• Bluelight HOT THREADS
  • Let's Welcome Our NEW MEMBERS!

Has anyone used Kanna to treat depression and/or anxiety?

Mycophile

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
3,606
Hey, I've wanted to try Kanna for a while and see if it helps me with my anxiety and depression but can't because I'm on Lexapro which is an SSRI and Kanna also is and they would interact badly, but supposedly some people have had success using Kanna to treat anxiety and depression and say that it gives a stimulating mood boost and also a bit of a high.

I don't feel like my Lexapro works very well, so I am already thinking of switching to something else (Vortioxetine is one med I've heard good things about) but it only recently occurred to me that if I do get off it and want to switch to something else it doesn't necessarily have to be a prescribed med and that if I am off it long enough for it to be safe to take Kanna then I might as well give that shot.

Has anyone here ever used Kanna to treat their anxiety and/or depression and if so, how did it work?

Also, I have heard some good things about Vortioxetine but don't know much about it, and I'm assuming you can't take that with Kanna, so I mean, just as a completely random question, if any of you guys who know anything about either Kanna and/or Vortioxetine were going to go with one of them as your new antidepressant/anti-anxiety med, which one do you think you would go with and why?

Thanks.
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

Moderator: MH
Staff member
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
7,783
Location
Liminal
I'd discourage kanna largely because you never know what dose you take, based on what respective batch you purchase. I believe it works as an SRI, but a but of searching ought to answer the rest for you.

Vortioxetine I don't know about. If you're a bit savvy as to pharmacodynamics, the wiki page offers their information.

So, what other meds have you tried? There are lots of SSRIs, three SNRIs, and an NDRI for depression. Remeron, too. Tricyclics may be a bit mroe effective, but they're very "dirty" in how many systems they affect, and can be dangerous.

Sometimes lithium can help a lot with treatment-resistance. Or another mood stabilizer like lamictal.

MAOIs can help, too. There are three on the market, based on where you live, but they're not used a lot.
 

Mycophile

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
3,606
I'd discourage kanna largely because you never know what dose you take, based on what respective batch you purchase. I believe it works as an SRI, but a but of searching ought to answer the rest for you.

Vortioxetine I don't know about. If you're a bit savvy as to pharmacodynamics, the wiki page offers their information.

So, what other meds have you tried? There are lots of SSRIs, three SNRIs, and an NDRI for depression. Remeron, too. Tricyclics may be a bit mroe effective, but they're very "dirty" in how many systems they affect, and can be dangerous.

Sometimes lithium can help a lot with treatment-resistance. Or another mood stabilizer like lamictal.

MAOIs can help, too. There are three on the market, based on where you live, but they're not used a lot.
You really would entirely discourage using Kanna just because it would require some playing around with dosages to find your sweet spot because some batches are stronger than others?

No offense but that seems like a pretty reactionary response. I mean all drugs require experimentation to find the right dosage and I'm interested in it from things I've heard.

I haven't tried many drugs but I take Klonopin which is very effective for my anxiety (PLEASE no lectures on how it's addictive and I should stop...I've heard too many of those comments...), used to take Prozac but now take Lexapro which i don't feel works well for my depression, and I use Kratom which i find helps well for both anxiety and depression but because of its' side effects, mainly it just making me feel like giving into any and all other drug cravings i have, I think it's best used less often for me and not depended on regularly, despite my currently being dependent on it.

I don't want to try MAOIs due to all the different dietary and drug interactions and limitations.

My thing is that I am pretty skeptical about most of the pharmaceutical drugs which take weeks to take effect and tend to feel like if I don't feel something both kick in and wear off within a few hours on the same day that I am not quite so sure how likely it is to be effective.

I know that may be an incorrect bias, but I've never used a drug that took weeks to take effect that really dramatically changed my outlook on life and decreased my depression and anxiety. It's always the drugs that can either get you high or buzzed where you just take it and it kicks in within an hour or whatever that seem to, for better or worse, have SOME KIND of dramatic effect on me.

But I'd be interested in trying whatever.

It's just that I've heard that Kanna can give a particular buzz or mood boost, and while I am not specifically interested in it as a recreational drug, it's usually those that can supposedly really give a noticeable boost in a short amount of time that I'm less skeptical about.

I mean, why do you think it would be so bad, given of course the scenario that I was off my Lexapro due to interaction, to experiment with different dosages of Kanna and different brands?

