Stimulants Guide for Best Dextroamphetamine and Vyvanse Use

[axhilles]

Hi All,

This is a guide (but more of a slight ramble on the topic) for Best Dextroamphetamine and Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine) Use.

What is the difference?
- both essentially deliver the same drug but in diffrent ways
- Vyvanse lasts longer and is dextroamphetamine attached to L-lysine, the drug metabolizes to Dextroamphetamine in about 1-1.5
- They do have diffrent effects, so read on.

Initial Use (Just Prescribed):

Vyvanse:

- how long it lasts? when it kicks in? when to take it? how it makes you feel?
in the morning
1-1.5hrs till it kicks in
10-12hrs total time stimulated
6 hours of best stimulation = very well focused and awake
1st - 2nd hour = euphoric feeling + insane amounts of energy + motivational kick + very social;
if you took the medication and went back to sleep, when it kicks it will literally wake you the u up and make you get out of bed
after 1st-2nd hour = you will get intense focus, wanting to plan your life, and check everything off your list
after 6th hour = you become a zombie + anti-social + start to feel tired + focus will slowly continue to drain
after meds wear off = really tired + anti-social + pretty much wont be able to get anything done
most likely will go to bed

- caution + safety + dosage + things you should know?
most likely start at a too low dose, you will incrementally go up
once you find lowest dosage effective, DO NOT GO UP
DO NOT TAKE 2 pills at a time
take in the morning only, not mid-day because - no sleep for you
get at least 8 hours of NREM-REM sleep (NREM-REM sleep cycle = good sleep is when you go thru this cycle which is about 4 hours each, so 2 cycles a night)
DO NOT TAKE drugs that will force you to sleep because they will not induce the NREM-REM sleep and you will still feel tired/fatigued the next day
Melatonine (not preferred, because it may make you groggy the next day and you may have trouble waking up) is ok to take to help fall asleep, will actually (debatable) help keep tolerance normal
To help you sleep (preferred) and also reduce anxiety during the day:
- Kava Kava
- Passion flover
- Gotu Kola
- GABA
- Hops
- Valerine root
- Chamomile
- Lemon Balm
- L-theanine
If you get anxiety during the day L-theanine, Lemon Balm, and Chamomile extract does wonders.
TAKE THIS drug only when absolutely needed, aka you actually plan on doing work on it
Dont take it every day, and more than twice a day, cz it will become less effective
EAT FOOD
TAKE MULTI-VITAMINS (Opti-Men or Opti-Women is best in SWIM's opinion)
exercise 4-6 times a week

Dextoamphetamine (favorite for many prescribed users):

- how long it lasts? when it kicks in? when to take it? how it makes you feel?
when you need, but not at night
30min or less till it kicks in
5-7hrs total time stimulated
4-6hrs hours of best stimulation = very well focused and awake
1st hour = motivational kick + very social + focus (but not as hyperfocused as vyvanse);
2nd-6th hour = best focus + you will get shit done + normal-worse social

- caution + safety + dosage + things you should know?
comes in 5mg and 10 mg
dont take more than one at a time, 1.25 max
take whenever, but tey not to take it less than 8hrs before bed, cz it will impact sleep
get at least 8 hours of NREM-REM sleep (NREM-REM sleep cycle = good sleep is when you go thru this cycle which is about 4 hours each, so 2 cycles a night)
DO NOT TAKE drugs that will force you to sleep because they will not induce the NREM-REM sleep and you will still feel tired/fatigued the next day
Melatonine (not preferred, because it may make you groggy the next day and you may have trouble waking up) is ok to take to help fall asleep, will actually (debatable) help keep tolerance normal
To help you sleep (preferred) and also reduce anxiety during the day:
- Kava Kava
- Passion flover
- Gotu Kola
- GABA
- Hops
- Valerine root
- Chamomile
- Lemon Balm
- L-theanine
If you get anxiety during the day L-theanine, Lemon Balm, and Chamomile extract does wonders.
TAKE THIS drug only when absolutely needed, aka you actually plan on doing work on it
Dont take it every day, and more than twice a day, cz it will become less effective
EAT FOOD
TAKE MULTI-VITAMINS (Opti-Men or Opti-Women is best in SWIM's opinion)
exercise 4-6 times a week

