I popped on the CD and knew I had to have it.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

We should move on over to the music forum to share our Libertines song appreciation. BTW... What do you think about the Babyshambles?

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Kratom isnt IMO a true opioid. It activates opiate receptors but it is much more complex.

Kratom is an opioid, but it isn't an opiate.

An opioid is any drug which agonises the opioid receptors. Kratom does this even though it is only a partial agonist. But if that fact is enough to exclude it from being considered an opioid, you must exclude buprenorphine too... so it gets a bit pointless to split hairs like that.

The accepted medical definition is any drug with opioid receptor agonist activity is an opioid. Like tramadol being another example, is an SNRI that happens to have opioid properties too. It's not an opiate as it does not originate from the poppy, but it is an opioid as it agonises the opioid receptors.

Kratom is a plant related to the coffee plant that only grows in Indonesia, but it happens to agonise the opioid receptors, so it is an opioid. It's not an opiate however as it does not come from the poppy.

Regular opiates like codeine, morphine, oxy, and what have you can be described as both opioids and opiates. They agonise the opioid receptors and they also originate from the poppy (even if, in the case of oxy and most modern pharmas, it is semi-synthetic - it still requires natural opiate extraction from the poppy to synthesise).

 

[Sertürner]

^ mitragynine is an opioid but i dont consider the plant itself as an opioid. Rather, it is a plant that contains a few opioid compounds. So while I disagree with the above statement, with all due respect, it is just my opinion.

Pharmacology of Kratom: An Emerging Botanical Agent With Stimulant, Analgesic and Opioid-Like Effects Walter C. Prozialeck, PhD; Jateen K. Jivan, BS; Shridhar V. Andurkar, PhD

I do agree that we are getting into semantics here though @wilson and my post went a bit off course to the thread.

 

[Keif' Richards]

"Health Benefits" Are we speaking in generalities here? Opioids make me feel less like the entire malevolent world is out to get me and the only question is whether I will beat the world to it. You can absolutely swear off romance/women what have you if you'd like. It's actually pretty strange when you stop using Opioids and your sex drive is... cranking. I was on a date this past Tuesday and to be blunt, it was pretty much as quick and embarrassing as my very first time. 10 seconds. Maybe.

Opioids do not so much produce health benefits so much as they take the place of many of your basic functions. You feel less hunger, less thirst, less drive for sex. In my opinion the concept of health benefits is more like, you're either on them and living it or you are not an Opioid user. Opioids are not a true substitute for life. For food. For sleep or whatever. It is a complete substitution of a different reality with little ability to take into account the positives and negatives.

 

[Quere]

Lope is so much more of a peripheral opioid as well, it's difficult to throw that in with others that are just as much central and peripheral. Even Diphenoxylate would be more fitting than Loperamide for this thread.

Ah man that takes me back, at one point a long time ago I maintained my opioid dependence by walking around the city going to a different pharmacy everyday and shoplifting at least 3 or 4 packets of diastop (Diphenoxylate + an extremely insignificant amount of atropine). I actually enjoyed it more than morphine (apart from the fact that you can IV morphine), it took a few hours to come on like how methadone does and lasted 24 hrs. I think I took between 150mg - 300mg per day.

Eventually they discontinued it in my country, I imagine because of a small cult following of people abusing it heavily.

I never experienced any disturbing symptoms from it unlike with loperamide although I initially worried about delirium etc from the atropine until I realised that at 0.025mg atropine per tablet even taking 6 packets of 20 tablets only made 3 mg atropine divided by 4 (for an oral bioavailability of 25% )=.75mg atropine (ld50 for atropine is 453mg).

But yeah loperamide seems to be a lot more harmful

Not that taking any medication at doses so far beyond their recommended dose can really be considered 'safe'

 

[nznity]

I still remember the first time I heard their first album in a music store. I was blown away... It had been what I had been waiting for. I had already been a fan of punk, in all it's forms, and adored the clash. Especially the London Calling album and the Libertines were a newer more raw and raucous form of what I had loved. In America being a Libertines fan was a very fringe group. You had to have stumbled upon them. This opening song still brings back the nostalgia from the first time I popped on the CD and knew I had to have it.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

We should move on over to the music forum to share our Libertines song appreciation. BTW... What do you think about the Babyshambles?

PM me asap as u read this to have a serious convo about bilos work.

 

[nznity]

"Health Benefits" Are we speaking in generalities here? Opioids make me feel less like the entire malevolent world is out to get me and the only question is whether I will beat the world to it. You can absolutely swear off romance/women what have you if you'd like. It's actually pretty strange when you stop using Opioids and your sex drive is... cranking. I was on a date this past Tuesday and to be blunt, it was pretty much as quick and embarrassing as my very first time. 10 seconds. Maybe.