I have talked to a few people who said it worked for them, and I just have my doubts about all the pills pushed by the pharmaceutical companies, though I will try them if I think they'll work.

Thanks.
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

Moderator: MH
Staff member
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
7,783
Location
Liminal
You really would entirely discourage using Kanna just because it would require some playing around with dosages to find your sweet spot because some batches are stronger than others?

No offense but that seems like a pretty reactionary response. I mean all drugs require experimentation to find the right dosage and I'm interested in it from things I've heard.

I haven't tried many drugs but I take Klonopin which is very effective for my anxiety (PLEASE no lectures on how it's addictive and I should stop...I've heard too many of those comments...), used to take Prozac but now take Lexapro which i don't feel works well for my depression, and I use Kratom which i find helps well for both anxiety and depression but because of its' side effects, mainly it just making me feel like giving into any and all other drug cravings i have, I think it's best used less often for me and not depended on regularly, despite my currently being dependent on it.

I don't want to try MAOIs due to all the different dietary and drug interactions and limitations.

My thing is that I am pretty skeptical about most of the pharmaceutical drugs which take weeks to take effect and tend to feel like if I don't feel something both kick in and wear off within a few hours on the same day that I am not quite so sure how likely it is to be effective.

I know that may be an incorrect bias, but I've never used a drug that took weeks to take effect that really dramatically changed my outlook on life and decreased my depression and anxiety. It's always the drugs that can either get you high or buzzed where you just take it and it kicks in within an hour or whatever that seem to, for better or worse, have SOME KIND of dramatic effect on me.

But I'd be interested in trying whatever.

It's just that I've heard that Kanna can give a particular buzz or mood boost, and while I am not specifically interested in it as a recreational drug, it's usually those that can supposedly really give a noticeable boost in a short amount of time that I'm less skeptical about.

I mean, why do you think it would be so bad, given of course the scenario that I was off my Lexapro due to interaction, to experiment with different dosages of Kanna and different brands?

I have talked to a few people who said it worked for them, and I just have my doubts about all the pills pushed by the pharmaceutical companies, though I will try them if I think they'll work.

Thanks.
I think that a constant dose of a daily medicine is usually important. And studies...

I don't see how you find it reactionary. It's not hard logic to follow. The whole point is that you can't keep it at whatever dose is most ideal because of variation within batches and between batches. Nah, I'm not about to tell you not to take a prescribed medication, taken as prescirbed. Maybe the pros outweigh the cons for your kratom usage, it's not for me to say. But my opinion is to stray away from drugs that are unregulated and that you don't know the exact dosage of.

MAOIs are rarely prescribed, but it's true that the dietary effects have been overstated. People have to be very careful finding out what they can tolerate on MAOIs. Some people find they need a precise diet, others find that they hardly have to change it. But the danger can be very real.

I think that the new age of psychiatry will include psychedelics for fast relief of depression. At this future point, they will give a precise dose and have a unique setting to maximize the utility of the trip; but since it's only one dose every while, I can see it working well when taking an approximate dose, too (like 2g good shrooms), but not always. The extreme, reactionary policies of government essentialyl shut down psychedelic research until about ten years ago, which I consider a sin against humanity, as many people could have been saved. But for now it's what it is. The promise is real. Perhaps MDMA for PTSD. Perhaps DMT/psilocybin/LSD for diffficult types of depression and anixety. But I'll always hold meditation over drugs.

Already, to be fair, ketamine is fairly well-integrated into the system, but I do think it should be more used in certain population demographics.

I mean, though, a lot of the time people don't find Western pharma meds to work because they don't give a long enough window for a medication to work and to get used to it. I'm not saying that you fall into this group, but it's very common.

I'd be less skeptical about kanna if it had more studies and if its use was more widespread. Maybe one day it will be. As things are, though, I can't vouch for something like kanna. You do waht you want, and nothing can change that. I''d at least tell your health providers, if not ask them if they would sanction it. Different doctors have different philosophies on the matter. I'm not a doctor, but from my experience, I wouldn't tell someone whom I'm treating that it's a good idea, at least until they try several pharma antidepressants.

Again, not a doctor, but I'd say give two months for each antidepressant, if not three. Six months for each antipsychotic.

In honesty, I was told to maybe try kratom by a doc. Swallowing plant powder three times daily wasn't fun at all. But other than that, I'd either take less or more than I needed, maybe a few times taking a constant dose. It's just easier for the mind and brain to assimilate the substance when it's a constant dosage. I found a pharma to work better overall because of this. So, that's my experience. The idea of a euthymic mood, a happy but not euphoric mood, requires a consistency. Euphoira is about going up then coming down, which is more pronounced taking something of an unknown concentration.

