Give up your pill

peaked

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I cant say I really agree with what your saying che_melbourne. Shit pills already get pressed alike, though in most cases there are subtle differences between them which can be used to identify the different batches. In terms of creating two 100% identical looking batches, Im not too sure this would be very likely. The only people who could really do this would be the people who made it, and surely they would care about the reputation of their product over getting a few quick dollars. Other people can and do try to replicate good batches, but to get it perfect they would need exactly the same (atleast dimension wise) press, as well as a product to be pressed that was exactly the same colour. To get the same colour, they would probably need to use very similar ratio's of ingredients as the original producers did, and presumably they wouldn't know this information (and hence there would be a variation between the batches).

Sure, dealers could use it, but IMO a big time dealer would be well aware of exactly what the pills contain when they purchased them. If not from simply having a strong relationship with their source, I would hazard a guess that if someone was purchasing thousands of pills, they would atleast use reagents to be sure they were getting the real deal. Infact, unless the dealer was getting very strong pills, I cant imagine them wanting to submit only "average" strength pills so that everyone can be aware they are only average. IMO it would mainly be the end users who submit them, and those that do would probably be the more harm minimisation orientated people, whom care about getting clean MDMA and being able to dose themselves accordingly. I know I certainly would be willing to pay $50 or so (ontop of the cost of the pill) just to be entirely sure what it contains.
 

Special-T.B.K

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I can see ppl doing it- but in the USA Im gathering pills are a hell of alot cheaper. Much like the UK!

No- They would only need residue in the bag'

the machines they use are pretty darn good. Anyway wot stops The Fuzz tracing the mail???

SpecTBK=D
 

phase_dancer

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No- They would only need residue in the bag'
Not necessarily. If there was a previously unseen drug present, perhaps a new and exotic tryptamine, or if the drug was extremely potent and unstable (like iso LSD), it may be that just crumbs or dust proves to be insufficient to state with any surity that a particular drug is present. Read my post on GC further up the page. Even the result of an ion scanner has to be confirmed by GC/MS if it's to be presented in court. Legally speaking, at present GC/MS has the final word.

the machines they use are pretty darn good. Anyway wot stops The Fuzz tracing the mail???
Well, if they can't find people who send fake powders in the mail as scare tactics, I doubt very much they will trace a letter with a pill in it. Unless of course you put a sender address on the back ;)
 

Cyberdyne

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Special-T.B.K said:
I can see ppl doing it- but in the USA Im gathering pills are a hell of alot cheaper. Much like the UK!

No- They would only need residue in the bag'

the machines they use are pretty darn good. Anyway wot stops The Fuzz tracing the mail???

SpecTBK=D
While almost all substances can be identified with residue there are several other factors to consider -

First, the quantity of a given drug in the pill - a pill which has tested for ketamine does not ring out as particularly dangerous. A pill that has tested for 250 mg of ketamine is potentially extremely dangerous

Second, pills, particularly compound represses are perfectly capable of containing uneven distribution of substances - even tiny quantity's of a totally unresearched substance (or perhaps one known to cause adverse reactions) may not be desirable for every user.

Finally, (and this really is irrefutable) if pills are being sent for a detailed analysis from a laboratory, then surely the most important control variable in the entire procedure is ensuring that the pill is in fact the pill believed to be the subject of the test. I mean, realisitically, are they going to ask user's to send in a description of the pill with the sample? Can you imagine the incredible unreliability of the system, and the blatant fradulent send in's that would occur? Once a pill with 175 mg's of mdma was identified there would be about another 25 pills all found to contain precisely 175 mg's of mdma...How eerie.

No, the sad reality of the situation is that whole pills will be required to hav their exact specfications and descriptions recorded WITH the test result and it can never be any other way.

This genuinely DOES raise really, really major problems because when I thought about it, Im a BIG advocate of harm reduction - I will talk shit to my friends all day long about, I will even spout off to randoms about why they should be taking 5-htp, im active on as many forums as i am aware exist. There is absolutely no way in HELL that I would send in a bik. Even if my income went up pretty considerably I wouldn't unless I was starting to get some pretty decent money. While even worse for price over here I'm of the understanding that its pretty bloody pricey in Aus. too, and the inescapable logic is if I wouldn't do it, there are few people who would

The only "viable" alternative that I can actually think of is having some pretty decent sponsorship for the testing itself - wouldn't government funding be grand. Then, *gulp*, dare I even say it for risk of sounding like the most deluded idiot ever...police confiscated supplies?>

O COME ON ITS POSSIBLE!
 