Opioids do not so much produce health benefits so much as they take the place of many of your basic functions. You feel less hunger, less thirst, less drive for sex. In my opinion the concept of health benefits is more like, you're either on them and living it or you are not an Opioid user. Opioids are not a true substitute for life. For food. For sleep or whatever. It is a complete substitution of a different reality with little ability to take into account the positives and negatives.

ita very subjective. depends on what u consider health benefits to begin with... ?

 

[Hylight]

Please read our BLUA
Red font is for STAFF only
No bumping threads here anymore

 

[HoldBack]

I don't think Supra Therapeutic levels of Lopermide fall into the same class as opioids used at regular to relatively high levels. I mean, even an opioid abuser only uses around 10x the recommended dosage. Not usually into the hundreds of times the effective dose.

Lope is so much more of a peripheral opioid as well, it's difficult to throw that in with others that are just as much central and peripheral. Even Diphenoxylate would be more fitting than Loperamide for this thread.

I don't know of any others that mess with the hERG cardio pace making system like Lope either, aside from Methadone above 200mg. At least it's doing quite a bit before hitting that level,

I didn’t really intend to group full synthetics with opiates and semi-synthetics.

I was just trying to say that my h addiction caused extreme health problems that I’m still dealing with albeit indirectly with a fully synthetic opioid.

As stated, heroin itself is largely benign and o don’t have evidence to support the assertion but I don’t think it has radical effects on testosterone levels like methadone does.

I am on methadone now and at a moderate-high dose (140 mg). I suffer none of the same cardio toxicity of lope. EKG’s return QTc’s.

I find it troubling that despite this, and all the literature and case studies on lope cardiotoxicity, all of the electrophysiologists I’ve had will not attribute the heart issues either primarily or entirely to lope. They keep telling me it’s likely a genetic predisposition they can’t identify.

 

[Keif' Richards]

American Doctors. All they do is "play doctor". I have had very few experiences with an MD/DO in which, at the end of the consultation, we both look each other in the eye and I know that he knows exactly what he's talking about and is utterly confident in his diagnosis.

Surgeons in Boston or at Stanford maybe. The majority of Doctors have caused me to develop a hatred for Doctors. If they're wrong, it doesn't mean there's a chance in hell they will ever admit it.

 

[Hylight]

Please read our BLUA
Red font is for STAFF only
No bumping threads here anymore

thabnk you. I was looking for help on how to watch a thread and can't seem to right now.
sorry, will focus on sticking to material on topic.

 

[Sertürner]

@Hylight no worries. If you are on mobile then there should be a button that says "watch" at the top of the thread. If I came across as a little callous I apologize, no malice was intended.

 

[Hylight]

? i can't believe you know what i mean. there are so many of them LOL
but, no yes thanks. i was just trying to bookmark LIKE on msn. LOL really.

@Hylight no worries. If you are on mobile then there should be a button that says "watch" at the top of the thread. If I came across as a little callous I apologize, no malice was intended.

have never been sick at all when taking an opiate/oid ever, except when i got nauseous when i took too much one time. but i would never EVER get sick either. even if it did slow my metabolism i did really great. even now,andwhen i start to get real sick, i pop a grand dose of opioid and poof i'm cured. it felt so goood to NEVER BE SICK.

 

[nznity]

"Health Benefits" Are we speaking in generalities here? Opioids make me feel less like the entire malevolent world is out to get me and the only question is whether I will beat the world to it. You can absolutely swear off romance/women what have you if you'd like. It's actually pretty strange when you stop using Opioids and your sex drive is... cranking. I was on a date this past Tuesday and to be blunt, it was pretty much as quick and embarrassing as my very first time. 10 seconds. Maybe.

Opioids do not so much produce health benefits so much as they take the place of many of your basic functions. You feel less hunger, less thirst, less drive for sex. In my opinion the concept of health benefits is more like, you're either on them and living it or you are not an Opioid user. Opioids are not a true substitute for life. For food. For sleep or whatever. It is a complete substitution of a different reality with little ability to take into account the positives and negatives.

well man, moderation is the key. Anything in excess is of course bad, like they say Poison doesn't kill you, what kills you is the dose....

 

[Hylight]

well man, moderation is the key. Anything in excess is of course bad, like they say Poison doesn't kill you, what kills you is the dose....

amazing but true !
it is.

hy.

 

[Echotango]

I think we can ALL AGREE on the FACT that Opioids simply have no long-term Health benefits at least not Physically that is Mentally maybe a bit different. There are probably some things it helps with Physically possibly... like I know Benzodiazepine use without a Tolerance will Increase HGH and Lower Cortisol Levels but Long-Term Users get a Blunted Effect of HGH. I can Cite this Study if I must but just to be sure I don't get bullied in this Thread again I will SIMPLY Google Benzodaizepines and HGH and find a Study that is one of MANY but keep in mind these are OLD Studies so it is not very comprehensive for lack of a better term if you know what I mean. For Example Opioids/Opiates might Lower Cortisol but I Read about how the Histamine Release in a Study which causes the Itching from Opioids/Opiates causes an increase in Cortisol Levels I think or errr Stress Levels I didn't really care to Research it but I would Cite the Study if I did so just Google it or better yet use duckduckgo .

