Guards tear down Aboriginal protesters' shelter

[Beatlebot]

Um, I thought Shnouzer's quote from Buffy was actually pretty good and was a great representation of what some people think. It's better than another boring post which says exactly the same thing.

Um, yes, I suppose that some people do think that it's kill or be killed with Aborigines. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who think we should just continue to wipe them out and that will solve the problem. I suppose it would be a solution wouldn't it? I was simply pointing that this was a rather souless and kind of Neo-Nazi way of looking at things.

I was having alot of fun doing it and I thought I was making a point as well. But, um, I guess some people just don't appreciate me denigrating the sacred texts of Buffy, The Vampire Slayer, even if I do understand them better than the person who quoted them.

Werewolves indeed.

Irony, the concept flew right over your heads.

 

[Samadhi]

Although I probably shouldn't have even mentioned ATSIC because my knowledge on the whole situation is superficial at best.

I completely agree with your statement about ATSIC. My husbands best friend's family was heavily involved in ATSIC, his grandmother was one of the founding members, and alot of his family worked for the organisation. A few years ago it all went to shit. By the end of it, ATSIC stood for nothing but corruption, with key members living in plush houses, driving late model 4x4's and laundering money.

I remember my husband's friend telling us how fucked up it was and how the whole situation made his grandmother sick (literally).

 

[Mary Poppins]

This issue is always going to go round in circles.

The thing is, I can honestly see both sides of the argument, but in the end, I believe Australia should have apologized to the Aboriginals.

I say 'should have' because I personally believe that any apology now will be so loaded it isn't funny, and will look token and obligatory due to all the controversy surrounding it.

If Australia had done the right thing and apologized when all the issues about land rights and the stolen generation came to a head and swept the media, we would have come off looking a lot better, and would be a lot further on the road to reconciliation.

Keej, Schnouzer and anyone else against our government apologizing to the Aboriginals, these are my reasons why I think this.

1. Your defence that the past government's actions were simply those of a country trying to regain land etc in the normal course of action taken by a conquering civilisation doesn't wash well. I know these things were hardly regulated but IMO the settlers went "above and beyond" so to speak with the entire process. Whether this was common practice or otherwise, I think it is important to acknowledge that taking children off mothers, gratuitously harming a race after you have already succeeded in taking their land, is an atrocity.

2. I think a lot of the differing viewpoints in this argument originate because of the variety of interpretations of the word 'sorry'. I can completely understand not wanting to be held responsible for the actions of people long past, not wanting to apologize on their behalf - but I just think that sometimes, you just have to suck it in and do it.

Sorry is the hardest word to say etc etc...all those cliches are there for a reason - noone likes admitting they were wrong. To me though, sorry is far from an admission of guilt, it's the first step towards reconciliation.

Ever been in a fight with a friend and for ages you remain stubborn, not apologizing because you don't want to admit you did anything wrong? As time passes, the value of not having your friend anymore becomes greater than losing some face, and you extend an apology - starting the road to forgiveness and reconciliation.

This is what I believe the apology to the Aboriginal community needs to be viewed as - a step into unifying the races that inhabit our nation. It shouldn't be viewed as a method of blame, for the very reasons that as people have pointed out, it's not something that our generation took part in or even would condone. It's a symbolic gesture (as UAN said) from our race to theirs.

I just feel if it were to come now, it will have lost a lot of its value as it will just seem like we were pressured into doing it.

Also I feel if this apology was extended more voluntarily some time ago, the entire land rights process would have been a lot less difficult, and the Aboriginals may have been more cooperative (before I get screamed at, I'm thinking of cases I've heard where there has been developments that have got past all levels of approval then at the last minute, construction has been abandoned because of a new claim that it is a spiritual ground --- that is unacceptable behaviour IMO).

I think it's amazing what a little compassion and ability to accept responsibility for "our" actions (ie. the actions of those before us) can achieve. But now we will never really know.

 

[up all night]

Oh get over yourself beatlebot. I wasn't just referring to you - there were quite a few people who had a dig at shnouzerpuff about his use of a buffy quote. I was just saying that other people said similar things later in the thread and at least his way of representing it was slightly more interesting. The fact your knowledge of Buffy is obviously unparralleled didn't factor into my comment.

 

[Beatlebot]

Next I want to talk about Australia's international relationships by comparing them to plotlines from The Bold and the Beautiful.

:D

 

[zephyr]

Next I want to talk about Australia's international relationships by comparing them to plotlines from The Bold and the Beautiful.

:D

I see how that could work.

Ridge= Australia
Brooke= USA
Taylor= England.
Nick= Iraq

Aussie should have stayed loyal to England after WW2 but got sucked in by that slut Brooke , whos trying to get into Nick's oily pants.

Nice one BB

 

[zephyr]

Such as the amount it took to put on the commonwealth games? Priorities, sweet priorities.

Johnny Howards priority is to keep his political party in power. Thats the bottom line. Whatever it takes to keep the Libs in, thats what will happen. Im not saying its right, I havent and wont say my stance on the Aboriginal situation in this forum, but thats the reality of the situation here.

 

[Beatlebot]

^ Yeah I know, but my point was valid. If you weren't so wrapped in yourself you could read the thread and see that.



EDIT: Because I was replying to what other people had said.