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katmeow

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^^^ Or perhaps if you are going out on a night with a a number of friends, you could all chip in a few bucks to buy an extra pill for the purposes of donation.

(Just make sure no-one eats it ;) )
 

Cheshire Cat ^..^

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Cyberdyne said:
There is absolutely no way in HELL that I would send in a bik.
Shame. Talking and writing is nice and everything. But actually sacrificing for the goal is something else.

Anyway, there's a good point. The government won't release detailed specs of every pill. Only the most dangerous ones. But don't they do it already in some countries with confiscated pills? I bet our government already has a full arsenal of every pill on the market and just doesn't want to release any info except an occasional vague press release.
 

fcuking_in_heaven

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I was under the impression that all pills confiscated by the police had to be GC/MS tested to make sure that the active ingredient was a blacklisted chemical.
 

phase_dancer

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I was under the impression that all pills confiscated by the police had to be GC/MS tested to make sure that the active ingredient was a blacklisted chemical.
Yes, if they intend to charge someone with an offence GC/MS is generally the accepted form of analysis used in court. Presumptive or reagent tests are used in some countries by police when they make a bust. If the chemical produces a positive reaction by a kit, then 'off you go to jail' while the substance goes to the lab for further testing.

As I mentioned before, some drugs/chemicals can react in, or be altered by, the conditions of the gas chromatograph, as a typical run involves heat and mixing with gases under pressure (the 2 reactive gases are Hydrogen, Oxygen from air). In these cases, the chemicals may be tested using HPLC or a similar method instead.
 

Cowboy Mac

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Cheshire Cat ^..^ said:
I bet our government already has a full arsenal of every pill on the market and just doesn't want to release any info except an occasional vague press release.
Government forensic departments only have information from seizures, this means there may be pills which are never seen and tested. If Enlighten tests at an event we usually end up with 25 types of individual pills which is an excellent sample of the population at that point in time.
 

Stuart

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are we able to get them to release information on seized pills under the freedom of information act?
as they have no problem releasing information on green Mitzi's to the press..
 

phase_dancer

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are we able to get them to release information on seized pills under the freedom of information act?
No. Police intelligence is just that. While it may be arguable that such information is within the public's interest, police will normally always maintain a right to withhold such information.

As an example: Say police release a report saying tablet X has ingredients Y & Z and was tested from a batch located in Perth. While that may be of considerable advantage to users, and from a deterrent viewpoint even dissuade users from wanting to take tablet X, it may also seriously undermine efforts to catch crime groups associated with the Perth crims caught with the tablets. The interstate associates would effectively be tipped off and likely go into hiding or at least be clean when police arrived at their door.

It's only been in the past 12 months or so that interstate police have been talking of sharing such information between themselves. How far this has come I don't know, but one thing is for sure IMO, police are not going to willingly compromise their advantage for the sake of a few pill heads getting a better (or less worse ) product.

However, perhaps, when medical personnel yell loud enough on a specific issue e.g. green mitzis resulting in unusually high rates of hospital admissions, then they may be compelled (or forced) to release such limited information. But you can be sure of one thing, such info is intended to discourage use. From what I've seen over the past few years, it's rarely if ever a case of caring on behalf of the police - excluding some individuals in related departments - but rather to serve as a bolstered means for authorities to convey just how bad drugs are girls and boys....8)
 

Cheshire Cat ^..^

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Cowboy Mac said:
Government forensic departments only have information from seizures, this means there may be pills which are never seen and tested.
What I meant is that they probably have almost all the pills on the street from seizures. If not from big busts then from unlucky street dealers.

Is this scenario possible? If we campaign for it, can the government decide to start releasing GC/MS information on all the seizured pills? It wouldn't cost them anything, would it?
 

Stuart

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the cost would be in the public eye thinking they are going soft on 'hard drugs' :(
 

phase_dancer

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Is this scenario possible? If we campaign for it, can the government decide to start releasing GC/MS information on all the seizured pills? It wouldn't cost them anything, would it?
Hello! Try reading the preceding posts 8(

The "campaign" never stops. If you really want to do something for the cause, try writing to your local member
 

Cheshire Cat ^..^

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I mean campaigning more.

And, yes, I've read about the "advertisement" problem. But I don't understand how's that a problem for the government at all.
 
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