If you have been taking these meds for a while, and not following the rules above:
- tolerance will go up
- you will prob not sleep much, thus making you tired/fatigued during day (making meds less effective) and tolerance will go up
- you will prob notice you arent as social as you used to be

If tired and high tolerance and you need get work done:
- take DXM (found in musinexDM pills, also not very safe to take these regularly), magnesium, zink, iron, and/or mix water with baking soda (this will make meds more effective)
- a lot of coffee (like a lot) + nicotine gum 4mg (this is safe, nicotine is safe but not when you get it thru smoking tobacco)(nicotine is a carcinogen, and quite addictive) INSTEAD: L-theanine, some chamomile, and lemon balm works much better, specifically L-theanine and alert.
Why? Because a lot of coffee will wake you the fuck up, this will make your heart beat fast and jittery.
To counter act this jittery effect and uneasy effect + make you more focused + able to talk and carry convo with people, take the nicotine gum 4mg
and follow box instructions
EAT FOOD
TAKE MULTI-VITAMINS (a good option: Opti-Men or Opti-Women)

If you want to fix your tolerance and go back to social self and make meds work how they used to:
- Have real deep sleep 8 hours REM cycle
- take a vacation from taking meds, use caffeine and nicotine gum instead for focus if truly needed
- take DXM (found in musinexDM pills), magnesium, zink, and iron every day while on vacation
- EAT FOOD
- TAKE MULTI-VITAMINS (a good option: Opti-Men or Opti-Women)
- exercise 4-6 times a week (check out a Bodybuilding.com plan if you dont know what to do at the gym)

MORAL OF THE STORY DON'T ABUSE IT, USE IT FOR WORK and CONCENTRATION, and have a HEALTHY LIFE STYLE + EAT FOOD

IF THE ABOVE MEDS ARE TO HYPERFOCUSED FOR YOU, and not enough energy and motivation for you = try Adderall
IF Adderall makes you too jittery, nicotine gum 4mg (nicotine is a carcinogen, and quite addictive) L-theanine and other herbs mentioned earlier work better and will fix that.

DONT abuse the nicotine gum 4mg if you do choose to use it, use as directed on the box.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Welcome to Bluelight
We don't use SWIM, so please edit your post and read the rules !

 

[speedballs_over]

I had too log in just too point out that Vyvanse is d-amp, with a lysine group attached to the side chain. This is cleaved by ... it's been highly debated - in any case that 1- 2 hour delay b/f Vyvanse begins too exert an effect is the time elapsed until your (not SWIMS - he's in the pool) body has cleaved enough lysine from the d-amp molecule that is marketed as Vyvanse (lisdexagetamin? More directly: N-lis(+d)amphetsmin (i think... Could be off slightly) to produce the exact same drug, at varying, inconsistent and differential in the duration of effects - dextroamphetamine: d-amp, prescription speed, yvanse, Dexidrine, etc....

Otherwise, very decent HR post, not that I'm to judge, welcome to you!

 

[axhilles]

The post was edited to comply to the rules, and to give more information about the medications.

Thank you for the welcome! Hope this helps anyone that stumbles on it.

Although people may call dextroamphetamine = prescription speed, there are subtle differences.
Speed = pure amphetamine = 50% dextroamphetamine and 50% levoamphetamine (optical isomer of amphetamine that are not identical, and thus have different effects)
Meth = methamphetamine (very neurotoxic)
(crystal meth = version of meth in crystal form. prescription meth = medication called desoxyn, nazi germany used pervitin, both are in tablet form)
Adderall = a mix of 4 amphetamine derived salts and chemicals that equal to 75% dextroamphetamine and 25% levoamphetamine
Vyvanse = lisdexamfetamine, or l-lysine-dextroamphetamine

There are drugs that are derived from amphetamine (hence are a diffrent drug), such as Ecstasy/MDMA, Molly (usually mixed MDMA), and MDA.

 

[xbandit07x]

A lot of the stuff you posted is Spot on. I think vyvanse is really annoying because for such a long release, it only has Positive effects on ADD/ADHD for 6 hours and then it would be better off Evaporating.

But also, D amp from vyvanse feels different than an IR tablet because vyvanse simulates 4 hours of a "rising peak", this makes it very euphoric, but it Never plateaus.

As in if 70 vyvanse = 22.5 d amp, it would be as if you swallowed
1 mg of Dexedrine every 10 minutes or some interval based on your livers rate. The result is a constant Change on the rise which studies have shown Positive effects on ADHD come from feeling it increase, morseo than the amount operating at one time.