This doesn't apply to GRAS substances, like caffeine. It may be a good thing to look up.

Let's keep thing going until you're satisfied.
 

Mycophile

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
3,606
I think that a constant dose of a daily medicine is usually important. And studies...

I don't see how you find it reactionary. It's not hard logic to follow. The whole point is that you can't keep it at whatever dose is most ideal because of variation within batches and between batches. Nah, I'm not about to tell you not to take a prescribed medication, taken as prescirbed. Maybe the pros outweigh the cons for your kratom usage, it's not for me to say. But my opinion is to stray away from drugs that are unregulated and that you don't know the exact dosage of.

MAOIs are rarely prescribed, but it's true that the dietary effects have been overstated. People have to be very careful finding out what they can tolerate on MAOIs. Some people find they need a precise diet, others find that they hardly have to change it. But the danger can be very real.

I think that the new age of psychiatry will include psychedelics for fast relief of depression. At this future point, they will give a precise dose and have a unique setting to maximize the utility of the trip; but since it's only one dose every while, I can see it working well when taking an approximate dose, too (like 2g good shrooms), but not always. The extreme, reactionary policies of government essentialyl shut down psychedelic research until about ten years ago, which I consider a sin against humanity, as many people could have been saved. But for now it's what it is. The promise is real. Perhaps MDMA for PTSD. Perhaps DMT/psilocybin/LSD for diffficult types of depression and anixety. But I'll always hold meditation over drugs.

Already, to be fair, ketamine is fairly well-integrated into the system, but I do think it should be more used in certain population demographics.

I mean, though, a lot of the time people don't find Western pharma meds to work because they don't give a long enough window for a medication to work and to get used to it. I'm not saying that you fall into this group, but it's very common.

I'd be less skeptical about kanna if it had more studies and if its use was more widespread. Maybe one day it will be. As things are, though, I can't vouch for something like kanna. You do waht you want, and nothing can change that. I''d at least tell your health providers, if not ask them if they would sanction it. Different doctors have different philosophies on the matter. I'm not a doctor, but from my experience, I wouldn't tell someone whom I'm treating that it's a good idea, at least until they try several pharma antidepressants.

Again, not a doctor, but I'd say give two months for each antidepressant, if not three. Six months for each antipsychotic.

In honesty, I was told to maybe try kratom by a doc. Swallowing plant powder three times daily wasn't fun at all. But other than that, I'd either take less or more than I needed, maybe a few times taking a constant dose. It's just easier for the mind and brain to assimilate the substance when it's a constant dosage. I found a pharma to work better overall because of this. So, that's my experience. The idea of a euthymic mood, a happy but not euphoric mood, requires a consistency. Euphoira is about going up then coming down, which is more pronounced taking something of an unknown concentration.

This doesn't apply to GRAS substances, like caffeine. It may be a good thing to look up.

Let's keep thing going until you're satisfied.
Yeah, I understand what you are saying.

Wow, I find that interesting and surprising that a doctor suggested Kratom to you.

I love it, but at the same time I am constantly chasing a high with it.

I am really interested right now in trying Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone because it supposedly can have some antidepressant and endorphin raising properties while greatly reducing both the urge for and side effects and tolerance of opioids, and some people have even taken it with Kratom and found it reduce their tolerance for it but also their desire and eliminated many of the WD effects, and using something called The Sinclair Method some people take Naltrexone in low doses before drinking until they dissassociate the drinking from the cravings and are still able to enjoy drinking to some extent but don't have unbearable cravings for it.

So the idea of having near complete control over my cravings for both Kratom and alcohol with a side of possible antidepressant sounds pretty nice...though part of me would fear that i wouldn't be able to get the ''full experience'' from those drugs anymore, but those who have tried it say that if that happens you can stop and just go back to your old cravings but that usually it isn't working.

I'm rambling now, but this is something I've been wondering about lately and i'm going to ask a psychopharamacologist about it cause my habits are out of control and i also need something to help better with my depression I think.

But I agree that I am BEYOND depressed about not just being able to use psychedelics for depression however and whenever i want lol.

People here seem to be able to find ways but I'm not good with the dark net.

When I someday have the apartment for it and the time and money I would like to grow shrooms and experiment with using them myself as an antidepressant, and i feel like it's EXTREMELY unfair that society won't just let us experiment with our own methods of self healing.