Long-term benzodiazepine administration blunts growth hormone response to diazepam - PubMed

Growth hormone and prolactin responses to diazepam were measured in eight male patients who had been receiving long-term treatment with benzodiazepines and eight age-matched drug-free controls. The growth hormone response was significantly attenuated during benzodiazepine administration, but...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Peripheral benzodiazepine stimulates secretion of growth hormone and mitochondrial proliferation in pituitary tumour GH3 cells - PubMed

High affinity receptors for peripheral benzodiazepines (PBD) are present within the pituitary gland. Whether these receptors influence cell growth, mitochondrial morphology and secretion of growth hormone was examined in pituitary tumour GH3 cells. Cells were incubated in medium with either 10%...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Those are just two Studies I Simply found in literally less than 30 Seconds of a Google Search on the very first Page the first 2 Links I saw I just Copy and Pasted them I did not Read them since I got my own problems which I am a long-time lurker and hence I came here and I am really depressed to find out Me and my Girlfriend probably can't use MDMA safely due to possible Serotonin Syndrome since my Girlfriend is on Methadone and she is weaning down and is at like 85MG since I convinced here to get down from 120MG to 90 and she refused to go down further but we wanted to roll our nuts off during the Summer so bad but everyone is more susceptible to Serotonin than Others. Luckily I VIGOROUSLY Researched every POSSIBLE WAY I could from Anecdotes to B.S. Official Studies and then here Bluelight which seems to have best ones informed so far in my Thread in Pharmacology and Neuroscience Thread. I am on Fentanyl Patch which effects serotonin but I don't know if it is similar to how Methadone effects it and I just learned I can't use Ketamine unless I let these Drugs get out my System and I REALLY want to try it so I gotta wean off Benzos if I can that is.

Here are some Studies Citing Methadone causing Serotonin Syndrome simply just a few Studies I found on Google first page in less than 30 seconds again. I got another Thread if anyone can help me it would be GREATLY appreciated since if MDMA and Methadone can cause Serotonin Syndrome which we know very little about the Symptoms which well slight symptoms would be masked by the MDMA roll would be hard to know if your experiencing unless it gets REALLY BAD but I'm getting off topic sorry I just want to make sure I Cite some Studies so I don't get called a "Fucking Idiot" etc. for saying MDMA and Methadone could cause Serotonin Syndrome. It's got Me extremely upset we really wanted to roll during the Summer so we could go Swimming together in my Pool it would fucking EPIC in my imagination.

A case of serotonin syndrome associated with methadone overdose - PubMed

A chronic pain patient prescribed 20 mg of methadone per day was seen at the Emergency Department within one hour following a witnessed intentional 200 mg ingestion. In addition, he was taking the serotonin re-uptake inhibitor antidepressant drugs, sertraline and venlafaxine as prescribed...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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accpjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com

So for Example Opioids/Opiates might Lower Cortisol but I Read about how the Histamine Release which causes the Itching from Opioids/Opiates causes an increase in Cortisol Levels I think or errr Stress Levels I didn't really care to Research it but I would Cite the Study if I did so just Google it or better yet use duckduckgo .

 

[Sertürner]

I have to disagee with your first sentence Echo. The major health benefit of opioid use are pain free or less painful feeling that allows chronic pain sufferers the ability to function in society instead of not being able to leave bed from how much they hurt. EVERY medication has a benefit, but most of us on here hope to find a certain benefit in their drug of choice that simply isn't there.

 

[nznity]

I have to disagee with your first sentence Echo. The major health benefit of opioid use are pain free or less painful feeling that allows chronic pain sufferers the ability to function in society instead of not being able to leave bed from how much they hurt. EVERY medication has a benefit, but most of us on here hope to find a certain benefit in their drug of choice that simply isn't there.

and the fact that it slows your metabolism so you dont get old as fast as common people.

 

[nznity]

and the fact that it slows your metabolism so you dont get old as fast as common people.

It maintains ur youth ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
Theres tons of. ppl who have surpassed the 100YEARS MARK using opiates errrday. I think poppyseed tea woyld be the best for this purpose or good old Morphine.
I want @Nicomorphinist opinion on this matter. ?

 

[Sertürner]

While I have to agree NZN, it does seem to reduce the appearance of aging, I would love to find some data on it. I will be at work today but if you find any info please share it. It could just be coincidence, correlation doesn't equal causation =/