DEX IR only rises within an hourish then its a plateu for about 1-2 hours.

 

[Ksa]

You forgot the effect that makes you feel you can teach without certain knowledge, be sure of the uncertain and joining a community of experts thinking you are the Messiah shining light over it.

I do not approve of this guide, I think it is naive, inaccurate and although nobody will die following it, it is useless. We've had a few greenlighters who posted shit so amazing that we all felt they should have been part of this community for a decade. This is obviously not the case.

A lot of the stuff you posted is Spot on.

His guide has solid parts that show he has both knowledge and experience using the drug, like for example him encouraging the use of nicotine. However the guide lacks structure, and when I read stuff like "don't take 2 pills at a time" or "not at night" or "good sleep is when you go thru this cycle which is about 4 hours each, so 2 cycles a night", his credibility meter drops to zero.

 

[Treefa]

Ok sorry but this sucks....it may be good for the OP, or random other people weighing in under 109 lbs.

You say, and I quote- " when to take it? When you need, but not at night" LOL I often NEED amphetamines at night to overcome the draining fatigue from a LONG DAY. So I can actually ENJOY my night and be productive UNTIL bed time( 5 am...yeah), instead of vegging out in front of the T.V.

Onto the next bit of sin;
"comes in 5mg and 10 mg
dont take more than one at a time, 1.25 max
take whenever, but tey not to take it less than 8hrs before bed, cz it will impact sleep"
Ok my next issue....no more than 12.5 mg of Dexedrine in a single dose!!? Who are you writing this for pre-schoolers? Anorexics? People with compromised CV function?
Sheesh 12.5mg of Dex is such a low dose that I could literally sleep SOUNDLY about 3-4 hours after taking it, if not immediately.

Nicotine is carcinogenic, No matter what the source.
My late Uncle smoked for 40 years.....eventually quit and changed to gum. So in the end he had not only lung cancer, but also brain cancer!

Welp....I guess if nothing else, Hillary was spot-on about this "fake news" lol.....

Seriously OP, amphetamines have been around for going on a century now, and I could've SWORE there was already a comprehensive guide far superior to this on BL..maybe not.

P.S. you didn't even mention baking soda? Good combinations? SAFE combinations Vs. Unsafe? Barely a guide, sure as hell not a comprehensive one!

 

[Ksa]

^ With the nicotine, keep in mind that your uncle was not on daily amphetamines for 40 years. Amphetamines deplete proteins, fat and sugar, so cancerous cells aren't exactly in a growth promoting environment and are in a harsh competition with real cells. We don't have studies for smokers on amphetamines, for all we know, people smoke to relieve daily stress because they have no dextroamphetamine.

And you're right, there's nothing better than 1mg of dextroamphetamine at 1am to have a good night's sleep and refreshing deep sleep/REM, and I can't also dictate that you should not take 40mg IR at 11pm if you plan to masturbate to porn until 11am the next day. Aside for making your wife jealous and you being out of it the next day, not much harm will ensue. It really depends what you want to do.

 

[RDP89]

Nicotine is carcinogenic, No matter what the source.
My late Uncle smoked for 40 years.....eventually quit and changed to gum. So in the end he had not only lung cancer, but also brain cancer!
!

It has never been established that nicotine is carcinogenic.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

It has never been established that nicotine is carcinogenic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/

Nicotine has also been found to be carcinogenic in several studies. It promotes tumorigenesis by affecting cell proliferation, angiogenesis and apoptotic pathways. It causes resistance to the chemotherapeutic agents.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4553893/

Evidence from experimental in vitro studies on cell cultures, in vivo studies on rodents as well as studies on humans inclusive of epidemiological studies indicate that nicotine may contribute in cancer development by stimulating a number of important processes.
...
Nicotine has been shown to induce CA, SCE, single-strand DNA strand breaks, and MN in vitro.
At present, it is not possible to draw a conclusion whether nicotine itself may act as a complete carcinogen.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24827506

The list of cancers reportedly connected to nicotine is expanding and presently includes small-cell and non-small-cell lung carcinomas, as well as head and neck, gastric, pancreatic, gallbladder, liver, colon, breast, cervical, urinary bladder and kidney cancers. The mutagenic and tumour-promoting activities of nicotine may result from its ability to damage the genome, disrupt cellular metabolic processes, and facilitate growth and spreading of transformed cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23599683

Nicotine and its metabolites can promote tumor growth through increased proliferation, angiogenesis, migration, invasion, epithelial to mesenchymal transition, and stimulation of autocrine loops associated with tumor growth.