I feel that if we want the help of doctors then they should be ''health advisors'', not telling us what we can and can't put in our bodies, but realizing that we will probably do whatever we want regardless of what they say and that they might as well help us to use those substances in the safest way possible if we are going to do it anyway; just basically the same harm reduction we have here.

Unfortunately, doctors don't feel they can let us have control over our bodies and give us whatever we want and just sign wavers to say that they told us they'd DIDN'T recommend the particular drug they prescribed us, but that they let us have it anyway because our bodies are our own and they didn't feel right about treating us like children and denying us the right to decide what we want to consume.

I'm rambling, but yeah, lets' keep this thread upon please just for some of my crazy ideas about how to deal with my addictions and mental health problems and see what happens lol.
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

Moderator: MH
Staff member
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
7,783
Location
Liminal
Yeah, I understand what you are saying.

Wow, I find that interesting and surprising that a doctor suggested Kratom to you.

I love it, but at the same time I am constantly chasing a high with it.

I am really interested right now in trying Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone because it supposedly can have some antidepressant and endorphin raising properties while greatly reducing both the urge for and side effects and tolerance of opioids, and some people have even taken it with Kratom and found it reduce their tolerance for it but also their desire and eliminated many of the WD effects, and using something called The Sinclair Method some people take Naltrexone in low doses before drinking until they dissassociate the drinking from the cravings and are still able to enjoy drinking to some extent but don't have unbearable cravings for it.

So the idea of having near complete control over my cravings for both Kratom and alcohol with a side of possible antidepressant sounds pretty nice...though part of me would fear that i wouldn't be able to get the ''full experience'' from those drugs anymore, but those who have tried it say that if that happens you can stop and just go back to your old cravings but that usually it isn't working.

I'm rambling now, but this is something I've been wondering about lately and i'm going to ask a psychopharamacologist about it cause my habits are out of control and i also need something to help better with my depression I think.

But I agree that I am BEYOND depressed about not just being able to use psychedelics for depression however and whenever i want lol.

People here seem to be able to find ways but I'm not good with the dark net.

When I someday have the apartment for it and the time and money I would like to grow shrooms and experiment with using them myself as an antidepressant, and i feel like it's EXTREMELY unfair that society won't just let us experiment with our own methods of self healing.

I feel that if we want the help of doctors then they should be ''health advisors'', not telling us what we can and can't put in our bodies, but realizing that we will probably do whatever we want regardless of what they say and that they might as well help us to use those substances in the safest way possible if we are going to do it anyway; just basically the same harm reduction we have here.

Unfortunately, doctors don't feel they can let us have control over our bodies and give us whatever we want and just sign wavers to say that they told us they'd DIDN'T recommend the particular drug they prescribed us, but that they let us have it anyway because our bodies are our own and they didn't feel right about treating us like children and denying us the right to decide what we want to consume.

I'm rambling, but yeah, lets' keep this thread upon please just for some of my crazy ideas about how to deal with my addictions and mental health problems and see what happens lol.
Yeah I'm pretty treatment-resistant. That's kind of what I'm saying with respect to chasing the high. It's kind of what happens whenever the dose isn't constant, at least for most.

I haven't heard of that microdose thing of naltrexone.

Well everyone that works the system how its supposed to, given that they find something to tolerate, will have to build a life on top of medication. The medication comes as part of the package, not it in entirety. It's the differene between euphoria and euthymia. And it is hard work, at least at first.

I say bah to the dark net. It's chaotic, and all about sensation and profit. If you can, go the clean route my friend! That is, unless you're investing in bitcoin or another cryptocurrency.

If it helps, within the next several years they should have some sort of protocol involving treatment with psychedelics. It's totally unfair. It's a political, bureaucratic game that harms innocent people.

Most doctors accept that patients will use drugs if they want to. It's not like a few decades ago wherein they would always assert not to use and the apparent horrific effects of all non-legal, non-pharma drugs. But the way it works, one is stabilized on medication for a while before a doctor would willingly say its harmless to use anything.

It's not to the point yet, but things are being relaxed, and the system is on-track to accept that mind-alteration is part of the human psyche.

One thing at a time. Changes overnight with respect to serious vices is a rare thing. Just start with one decrease or one minor negative habit to drop. Addiction is a mental illness. And like the others, it takes time to master. I think it's good to discuss its reality, though, because a lot of people just deny that they have a problem until something very serious and irreversible happens.
 
Top