 

[sonicnature]

Come on kids! I would have thought moderators had enough constraint to take their persoanl problems and issues to PM

 

[Beatlebot]

Your point that.. wait.. what was it? I think you were rambling on about whether Buffy did indeed slay both vampires *AND* werewolves, despite the title of her show being Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Excuse me for moving on from your point to the part where you randomly start talking about neo-nazis for no apparent reason. I only do it because I'm self-absorbed.

I'm flattered that you are reading my posts But you need to read other people's posts for context. I am not just talking to myself.

 

[Mary Poppins]

seriously...BB, keej, zephyr and whoever else is posting off-topic crap.

Regardless of the validity of any of your original arguments/the way you presented them, all you are doing at the moment is being petty and arguing over minute points that have little to do with the overall issue of this thread.

Take it to PM please.

 

[Bent Mk2]

Speeking of off-topic, most of the conversation has been - this thread's supposed to be about the protesters in the park, not whether not not we should say sorry!

 

[Mary Poppins]

^ cheers, but please leave the moderating to us.

Off-topic content is allowed when it is interesting, a debate in its own right (that can involve more than 2 people) and somewhat relevant to the original topic.

Arguments over who has the most buffy knowledge hardly fall within that criteria

 

[zephyr]

seriously...BB, keej, zephyr and whoever else is posting off-topic crap.

Regardless of the validity of any of your original arguments/the way you presented them, all you are doing at the moment is being petty and arguing over minute points that have little to do with the overall issue of this thread.

Take it to PM please.

Thanks a lot MP. I actually thought there was a little more to the whole topic than putting a damn fire out. But Ill take my thoughts elsewhere and leave you arrogant elitists to it.

EDIT: Ill add here to keep from going off topic MP- but one post which was a reply to BBs and you point me out? Whatever- Im sure you wouldnt like it if I pointed out your last few posts in here as CRAP either. No pm necessary to sort this stupid argument out. Im done here.

BTW- lok1, I like cake too!

 

[Mary Poppins]

I apologize if I didn't make this clear enough in the post that you quoted, but everyones contributions to the topic are appreciated and valued - when you post deliberately off-topic stuff:

I see how that could work.

Ridge= Australia
Brooke= USA
Taylor= England.
Nick= Iraq

Aussie should have stayed loyal to England after WW2 but got sucked in by that slut Brooke , whos trying to get into Nick's oily pants.

Nice one BB

like that - which IMO are merely contributions to what had by that stage become little more than a petty personal argument, then I fail to see why I should consider that as on topic?

There's no need to get so defensive, I wasn't attacking all of your posts, I just wanted the off-topic shit to stay out of this thread and yours, BB and keej were the last few off-topic posts I saw.

If you have any further problems with this feel free to pm me .

 

[Beatlebot]

Can we start a thread about The Bold and the Beautiful and international relations, or would you close it?

 

[chugs]

If my family had been murdered, my society systematically destroyed, my children stolen, my values, voice and humanity ignored. The environment I live in mined and destroyed I wouldn't care if it was 1 or even 200 years but I would never stop demanding justices. Take my family, we’re still getting over the suicide of a great-great-great-great grandfather that happened 150 years ago (he stole the family fortune). Repercussions of his actions resulted in the subsequent suicide of his son, and his son son. (the guilt just kept compounding over and over, till we didn’t even know what we were meant to feel guilty about)

Imagine how long it would take for you to get over the complete annihilation of your society. Be a pretty upsetting event. It has repercussions that will last thousands of years, not to mention it gotta be a bit of a downer at family dinners.

You gotta love our response to it all though. Throw a few billion a year at them. Most of the money just gets paid to white business and eaten up in transportation costs but hey looks great on paper doesn’t it. Sates your guilt doesn’t it? Doesn’t mean much because hey we still glorify the criminals who allowed us to exist in the first place, those great Australia hero’s who slaved and destroyed aboriginal society. Australia Day, better known by those who aren’t deluded, as “Invader Day” (and all those other public holidays that glorify this evil country), is another kick in the balls to the mountains of human beings that had to die in order to allow us to exist right now.

I love it when after 200 hundred years of institutionalizing, murdering, stealing from these people that when we see one in the gutter, we laugh, when we see one ranting and raving about it all we laugh, hell we sometimes even get worried and call the cops on them. “Dirty drunk aboriginal, what would he know about the world. Doesn’t he realize that we’re not to blame for his situation? Its not out fault our ancestors brutally destroy his society. We’re fair now, we give you billions and you just spit in our face with your drunkenness, your rampant criminality”

Of course it takes the average aboriginal all of about 25 years before they realizing the futility of it all and just hang themselves next time they go to jail, or drink themselves to death.

So do the right thing and empathies, put yourself in their boots and consider long and hard the pain and agony they've gone through. We have a blood debt that has to be paid which when we deny the crimes of our ancestors, who were never called to answer, is just perpetuating very evil that we would abhor if it happened right now.

 

[Samadhi]

I apologize if I didn't make this clear enough in the post that you quoted, but everyones contributions to the topic are appreciated and valued - when you post deliberately off-topic stuff:



like that - which IMO are merely contributions to what had by that stage become little more than a petty personal argument, then I fail to see why I should consider that as on topic?

There's no need to get so defensive, I wasn't attacking all of your posts, I just wanted the off-topic shit to stay out of this thread and yours, BB and keej were the last few off-topic posts I saw.

If you have any further problems with this feel free to pm me .

I agree with MP that zephyr's comment was off-topic... but it was pretty damned funny. I laughed out loud.