Decide for yourself

 

[Erikmen]

It has never been established that nicotine is carcinogenic.

I'm pretty sure it was. Only that powder added to cigarettes so that it's lighted and keep it burning is one of them.
There are hundred of others, but that was just one 'tiny' thing that is in the paper. When people inhale nicotine, the smoke has been proved to cause cancer. Not only in the lung cancer but it also attacks one's bladder with time.

 

[Ksa]

It has never been established that nicotine is carcinogenic.

It was, studies above, and I myself experienced instabilities at the cellular level because of it like mouth sores so I cannot say it's not carcinogenic. What I can say however is that the carcinogenic effect is highly dependent on the nicotine concentration within a tissue. If it's diluted across the body I don't think it can cause issues, I think most issues come from the mode of administration where, whether in the mouth or in the lungs, nicotine has to concentrate itself somewhere at first in order to enter the body and be diluted. That's an issue with nicotine, it's very hard to administer without burning the tissue used.

Chemical burn is the right expression, it causes a chemical burn to the tissue, the tissue can turn white and die so it is common to observe white spots in the mouth. Very rarely these mouth sores and white spots can be cancer.

 

[xbandit07x]

Of course the OP is just a ramble thread on D amp, but I think his observations are very likely shared by many users.

From a harm
Reduction standpoint, the only thing red flagged here is his suggestion to use DXM with amphetamine. That isn't safe.

I've once before knowing anything, did something very very dangerous, a robotrip(450 mg DXM) in the midst of an Adderall taking day. That Could kill a man who's blood pressure is slightly higher than mine.

 

[axhilles]

This is definitely not aimed to be a "comprehensive" guide, but a collection of observations thru trial and error.

Sleep is crucial for brain and body function and performance, pumping yourself full of amphetamines to stay up on a regular basis to 5am is not healthy and decreases performance the next day. Not only are you depleting you dopamine levels but you also are decreasing the effectiveness of the medication.

This guide was meant to promote usage of prescribed medication as directed. Not promote recreational use. Constantly upping your dosage to get desired effects isnt safe.

When DXM was mentioned, what was meant by that is 30mg-60mg not a robotrip, and not during amphetamine use but at night before bed. There are detrimental health effects, but it does work to reduce tolerance.

Nicotine is a carcinogen, I am glad you have pointed this out. Amphetamines are neurotoxic. REM cycle sleep is important for your health, and the explanation was botched in the initial post ("The first REM sleep period usually occurs about 70 to 90 minutes after we fall asleep. A complete sleep cycle takes 90 to 110 minutes on average. The first sleep cycles each night contain relatively short REM periods and long periods of deep sleep. As the night progresses, REM sleep periods increase in length while deep sleep decreases. By morning, people spend nearly all their sleep time in stages 1, 2, and REM.").

"Sleep appears necessary for our nervous systems to work properly. Too little sleep leaves us drowsy and unable to concentrate the next day. It also leads to impaired memory and physical performance and reduced ability to carry out math calculations. If sleep deprivation continues, hallucinations and mood swings may develop. Some experts believe sleep gives neurons used while we are awake a chance to shut down and repair themselves. Without sleep, neurons may become so depleted in energy or so polluted with byproducts of normal cellular activities that they begin to malfunction. Sleep also may give the brain a chance to exercise important neuronal connections that might otherwise deteriorate from lack of activity.

Deep sleep coincides with the release of growth hormone in children and young adults. Many of the body's cells also show increased production and reduced breakdown of proteins during deep sleep. Since proteins are the building blocks needed for cell growth and for repair of damage from factors like stress and ultraviolet rays, deep sleep may truly be "beauty sleep." Activity in parts of the brain that control emotions, decision-making processes, and social interactions is drastically reduced during deep sleep, suggesting that this type of sleep may help people maintain optimal emotional and social functioning while they are awake. A study in rats also showed that certain nerve-signaling patterns which the rats generated during the day were repeated during deep sleep. This pattern repetition may help encode memories and improve learning."
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain_basics/understanding_sleep.htm

Because amphetamines are a CNS stimulant, it is damn important to sleep when taking the medication to increase its long-term effectiveness and decrease its negative effects on your body and brain.

 

[Ksa]

^ So if a Bluelight user took 40mg of Dexedrine at 6pm and another 20mg at 11pm, masturbated to porn until 5am, tried to sleep at 5am but gave up attempts at 5:45am, at 6am he masturbated again until 6:30am, now he's light headed, feels weak when standing up, his face is yellow, he has trouble talking due to elevated heart rate/low blood pressure, has the onset of a headache and work begins at 9am.

What does your guide suggest he does aside from calling in sick, in order to get to work and appear normal?

 

[axhilles]

Although I am not a medical doctor, I would suggest going back in time and not taking that 20mg.

 

[Ksa]

Although I am not a medical doctor, I would suggest going back in time and not taking that 20mg.

On this site you deal with people who, after taking the 40, no longer have the choice of not taking the 20, and if they had such a time travel tool, they would do it all over again. And if everyone here was using it as prescribed, they wouldn't need a guide on how to follow their doctor's directions, they just have to do what their doctors tell them. You see, on this site, our expertise is putting out the fire so it doesn't turn into a blaze. We don't deal with "normal".

The answer to my question is counter intuitive. What I would do first is stop by the fridge, break 4 raw eggs into a glass, drink them, take a shower, add extra de-odorant, redose 20mg Dexedrine with a cup of coffee, take another 20mg in my pocket at work and tell my co-workers I jogged to work for the first time and I feel amazing, if they engage me in conversation. The worst mistake amateurs can do is attempt to go to work without re-dosing Dexedrine.

You're right when you say that, unless you use it as prescribed, you won't give your best. It's just that most people here think that their best feels amazing, so they chose to experience it rather than to give it. You can give your best at work or at school, and then be left with something which is less than your best to experience for yourself, if that floats your boat. At the end of the day, it's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of choice. I personally chose to experience my best for over 10 years, and now, I'm giving something which is less than my best at work. If I had given my best, sure, I could have more money now, and less of an ability to joy from that money.

"Your best" is your ability to experience joy from things. I don't have anything against hard work or striving to be better...but look! Look at what they make you give! Isn't it a shame? What if death is there to stay? And you could taste what "your best" tastes like, pure honey on the tip of your finger and then it's gone...but...out of your reach, in the middle of a lake there is a 5 ton barrel filled with honey, and Dexedrine is building a bridge to that honey barrel that stands firm for 4 hours, should one use such a bridge to reach the honey barrel and use it, or invest/sell the barrel to reach career excellence? So what's better? What's the right way? Do you know?

I don't even think GOD is qualified to answer that question, I'm also a great victim of knowing too much for one's good

 

[Fev123]

A lot of the stuff you posted is Spot on. I think vyvanse is really annoying because for such a long release, it only has Positive effects on ADD/ADHD for 6 hours and then it would be better off Evaporating.

Yeah it helps get me going for about 4-5 hours then it makes me a zombie. I would rather be extreme ADHD than have to deal with the effects of vyvanse... anyone have any solutions for the comedown?

 

[Fev123]

The result is a constant Change on the rise which studies have shown Positive effects on ADHD come from feeling it increase, morseo than the amount operating at one time.

It only works on me during the come-up, so about 3 hours. Anything that can help this?

 

[Fev123]

You forgot the effect that makes you feel you can teach without certain knowledge, be sure of the uncertain and joining a community of experts thinking you are the Messiah shining light over it.

I do not approve of this guide, I think it is naive, inaccurate and although nobody will die following it, it is useless. We've had a few greenlighters who posted shit so amazing that we all felt they should have been part of this community for a decade. This is obviously not the case.



His guide has solid parts that show he has both knowledge and experience using the drug, like for example him encouraging the use of nicotine. However the guide lacks structure, and when I read stuff like "don't take 2 pills at a time" or "not at night" or "good sleep is when you go thru this cycle which is about 4 hours each, so 2 cycles a night", his credibility meter drops to zero.

Why does his credibility drop? He is not wrong. He is trying to give a good guide to keep your tolerance low and be able to live a healthy lifestyle while taking your prescription. Average person's REM cycle is 3-4 hours long, and you shouldn't take 2 at a time, but you can. Giving this post a lookover like an english teacher is silly and claiming his credibility drops when he says something that is correct, but you disagree with, loses all your credibility.